MSG3 wrote:The thing about statistical analysis in Basketball is that for all of these metrics that supposedly measure how good a player is at a particular skill is only as good as how it applies to moments in time. Basketball is a team sport. How well you pass, shoot or defend, statistically speaking, depends on who is on the court with you at different points. This is affected by injuries and coaching decisions based on match-ups.

Statistical analysis for one players performance is much easier in baseball because it really boils down to Hitter vs. Pitcher. And even then there are things that are just starting to be tracked like if a guy hits a line drive right into where the D is positioned.

The point is that you can't solely rely on numbers just like you can't solely rely on watching youtube videos of a guy and saying he's awesome because he can dunk or make a game winning jumper.

statistical analyses are meant to discover trends and patterns. when patterns and trends emerge they emerge from a multitude of different scenarios to give an overall picture of the player.

if this were not the case then compiling the statistics would be meaningless.

baseball statistics are easier to work with but that does not preclude a more fluid, dynamic, and circumstantial sport like basketball from implementing increasingly penetrating statistics to measure a players effectiveness vis a vis winning.

i mean didn't memphis just bring in hollinger as a consultant and trade away rudy gay? seems like validation for the statistical method but we shall see if it pays dividends.

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:The thing about statistical analysis in Basketball is that for all of these metrics that supposedly measure how good a player is at a particular skill is only as good as how it applies to moments in time. Basketball is a team sport. How well you pass, shoot or defend, statistically speaking, depends on who is on the court with you at different points. This is affected by injuries and coaching decisions based on match-ups.

Statistical analysis for one players performance is much easier in baseball because it really boils down to Hitter vs. Pitcher. And even then there are things that are just starting to be tracked like if a guy hits a line drive right into where the D is positioned.

The point is that you can't solely rely on numbers just like you can't solely rely on watching youtube videos of a guy and saying he's awesome because he can dunk or make a game winning jumper.

statistical analyses are meant to discover trends and patterns. when patterns and trends emerge they emerge from a multitude of different scenarios to give an overall picture of the player.

if this were not the case then compiling the statistics would be meaningless.

baseball statistics are easier to work with but that does not preclude a more fluid, dynamic, and circumstantial sport like basketball from implementing increasingly penetrating statistics to measure a players effectiveness vis a vis winning.

i mean didn't memphis just bring in hollinger as a consultant and trade away rudy gay? seems like validation for the statistical method but we shall see if it pays dividends.

If hollinger is behind the Gay trade I think he really messed up. Memphis was a legitimate championship contender. I just don't think you break that up, especially in season. I also really like Speights and I think they made a mistake trading him. Speights always seemed to play well when ZBo was out. That being said, I thought the Speights trade freed up enough cap space so that they could keep Gay.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:The thing about statistical analysis in Basketball is that for all of these metrics that supposedly measure how good a player is at a particular skill is only as good as how it applies to moments in time. Basketball is a team sport. How well you pass, shoot or defend, statistically speaking, depends on who is on the court with you at different points. This is affected by injuries and coaching decisions based on match-ups.

Statistical analysis for one players performance is much easier in baseball because it really boils down to Hitter vs. Pitcher. And even then there are things that are just starting to be tracked like if a guy hits a line drive right into where the D is positioned.

The point is that you can't solely rely on numbers just like you can't solely rely on watching youtube videos of a guy and saying he's awesome because he can dunk or make a game winning jumper.

statistical analyses are meant to discover trends and patterns. when patterns and trends emerge they emerge from a multitude of different scenarios to give an overall picture of the player.

if this were not the case then compiling the statistics would be meaningless.

baseball statistics are easier to work with but that does not preclude a more fluid, dynamic, and circumstantial sport like basketball from implementing increasingly penetrating statistics to measure a players effectiveness vis a vis winning.

i mean didn't memphis just bring in hollinger as a consultant and trade away rudy gay? seems like validation for the statistical method but we shall see if it pays dividends.

If hollinger is behind the Gay trade I think he really messed up. Memphis was a legitimate championship contender. I just don't think you break that up, especially in season. I also really like Speights and I think they made a mistake trading him. Speights always seemed to play well when ZBo was out. That being said, I thought the Speights trade freed up enough cap space so that they could keep Gay.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:The thing about statistical analysis in Basketball is that for all of these metrics that supposedly measure how good a player is at a particular skill is only as good as how it applies to moments in time. Basketball is a team sport. How well you pass, shoot or defend, statistically speaking, depends on who is on the court with you at different points. This is affected by injuries and coaching decisions based on match-ups.

Statistical analysis for one players performance is much easier in baseball because it really boils down to Hitter vs. Pitcher. And even then there are things that are just starting to be tracked like if a guy hits a line drive right into where the D is positioned.

The point is that you can't solely rely on numbers just like you can't solely rely on watching youtube videos of a guy and saying he's awesome because he can dunk or make a game winning jumper.

statistical analyses are meant to discover trends and patterns. when patterns and trends emerge they emerge from a multitude of different scenarios to give an overall picture of the player.

if this were not the case then compiling the statistics would be meaningless.

baseball statistics are easier to work with but that does not preclude a more fluid, dynamic, and circumstantial sport like basketball from implementing increasingly penetrating statistics to measure a players effectiveness vis a vis winning.

i mean didn't memphis just bring in hollinger as a consultant and trade away rudy gay? seems like validation for the statistical method but we shall see if it pays dividends.

If hollinger is behind the Gay trade I think he really messed up. Memphis was a legitimate championship contender. I just don't think you break that up, especially in season. I also really like Speights and I think they made a mistake trading him. Speights always seemed to play well when ZBo was out. That being said, I thought the Speights trade freed up enough cap space so that they could keep Gay.

well we will have to see how far they go in the playoffs. obviously it is going to take the rest of the regular season for them to re-form... unless they catch lighting in a bottle. honestly prince's talents and skills were being squandered in detroit and he could really fit in quickly with a low-post type of squad. he's a good glue guy to have, something that gay wasn't.

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:The thing about statistical analysis in Basketball is that for all of these metrics that supposedly measure how good a player is at a particular skill is only as good as how it applies to moments in time. Basketball is a team sport. How well you pass, shoot or defend, statistically speaking, depends on who is on the court with you at different points. This is affected by injuries and coaching decisions based on match-ups.

Statistical analysis for one players performance is much easier in baseball because it really boils down to Hitter vs. Pitcher. And even then there are things that are just starting to be tracked like if a guy hits a line drive right into where the D is positioned.

The point is that you can't solely rely on numbers just like you can't solely rely on watching youtube videos of a guy and saying he's awesome because he can dunk or make a game winning jumper.

statistical analyses are meant to discover trends and patterns. when patterns and trends emerge they emerge from a multitude of different scenarios to give an overall picture of the player.

if this were not the case then compiling the statistics would be meaningless.

baseball statistics are easier to work with but that does not preclude a more fluid, dynamic, and circumstantial sport like basketball from implementing increasingly penetrating statistics to measure a players effectiveness vis a vis winning.

i mean didn't memphis just bring in hollinger as a consultant and trade away rudy gay? seems like validation for the statistical method but we shall see if it pays dividends.

Some good points, and on Hollinger we'll have to wait and see if that's a validation or not. I mean look at the face of Sabermetrics in sports, the A's. They haven't sniffed a championship. Are they a validaiton?

My point about stats and basketball or even football for that matter is that so much of what gets spit out by these formulas doesn't take into account the other players on the court and how the coach is using everyone on both sides of the ball. You can't look at a certain stat and say "this guys will never be a good passer" or "whenever this guy is on the court, defense is ranked "X", which means this guys sucks at defense". There's more to it then that.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:The thing about statistical analysis in Basketball is that for all of these metrics that supposedly measure how good a player is at a particular skill is only as good as how it applies to moments in time. Basketball is a team sport. How well you pass, shoot or defend, statistically speaking, depends on who is on the court with you at different points. This is affected by injuries and coaching decisions based on match-ups.

Statistical analysis for one players performance is much easier in baseball because it really boils down to Hitter vs. Pitcher. And even then there are things that are just starting to be tracked like if a guy hits a line drive right into where the D is positioned.

The point is that you can't solely rely on numbers just like you can't solely rely on watching youtube videos of a guy and saying he's awesome because he can dunk or make a game winning jumper.

statistical analyses are meant to discover trends and patterns. when patterns and trends emerge they emerge from a multitude of different scenarios to give an overall picture of the player.

if this were not the case then compiling the statistics would be meaningless.

baseball statistics are easier to work with but that does not preclude a more fluid, dynamic, and circumstantial sport like basketball from implementing increasingly penetrating statistics to measure a players effectiveness vis a vis winning.

i mean didn't memphis just bring in hollinger as a consultant and trade away rudy gay? seems like validation for the statistical method but we shall see if it pays dividends.

If hollinger is behind the Gay trade I think he really messed up. Memphis was a legitimate championship contender. I just don't think you break that up, especially in season. I also really like Speights and I think they made a mistake trading him. Speights always seemed to play well when ZBo was out. That being said, I thought the Speights trade freed up enough cap space so that they could keep Gay.

I agree. Only the future will tell, but as far as this season goes? Awful to move Gay mid-season. The Grizzlies were true contenders with Gay leading the offensive way. Before the trade Memphis had a record of 29-13 during games in which Gay played when compared to 0-2 during games in which Gay was out. Since the trade they've gone 2-3 without Gay while only averaging 91 points per game. They've gone from Rudy Gay to Tayshaun Prince as their starting SF and have featured a piss-poor struggling offense since losing Rudy Gay. Losing an elite talent at only 26 years of age is nothing to be happy about if you're currently a Memphis fan. Have now slid to the 5th seed and could slide even further without Gay.