jrodmc wrote:I find it interesting how some flavor of this stat is always mentioned:
Nuggets are 66-45 (.595) since trading Carmelo Anthony Stat Knicks are 64-47 (.577) since acquiring Carmelo Anthony

...but this one never is:
From 2003-04 to the present, season over season, the
Nuggets were (.591) with Melo and are (.583) without Melo
Knicks were (.387) without Melo and are (.597) with Melo

Now who made out better with the trade?

Stop making sense!!!!

the nuggets are in the tougher conference. memphis, clippers, and the thunder are great but the knicks play them only twice. nuggets have to play the grizzlies 4 times, the thunder 4 times, the clippers 3 times.

the nuggets have played 25 games on the road of their 44 games. 57% of their games on the road.
the nuggets have played a total of 10 b2b this season. 20 of their 44 games are b2b games, 45% of them. they have only 4 b2b remaining of their remaining 38 games.

the knicks have played 20 games on the road of their first 40 games. 50% on the road.
the knicks have played a total of 6 b2b this season. 12 of their first 40 are b2b games, or 30% of them. they have 9 b2b remaining.

the nuggets have had the far more rigorous schedule.

the knicks look to have the rougher schedule although in the weaker of two conferences.

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:some sobering facts worth noting about the nuggets and the knicks:

the nuggets are in the tougher conference. memphis, clippers, and the thunder are great but the knicks play them only twice. nuggets have to play the grizzlies 4 times, the thunder 4 times, the clippers 3 times.

the nuggets have played 25 games on the road of their 44 games. 57% of their games on the road.
the nuggets have played a total of 10 b2b this season. 20 of their 44 games are b2b games, 45% of them. they have only 4 b2b remaining of their remaining 38 games.

the knicks have played 20 games on the road of their first 40 games. 50% on the road.
the knicks have played a total of 6 b2b this season. 12 of their first 40 are b2b games, or 30% of them. they have 9 b2b remaining.

the nuggets have had the far more rigorous schedule.

the knicks look to have the rougher schedule although in the weaker of two conferences.

When you factor in strength of schedule, the teams have played about equally well. ESPN's Power Rankings have them at 7 and 8

yes this was the sense i got as well.

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:some sobering facts worth noting about the nuggets and the knicks:

the nuggets are in the tougher conference. memphis, clippers, and the thunder are great but the knicks play them only twice. nuggets have to play the grizzlies 4 times, the thunder 4 times, the clippers 3 times.

the nuggets have played 25 games on the road of their 44 games. 57% of their games on the road.
the nuggets have played a total of 10 b2b this season. 20 of their 44 games are b2b games, 45% of them. they have only 4 b2b remaining of their remaining 38 games.

the knicks have played 20 games on the road of their first 40 games. 50% on the road.
the knicks have played a total of 6 b2b this season. 12 of their first 40 are b2b games, or 30% of them. they have 9 b2b remaining.

the nuggets have had the far more rigorous schedule.

the knicks look to have the rougher schedule although in the weaker of two conferences.

When you factor in strength of schedule, the teams have played about equally well. ESPN's Power Rankings have them at 7 and 8

yes this was the sense i got as well.

Not if you've been following it from week-to-week. Knicks recently crept into the Top 10 SOS, they've been middle of the pack for the majority of the season.

Of course over time things may balance out some but Denver has been Top 10 all season with SOS...Top 5 most weeks.

yellowboy90 wrote:NOw you can use the tougher conference out. Cool so it is fair when Melo fans used that same out to explain his playoff failures?

Everything can be turned on its head. This debate is so dumb. WIth or without Melo. With Melo teammates shoot better without him on the floor they shoot worst. Go figure. Who really cares anymore?

Your regular season schedule success and playoff success(or lack thereof) are 2 different arguments. No one said Melo didn't do a good job on a regular season Denver team but you can't aspire too much credit to him for such accomplishment.

We can do this all day...If you want to say Melo was a beast in Denver during the regular season then why did he fail in the Post-Season? If you say it was because of the team he had well they were the same teammates that were there during the regular season success right?

I think what's being discussed here, why hasn't Denver fallen off if they lost such a huge talent and didn't acquire any worthwhile in return. What's the reason for their success now. Who and what do you give credit to? I've always maintained it's George Karl.

nuggets are not in win-now and will continue to improve. knicks are in win-now and don't have the wherewithal to improve.

apparently the argument is that, post-trade, denver now has no go-to alpha closer superstar whereas the knicks do. therefore the knicks are going to be more successful not only in the regular season but especially in the playoffs when such a go-to alpha closer superstar is necessary.

the issue is if melo is not a true difference maker he is at least a better player than anyone the knicks traded.

even if that is true... BFD

In the end they are about the same.

We got better.

Its not really about Melo its about how we got Tyson that made the difference. For denver its not about the assets directly they got from us.

Its about the little things that add up. For them trading felton for Andre. For us getting him as a free agent. For them Resigning NENE then able to bail on him. FOr us Tyson. For them moving Faried to starter.. For us getting JR. Etc etc.

ITs not about Gallo vs. Melo. its about complimentary pieces.

Its not important who won the trade, its about knicks winning. Period.

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:some sobering facts worth noting about the nuggets and the knicks:

the nuggets are in the tougher conference. memphis, clippers, and the thunder are great but the knicks play them only twice. nuggets have to play the grizzlies 4 times, the thunder 4 times, the clippers 3 times.

the nuggets have played 25 games on the road of their 44 games. 57% of their games on the road.
the nuggets have played a total of 10 b2b this season. 20 of their 44 games are b2b games, 45% of them. they have only 4 b2b remaining of their remaining 38 games.

the knicks have played 20 games on the road of their first 40 games. 50% on the road.
the knicks have played a total of 6 b2b this season. 12 of their first 40 are b2b games, or 30% of them. they have 9 b2b remaining.

the nuggets have had the far more rigorous schedule.

the knicks look to have the rougher schedule although in the weaker of two conferences.

When you factor in strength of schedule, the teams have played about equally well. ESPN's Power Rankings have them at 7 and 8

yes this was the sense i got as well.

Not if you've been following it from week-to-week. Knicks recently crept into the Top 10 SOS, they've been middle of the pack for the majority of the season.

Of course over time things may balance out some but Denver has been Top 10 all season with SOS...Top 5 most weeks.

yellowboy90 wrote:NOw you can use the tougher conference out. Cool so it is fair when Melo fans used that same out to explain his playoff failures?

Everything can be turned on its head. This debate is so dumb. WIth or without Melo. With Melo teammates shoot better without him on the floor they shoot worst. Go figure. Who really cares anymore?

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:some sobering facts worth noting about the nuggets and the knicks:

the nuggets are in the tougher conference. memphis, clippers, and the thunder are great but the knicks play them only twice. nuggets have to play the grizzlies 4 times, the thunder 4 times, the clippers 3 times.

the nuggets have played 25 games on the road of their 44 games. 57% of their games on the road.
the nuggets have played a total of 10 b2b this season. 20 of their 44 games are b2b games, 45% of them. they have only 4 b2b remaining of their remaining 38 games.

the knicks have played 20 games on the road of their first 40 games. 50% on the road.
the knicks have played a total of 6 b2b this season. 12 of their first 40 are b2b games, or 30% of them. they have 9 b2b remaining.

the nuggets have had the far more rigorous schedule.

the knicks look to have the rougher schedule although in the weaker of two conferences.

When you factor in strength of schedule, the teams have played about equally well. ESPN's Power Rankings have them at 7 and 8

yes this was the sense i got as well.

Not if you've been following it from week-to-week. Knicks recently crept into the Top 10 SOS, they've been middle of the pack for the majority of the season.

Of course over time things may balance out some but Denver has been Top 10 all season with SOS...Top 5 most weeks.

What do you mean? Their SOS is still sub .500.

My bad I was looking at RPI and not SOS as I've posted the SOS link here several times. I actually was trying to give the team brownie pts in a back handed kind of way and yet the team still fails along with me....lol

Point proven as I was agreeing with both of you.... Denver has had the tougher go all season long and it's not debatable. Denver is still Top 5 in SOS and I know for a fact they've been Top 5 for at least 4 weeks straight.

Good catch Bonn

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

dk7th wrote:denver got younger and deeper and the knicks got older-- a lot older-- and deeper.

nuggets are not in win-now and will continue to improve. knicks are in win-now and don't have the wherewithal to improve.

apparently the argument is that, post-trade, denver now has no go-to alpha closer superstar whereas the knicks do. therefore the knicks are going to be more successful not only in the regular season but especially in the playoffs when such a go-to alpha closer superstar is necessary.

the issue is if melo is not a true difference maker he is at least a better player than anyone the knicks traded.

even if that is true... BFD

How do you know they will continue to improve? Maybe they will continue to make trades to stay a 5-8 seed without any hope of ever going far in the playoffs. How many times will they over pay then trade? Over pay then trade. THe smarter thing for them would be to build in the draft or get in the Love sweepstakes although he may not be a team changing player although coupled with the right pieces he can be more valuable. I see Love being like Chris Bosh but better.

they will get better with the players they have. it remains to be seen how wise it was to trade for iguodala since afflalo is a pretty solid player. maybe iguodala will figure it out. but they have solid young players at each position and are pretty much two deep. karl prefers young legs and ball movement. stamina is important in a marathon season.

my point is that they are all going to continue to mature individually while learning each other's tendencies over the next couple of years. that's one way of how you build a legitimate contender. if not then of course trades are warranted but it is too early to tell.

the knicks simply do not have time on their side given this roster.

See it's tweaking to make a deep run and tweaking to just continue to be a low seed. Pace and statistic favored them against L.A. last year but yet they still lost. You think they will grow overtime but it is more likely they will make another trade like the Nene one or the Affalo one. They will probably eventually move on from Lawson not wanting to pay big for someone of his size a defensive ability. Who knows its a wait and see thing.

Right. Building and tooling and tweaking with lots of 1st and 2nd rounders that will be where in the draft since the Nuggs will most likely continue to not be a lottery team?

I forget, who was the last unstarphucqued team to win a chip?

I love arguments that build on forum poster's innate need to play realgm for all eternity.

I wish I had the ambition or cared enough to go back to through the Walshian era of UK posts to see if any of the Somberites ever complained about the rebuilding/retooling/cap space/lottery draft pick period while it was occurring here.