Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:LOL, it's still a dig, why edit it???

*Calculating - Calculating*

Tyson and Kidd are the real MVP's, beep, boop, bop.

Kidd? No, he's a great role player when healthy and Melo is a great scoring specialist. This season has shown me that he can play a much bigger role in a contending team than I realized.
Tyson is our unrecognized franchise player, though - like Ben Wallace was the the Pistons team that supposedly didn't have one.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard Tyson Chandler and franchise player in the same sentence by anyone.

That's because you read only mainstream outlets. If you looked at stuff by sabermetricians (even just to get a balanced set of information), this would not be the first time.

Whew, Thank God Grunwald isn't a sabremetrician then!

You sure about that? Almost every team is hiring them and his judgments seem to coincide very closely with the sabermetrics. I'm actually thinking thank goodness he's probably using the sabermetric rather than the failed eye test approach.

I think the teams that are successful in building championship caliber teams rely on a balanced approach of sabremetrics, intangibles (some might say eye test) and traditional statistics. Yankees, Red Sox, Miami Heat, OKC, etc. are teams that have mastered the balancing act. Teams like the A's, for example, that are forced to not spend money and rely solely on building a team through Sabremetrics are fascinating and reach impressive levels of success, but have never gotten over the hump.

I agree that Grunwald and Woody put a team together aided advanced stats, but would they be close to where they are without Melo and Chandler, two very highly compensated stars? I don't think so. Furthermore, I don't know that experience and not advanced stats was the reason for bringing guys like Kidd, Prigioni, Felton, etc. in.

Tough to call the "eye test" a failure and Sabremetrics proven. Let's see how Hollinger does in Memphis. I actually like the Gay deal for them.

Anji wrote:Not like you Bronn to posting about probably's and Maybe's. Very unmetric thing to do, gotta come with those factoids.

Grunwald adding Rasheed Wallace, Pablo Prigioni, James White, and Chris Copeland have nothing to do with Sabermetrics, because there is no saberemetrics on them. All these signed veterans weren't in the league last year. It's called advanced scouting, dude!

Also, signing Raymond Felton over Jeremy Lin is a Sabermetrician's nightmare. Age, efficiency numbers, advanced statistics etc point to Lin, but reality points to 31-15.

Like I said, thank God Grunwald don't believe in that bullshyt.

ChuckBuck wrote:Eye test is a failure, that's a good one Bonn!

Grunwald adding Rasheed Wallace, Pablo Prigioni, James White, and Chris Copeland have nothing to do with Sabermetrics, because there is no saberemetrics on them. All these signed veterans weren't in the league last year. It's called advanced scouting, dude!

Also, signing Raymond Felton over Jeremy Lin is a Sabermetrician's nightmare. Age, efficiency numbers, advanced statistics etc point to Lin, but reality points to 31-15.

Like I said, thank God Grunwald don't believe in that bullshyt.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Eye test is a failure, that's a good one Bonn!

Grunwald adding Rasheed Wallace, Pablo Prigioni, James White, and Chris Copeland have nothing to do with Sabermetrics, because there is no saberemetrics on them. All these signed veterans weren't in the league last year. It's called advanced scouting, dude!

Also, signing Raymond Felton over Jeremy Lin is a Sabermetrician's nightmare. Age, efficiency numbers, advanced statistics etc point to Lin, but reality points to 31-15.

Like I said, thank God Grunwald don't believe in that bullshyt.

Obviously passing on Lin was Dolan's decision and Felton was an adequate option.
All the other acquisitions either had good advanced stats or were league min experiments (White and Copeland).
The evidence is clear that the eye test is a failure even if you don't like the evidence. How do you explain GMs' cluelessness?

If all these free agents were great sabermetic and advanced stat pickups, why did every GM except our own pass on them? Like the Spurs, it's more about advanced scouting, not just pretty numbers. It's showing and proving your game and worth in front of NBA scouts whether in the D league or overseas. Math can't account for 35 year old Pablo Prigioni. Grunwald's been "eye-ing" him for over 5 years, and it's only now that Pablo's agreed to come.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Anji wrote:Not like you Bronn to posting about probably's and Maybe's. Very unmetric thing to do, gotta come with those factoids.

Probabilities play a central role in the advanced stats actually.

franco12 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I wonder what his rebounding is going to be like the rest of the season. I remember Camby used to be a mediocre rebounder, then one day he just started rebounding like a beast and never looked back (was it around 2000 or 2001?). Obviously he's not going to average 20 rebounds, but it would be great if he could up his averages.

Tyson deserves credit but part of this is due to having sub-par rebounders at most positions on our team. No one else on our team is taking any rebounds away from him.

Who Knows what he will do going forward but here is a post I saw about his rebounding

One thing that bears noting though, is the effect that Amare has had on Tyson’s rebounding. Tyson’s ORB% is 50% higher (21.6) with Amare on the court than when Amare is off it (14.3). Just to put that in perspective, according to B-R, Varejao currently leads (all qualified players in) the NBA in ORB% with a 16.7. I don’t think there’s any question that when Amare is there, the defensive attention he draws helps Tyson crash the boards.

the other thing helping Tyson's offensive rebounds is all the deep threes that this team takes.

Deep 3's usually result in the long rebounds that the guards usually get. What I see is him putting in a commitment that he wasn't showing before. Before going on such a tear, I would get so pissed at seeing a rebound bounce to someone else because Tyson never bothered to jump. If you have earlier games DVR'ed, go back and you'll see it. Too many times he would stand under the rim as if the ball would be magnetically attracted to him. NOW he is TRULY going after every rebound.

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Eye test is a failure, that's a good one Bonn!

Grunwald adding Rasheed Wallace, Pablo Prigioni, James White, and Chris Copeland have nothing to do with Sabermetrics, because there is no saberemetrics on them. All these signed veterans weren't in the league last year. It's called advanced scouting, dude!

Also, signing Raymond Felton over Jeremy Lin is a Sabermetrician's nightmare. Age, efficiency numbers, advanced statistics etc point to Lin, but reality points to 31-15.

Like I said, thank God Grunwald don't believe in that bullshyt.

Obviously passing on Lin was Dolan's decision and Felton was an adequate option.
All the other acquisitions either had good advanced stats or were league min experiments (White and Copeland).
The evidence is clear that the eye test is a failure even if you don't like the evidence. How do you explain GMs' cluelessness?

If all these free agents were great sabermetic and advanced stat pickups, why did every GM except our own pass on them? Like the Spurs, it's more about advanced scouting, not just pretty numbers. It's showing and proving your game and worth in front of NBA scouts whether in the D league or overseas. Math can't account for 35 year old Pablo Prigioni. Grunwald's been "eye-ing" him for over 5 years, and it's only now that Pablo's agreed to come.

There could be any of several explanations for the Spurs. They may be using advanced stats to scout European players. Or they may have just gotten lucky. If, let's say, there's a 50/50 chance that a European player will work out well in the US, just by chance some teams will have a string of several consecutive good Euro-selections - just like you can get heads 5 times in a row flipping a coin. Mlodinow's book on "How Randomness Rules Our Lives" is a great read on the topic (http://www.amazon.com/The-Drunkards-Walk-Randomness-Rules/dp/0307275175/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360150472&sr=8-2&keywords=randomness)

In that case, the Spurs have been getting lucky for 14 years.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Eye test is a failure, that's a good one Bonn!

Grunwald adding Rasheed Wallace, Pablo Prigioni, James White, and Chris Copeland have nothing to do with Sabermetrics, because there is no saberemetrics on them. All these signed veterans weren't in the league last year. It's called advanced scouting, dude!

Also, signing Raymond Felton over Jeremy Lin is a Sabermetrician's nightmare. Age, efficiency numbers, advanced statistics etc point to Lin, but reality points to 31-15.

Like I said, thank God Grunwald don't believe in that bullshyt.

Obviously passing on Lin was Dolan's decision and Felton was an adequate option.
All the other acquisitions either had good advanced stats or were league min experiments (White and Copeland).
The evidence is clear that the eye test is a failure even if you don't like the evidence. How do you explain GMs' cluelessness?

If all these free agents were great sabermetic and advanced stat pickups, why did every GM except our own pass on them? Like the Spurs, it's more about advanced scouting, not just pretty numbers. It's showing and proving your game and worth in front of NBA scouts whether in the D league or overseas. Math can't account for 35 year old Pablo Prigioni. Grunwald's been "eye-ing" him for over 5 years, and it's only now that Pablo's agreed to come.

There could be any of several explanations for the Spurs. They may be using advanced stats to scout European players. Or they may have just gotten lucky. If, let's say, there's a 50/50 chance that a European player will work out well in the US, just by chance some teams will have a string of several consecutive good Euro-selections - just like you can get heads 5 times in a row flipping a coin. Mlodinow's book on "How Randomness Rules Our Lives" is a great read on the topic (http://www.amazon.com/The-Drunkards-Walk-Randomness-Rules/dp/0307275175/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360150472&sr=8-2&keywords=randomness)

In that case, the Spurs have been getting lucky for 14 years.