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About that Carmelo MVP thing...
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Dagger
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2/12/2013  6:50 AM
StarksEwing1 wrote:i like melo and he is in the conversation but he is not even on the same planet of lebron and durant and i hate lebron

Not on the same planet as Kevin Durant? Please don't tell me the espn deificication of durant has blinded you so! Kevin Durant does NOT defend better than melo, gets assists at a slightly higher rate than Melo,shoots jumpshots at a slightly more effificient clip due to his height advantage, does NOT rebound better than Melo, and does not possess the nigh comprehensive repertoire of offensive moves that melo boasts. They are both prolific scorers, with Durant acutely edging melo in fg%. They are far closer to equals than they are "on different levels". To claim that KD is far better than Melo is simply ludicrous.
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jrodmc
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2/12/2013  8:47 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:40yrs of Misery

how can we complain when our G-Men just won 2 of the greatest superbowls ever???

Giants, Yankees, Rangers winning is nice but the Knicks winning would be otherworldy

Damn shame I picked the Knicks to be most passionate about

Tough ain't it? Wonder why you're still here.

NYKMentality
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2/12/2013  8:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2013  9:04 AM
As of right now Melo's ranked 3rd behind both Kevin Durant and LeBron James in regards to the MVP race. Which is something very special to me as a Knicks fan. We've (as a franchise) only featured one league MVP. Willis Reed of 1969-1970.

Carmelo Anthony leading the entire NBA in scoring isn't the only reason in which he's considered to be a strong contender (moving forward) for league MVP either, but also due to the simple fact that no other MVP contender has had to carry his team as much as Melo has thus far through 2012-2013. But yet only 4 NBA teams feature a stronger record when compared to our New York Knicks in whom are being led by Carmelo Anthony.

Not to take anything away from these all-time great players, but to add some perspective...

How many injuries has LeBron had to overcome with Miami?
How many injuries has Durant had to overcome with OKC?
How many injuries has Parker had to overcome with San Antonio?

LeBron James has only been without the likes of Mike Miller for 9 games, Shane Battier for 6 games, Wade for 4 games, Bosh for 3 games, Cole for 2 games, Haslem for 2 games and without Ray Allen for 2 games.

Only 28 games missed in regards to key players for both LeBron and Miami.

Kevin Durant has been without the likes of Reggie Jackson for 12 games, Hasheem Thabeet for 5 games, Serge Ibaka for 2 games, Kevin Martin for 2 games, Thabo Sefolosha for 1 games and without Russell Westbrook for 0 games.

Only 22 games missed in regards to key players for both Durant and Oklahoma City.

Tony Parker has been without the likes of Kawhi Leonard for 19 games, Stephen Jackson for 17 games, DeJuan Blair for 14 games, Manu Ginobili for 13 games, Tim Duncan for 10 games, Matt Bonner for 8 games, Gary Neal for 5 games and without Danny Green for 2 games.

88 games missed in regards to key players for both Parker and San Antonio.

I only ask this question because...

Carmelo Anthony has been without the likes of Iman Shumprt for 37 games, Marcus Camby for 35 games, Amar'e Stoudemire for 30 games, Rasheed Wallace for 29 games, Kurt Thomas for 19 games, Raymond Felton for 12 games, Jason Kidd for 5 games and without Steve Novak for 1 game.

168 games missed in regards to key players for both Carmelo and New York.

You could even combine all of OKC, MIA and SAS's key injuries and it still wouldn't amount to 168. 138 to be exact.

Carmelo Anthony had carried his team like a work horse here in 2012-2013. And I've enjoyed the way he's done so. We're 29-13 during games in which Melo has played. A winning percentage of .690% despite all of our team injuries.

With all that stated, I believe that Ewing's greatest offensive season was back in 1989-1990 (23 years ago). His first (and only) All-NBA First Team selection.

Ewing averaged 28.6 points, 2.9 offensive boards, 2.2 assists and 3.5 turnovers per game (off of .551 shooting from the field). A Free Throw percentage of .775%. Got to the line 7.9 times per game.

Melo's averaging 29.0 points, 1.5 offensive boards, 2.8 assists & 2.7 turnovers per game (off of .454 shooting from the field). A Free Throw percentage of .833%. Getting to the line 7.4 times per game.

I personally believe that Carmelo Anthony's putting up some of the greatest offensive performances we've ever seen/enjoyed as a fan base/franchise. We can always agree to disagree, but there is no question in regards to Carmelo Anthony being our franchise player and/or team leader come game night. I really appreciate the different types of ways that he's held our offense together as our guards have struggled shooting from the field. He leads the entire league in scoring at 29.0 points per game as our Knicks rank 9th in scoring.

It's simply amazing how we now feature a top 3 MVP contender for the first time since Patrick Ewing dating back to Ewing's prime years. Our greatest Knick since Patrick Ewing and it's a remarkable feeling.

fishmike
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2/12/2013  9:02 AM
yea.. but your not a "supporter" of Melo.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
dk7th
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2/12/2013  9:22 AM
durant's usage rate is 29.6 and his team gets assists 20.5% of the time with him on the floor. that ratio is a very low 1.44.
melo's usage rate is 34.3 which is the highest of his career, and the team gets assists 14.4% of the time with him on the floor. that ratio is a very high-- too high really-- 2.38

it basically tells us that durant is the better teammate, a better facilitator. assist totals are... nice-- but don't tell us very much.

durant's TS% which is a measure of efficiency, combining total points/FTA/3ptA, is at 65.4% which is one for the ages.
melo's TS% is 57.2 and regressing as we get further into the season. 56%TS is mediocre, the equivalent of 45-46FG%

it's like comparing bird to wilkins. were they on the same level?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Nalod
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2/12/2013  9:25 AM
NYKMentality wrote:As of right now Melo's ranked 3rd behind both Kevin Durant and LeBron James in regards to the MVP race. Which is something very special to me as a Knicks fan. We've (as a franchise) only featured one league MVP. Willis Reed of 1969-1970.

Carmelo Anthony leading the entire NBA in scoring isn't the only reason in which he's considered to be a strong contender (moving forward) for league MVP either, but also due to the simple fact that no other MVP contender has had to carry his team as much as Melo has thus far through 2012-2013. But yet only 4 NBA teams feature a stronger record when compared to our New York Knicks in whom are being led by Carmelo Anthony.

Not to take anything away from these all-time great players, but to add some perspective...

How many injuries has LeBron had to overcome with Miami?
How many injuries has Durant had to overcome with OKC?
How many injuries has Parker had to overcome with San Antonio?

LeBron James has only been without the likes of Mike Miller for 9 games, Shane Battier for 6 games, Wade for 4 games, Bosh for 3 games, Cole for 2 games, Haslem for 2 games and without Ray Allen for 2 games.

Only 28 games missed in regards to key players for both LeBron and Miami.

Kevin Durant has been without the likes of Reggie Jackson for 12 games, Hasheem Thabeet for 5 games, Serge Ibaka for 2 games, Kevin Martin for 2 games, Thabo Sefolosha for 1 games and without Russell Westbrook for 0 games.

Only 22 games missed in regards to key players for both Durant and Oklahoma City.

Tony Parker has been without the likes of Kawhi Leonard for 19 games, Stephen Jackson for 17 games, DeJuan Blair for 14 games, Manu Ginobili for 13 games, Tim Duncan for 10 games, Matt Bonner for 8 games, Gary Neal for 5 games and without Danny Green for 2 games.

88 games missed in regards to key players for both Parker and San Antonio.

I only ask this question because...

Carmelo Anthony has been without the likes of Iman Shumprt for 37 games, Marcus Camby for 35 games, Amar'e Stoudemire for 30 games, Rasheed Wallace for 29 games, Kurt Thomas for 19 games, Raymond Felton for 12 games, Jason Kidd for 5 games and without Steve Novak for 1 game.

168 games missed in regards to key players for both Carmelo and New York.

You could even combine all of OKC, MIA and SAS's key injuries and it still wouldn't amount to 168. 138 to be exact.

Carmelo Anthony had carried his team like a work horse here in 2012-2013. And I've enjoyed the way he's done so. We're 29-13 during games in which Melo has played. A winning percentage of .690% despite all of our team injuries.

With all that stated, I believe that Ewing's greatest offensive season was back in 1989-1990 (23 years ago). His first (and only) All-NBA First Team selection.

Ewing averaged 28.6 points, 2.9 offensive boards, 2.2 assists and 3.5 turnovers per game (off of .551 shooting from the field). A Free Throw percentage of .775%. Got to the line 7.9 times per game.

Melo's averaging 29.0 points, 1.5 offensive boards, 2.8 assists & 2.7 turnovers per game (off of .454 shooting from the field). A Free Throw percentage of .833%. Getting to the line 7.4 times per game.

I personally believe that Carmelo Anthony's putting up some of the greatest offensive performances we've ever seen/enjoyed as a fan base/franchise. We can always agree to disagree, but there is no question in regards to Carmelo Anthony being our franchise player and/or team leader come game night. I really appreciate the different types of ways that he's held our offense together as our guards have struggled shooting from the field. He leads the entire league in scoring at 29.0 points per game as our Knicks rank 9th in scoring.

It's simply amazing how we now feature a top 3 MVP contender for the first time since Patrick Ewing dating back to Ewing's prime years. Our greatest Knick since Patrick Ewing and it's a remarkable feeling.

KT is bench fodder so him missing games is either a DNP or to fill in because of Camby.
Shump did not miss games, because his season never started. Team had Brewer to fill roster until he was ready. Neither 2013 Shump or 2013 Brewer is as good as 2012 Shump. The team could plan around shumps injury, but not Amare.

Amare was missed as is Camby. Felton missing 12 games was prolematic.

Here is perhaps one missing factor and thats the team usually goes 9 deep in the roster and we are a deep rickety roster so injury is really built in. Sheed has hardley played.

I think your looking "melo fills the defeicentcies" which is partially true but my take is not all games missed create a void.

If your going to use any slant to boster "the greatest knick since ewing" with a narrow focus to justify your cause and get pissed off when not everyone see's it thru the same prism as you then there is nothing we can do but largely ignore your posts. I must admit I have a hard time not reading them as they are so "MoobyIstic"!

If your criteria were to hold up, I'd then have to put Parker over Melo as the pieces he is missing are far more important.

Melo is in the discussion and that alone is a high honor. That I won't deny you!

BRIGGS
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2/12/2013  9:25 AM
raven wrote:After the article I posted on Grantland about Durant's incredible season (), here are a few facts about Lebron's own insane season:


- In the past two decades, only two players have shot 56+ pct from the floor on 18+ attempts per game: Shaq and LeBron.

- LeBron is 20 of 21 FG (95.2 percent) in the first quarter during this 5 game streak of his.

- LeBron is shooting 71.4 FG% over his last five games. Michael Jordan's best FG% over five games? 69.6 FG% back in 1988.

- LeBron has shot at least 50 pct in 17 of his 19 games in 2013. Carmelo has shot 50+ pct in just 16 games this season.

- List of players who can match LeBron in assists per game and 3FG% this season: Steve Nash and Jose Calderon. That's it.

- Last one: LeBron is currently shooting 56 pct from the floor and 42 pct on 100+ threes. No one's ever done that.


So all in all, I'm not a carmelo hater although I don't like him that much either. He's a gifted scorer for sure, but he lacks the ''it'' thing that makes MVPs unique players.

He's a very good player, great even sometimes, but he's flawed and I doubt he'll be able to lead the Knicks to a championship. I really hope he'll prove me wrong though.

Damn I still wish Starks made that Game 6 last 3 point shot...


Carmelo is good enough to win a championship. He needs to stay out of Knick business. He could've taken less like Lebron and WQade did to be a Knick--that is the killer. If he had taken less and we had Danillo Chandler Mosgov Lin this team would be unbeatable. Right now he needs to be quiet on business end of things--the team as comprised is not good enough. The big killers are J Kidd being overused and dropping off substantially (and he is not coming back)the Ronnie Brewer failure and the Camby/Wallace disaster. I cant count Shumpert because I did not expect anything from him this year(although that hurts bad too) but Melo is a guy who can help a team win--he just cant make believe he can score 56 a game to do it.

RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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2/12/2013  9:34 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
raven wrote:After the article I posted on Grantland about Durant's incredible season (), here are a few facts about Lebron's own insane season:


- In the past two decades, only two players have shot 56+ pct from the floor on 18+ attempts per game: Shaq and LeBron.

- LeBron is 20 of 21 FG (95.2 percent) in the first quarter during this 5 game streak of his.

- LeBron is shooting 71.4 FG% over his last five games. Michael Jordan's best FG% over five games? 69.6 FG% back in 1988.

- LeBron has shot at least 50 pct in 17 of his 19 games in 2013. Carmelo has shot 50+ pct in just 16 games this season.

- List of players who can match LeBron in assists per game and 3FG% this season: Steve Nash and Jose Calderon. That's it.

- Last one: LeBron is currently shooting 56 pct from the floor and 42 pct on 100+ threes. No one's ever done that.


So all in all, I'm not a carmelo hater although I don't like him that much either. He's a gifted scorer for sure, but he lacks the ''it'' thing that makes MVPs unique players.

He's a very good player, great even sometimes, but he's flawed and I doubt he'll be able to lead the Knicks to a championship. I really hope he'll prove me wrong though.

Damn I still wish Starks made that Game 6 last 3 point shot...


Carmelo is good enough to win a championship. He needs to stay out of Knick business. He could've taken less like Lebron and WQade did to be a Knick--that is the killer. If he had taken less and we had Danillo Chandler Mosgov Lin this team would be unbeatable. Right now he needs to be quiet on business end of things--the team as comprised is not good enough. The big killers are J Kidd being overused and dropping off substantially (and he is not coming back)the Ronnie Brewer failure and the Camby/Wallace disaster. I cant count Shumpert because I did not expect anything from him this year(although that hurts bad too) but Melo is a guy who can help a team win--he just cant make believe he can score 56 a game to do it.

thats the one Lebron comparison where he really fell short. Taking less money to win puts you in a rare place in sports. People can knock Bron all they want but he took less to make that team better. Melo cost us the money and the players and it still hurts. We got a stud player but are we now stuck in Nuggets land of not being able to improve the team enough to make the trade worth it? Kidd is Mr November. If you look at this roster over all we are getting very little from all these old guys they signed. Kurt, Sheed, Prigo, Kidd, Camby.. After a great start from Kidd this way of going about filling out the roster has yielded nothing
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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2/12/2013  9:48 AM
12 games in Nov Kidd shot 51%...

By Month GP FG%
November 12 .509
December 14 .395
January 12 .382
February 6 .233

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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2/12/2013  9:57 AM
I'd rather have a lower seed and a healthy Kidd in the playoffs. I'd like them to rest him for as long as he needs - whether it's a few games or 6 weeks - and then play him just 10 or 15 mpg in the regular season.
BRIGGS
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2/12/2013  10:01 AM
fishmike wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
raven wrote:After the article I posted on Grantland about Durant's incredible season (), here are a few facts about Lebron's own insane season:


- In the past two decades, only two players have shot 56+ pct from the floor on 18+ attempts per game: Shaq and LeBron.

- LeBron is 20 of 21 FG (95.2 percent) in the first quarter during this 5 game streak of his.

- LeBron is shooting 71.4 FG% over his last five games. Michael Jordan's best FG% over five games? 69.6 FG% back in 1988.

- LeBron has shot at least 50 pct in 17 of his 19 games in 2013. Carmelo has shot 50+ pct in just 16 games this season.

- List of players who can match LeBron in assists per game and 3FG% this season: Steve Nash and Jose Calderon. That's it.

- Last one: LeBron is currently shooting 56 pct from the floor and 42 pct on 100+ threes. No one's ever done that.


So all in all, I'm not a carmelo hater although I don't like him that much either. He's a gifted scorer for sure, but he lacks the ''it'' thing that makes MVPs unique players.

He's a very good player, great even sometimes, but he's flawed and I doubt he'll be able to lead the Knicks to a championship. I really hope he'll prove me wrong though.

Damn I still wish Starks made that Game 6 last 3 point shot...


Carmelo is good enough to win a championship. He needs to stay out of Knick business. He could've taken less like Lebron and WQade did to be a Knick--that is the killer. If he had taken less and we had Danillo Chandler Mosgov Lin this team would be unbeatable. Right now he needs to be quiet on business end of things--the team as comprised is not good enough. The big killers are J Kidd being overused and dropping off substantially (and he is not coming back)the Ronnie Brewer failure and the Camby/Wallace disaster. I cant count Shumpert because I did not expect anything from him this year(although that hurts bad too) but Melo is a guy who can help a team win--he just cant make believe he can score 56 a game to do it.

thats the one Lebron comparison where he really fell short. Taking less money to win puts you in a rare place in sports. People can knock Bron all they want but he took less to make that team better. Melo cost us the money and the players and it still hurts. We got a stud player but are we now stuck in Nuggets land of not being able to improve the team enough to make the trade worth it? Kidd is Mr November. If you look at this roster over all we are getting very little from all these old guys they signed. Kurt, Sheed, Prigo, Kidd, Camby.. After a great start from Kidd this way of going about filling out the roster has yielded nothing

Exactamundo.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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2/12/2013  10:03 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather have a lower seed and a healthy Kidd in the playoffs. I'd like them to rest him for as long as he needs - whether it's a few games or 6 weeks - and then play him just 10 or 15 mpg in the regular season.

Bonn hes done. Ibd be shocked if he plays anywhere near where he did again. Back injuries at 40 are not going away with that kind of stress put on it. Yes he will have a game here or there--in the playoffs its every other night non stop. If we kept him at 16-18 min all year hed be good I believe. Thats what I would shoot for with him. Hes not going to be a 28 minute 10-5-5 guy.

RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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2/12/2013  10:19 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/12/2013  10:20 AM
I would just sit Kidd completely and use him in an emergency. We are an injury to Felton away from a 1st Rd exit. If anything happened we need Kidd fresh
fishmike
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2/12/2013  10:58 AM
gunsnewing wrote:I would just sit Kidd completely and use him in an emergency. We are an injury to Felton away from a 1st Rd exit. If anything happened we need Kidd fresh
bottom line is if Kidd isnt hitting his jumped he is totally useless. He can make a crafty play now and then but mostly it seems because someone fell asleep on Kidd in the first place, and for that to happen he has to lull you to sleep in the first place.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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2/12/2013  11:05 AM
Exactly if the 3 isn't falling he is useless. The only thing he still does well right now is play the passing lanes. Sit Kidd and hope that he if he is called upon, with the extended rest he has his legs to shoot like he did in November

Right now he can barely get off the ground and get a shot off

3G4G
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2/12/2013  11:07 AM
NYKMentality wrote:Not to take anything away from LeBron's potential MVP season


Why do you continue to spew this garbage...? You can't take anything away from a HISTORICAL season! Lebron is making it so you can't.


Think about it If Melo didn't make any game winners this year but was averaging 27ppg, shooting 55-60%fg, 40-45%fg(3pt), while averaging 6ast, 6reb, with the best record in the East no one could take anything away from such a season

3G4G
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2/12/2013  11:08 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:No Tony Parker love. The guy is at 54% and 40% with nearly 8 assists.

Always has been in the Scussin go back and look at the original Carmelo MVP thread I believe started by jhustlaz

3G4G
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2/12/2013  11:12 AM
fishmike wrote:12 games in Nov Kidd shot 51%...

By Month GP FG%
November 12 .509
December 14 .395
January 12 .382
February 6 .233

Remember when very few of us gauged the pulse of this team by what Kidd was doing and ascribed TEAM mvp consideration to him? Well every since his play has dropped off we've looked pretty suspect as a team regardless if Melo drops 40+ or scores 20-25.

dk7th
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2/12/2013  11:34 AM
3G4G wrote:
fishmike wrote:12 games in Nov Kidd shot 51%...

By Month GP FG%
November 12 .509
December 14 .395
January 12 .382
February 6 .233

Remember when very few of us gauged the pulse of this team by what Kidd was doing and ascribed TEAM mvp consideration to him? Well every since his play has dropped off we've looked pretty suspect as a team regardless if Melo drops 40+ or scores 20-25.

yeah i remember that. i remember saying thank god kidd is in the backcourt covering the flaws of ray felton in terms of offensive cohesion. but then woody got desperate and had to play kidd over 30 minutes a game where he was clearly suited to 18 minutes maximum. the strain caught up with kidd and he has not been the same player since. that's what happens when you have an old team... players with skills and BBIQ break down and the team unravels.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
gunsnewing
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2/12/2013  11:41 AM
I really pulled for the Knicks to get Kidd in the offense but I would've never imagine him playing over 20mins nevermind 30. Woodson needs to get his head out of Kidd's ass
About that Carmelo MVP thing...

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