CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:I love STAT but on this one he's a liar. He most certainly has been taught defense over his long career. 2 more coaches that people forget he had were Johnson and Marc Iavaroni, who was the respected defensive assistant in PHX. As was mentioned Porter was brought in to focus on D and Gentry tried to get the team to improve on D. MDA had his issues with STAT based on STAT's poor D.

Stoudemire and D'Antoni have had their differences, both privately and publicly. Stoudemire was the lone Suns player to show no disappointment about D'Antoni's departure from Phoenix in 2008; he had bristled at D'Antoni's criticism of his defensive deficiencies, mainly on help defense, which led to troublesome breakdowns. Stoudemire often deflected the blame back on D'Antoni for not putting enough time into coaching defense, which touches a nerve for D'Antoni.

The Suns were better defensively when STAT was out of the lineup and KT was the Center.

True, the Suns will never be mentioned in the same breath with Detroit and San Antonio when it comes to physical, in-your-face, shut-down defense. You can't lead the league in scoring and be a steel trap on the other end. But before Kurt Thomas went down with a foot injury in late February, the Suns ranked 10th in the NBA in field-goal-percentage-against (44 percent) and were allowing just over 100 points (100.2) per game. With Thomas out and Boris Diaw forced to play center 40 minutes a night, opponents shot 47.8 percent, scored 107.6 points and the scales were tipped. With Thomas and Amar'e Stoudemire back to bolster the inside and the addition of Marcus Banks to the backcourt, can the Sun's defense be at least good enough to quiet critics who feel it will always be the chasm that keeps them from a championship? We're better on defense than you guys think, and now we have to turn it up one more notch, be one level better, D'Antoni said. If we get a little better on defense and keep the same offensive output, we should be better.

Does that sound like a coach that isn't interested in defense? MDA had better success when he could put Jared on the floor to help cover up for Amar'e. Funny how almost every other big we had seemed to know what to do on D and somehow STAT has been ignored by all his coaches for a decade?

Amare has played in 642 regular season games. His coach in 527 of those was Mike D'Antoni. Not sure how you can care that much about defense when your players in Phoenix reported that you sometimes practiced for up to 45 minutes. Amare needs to take responsibility for his play on the court. However, he didn't play for a guy that taught defense for his almost his entire career and he came out of high school straight to the nba. D'Antoni definitely played a part in stunting Amare's development as a defensive player.

Why are you focusing on games played as if that's the only measure of how much work a coach puts in with his players. There were other coaches who had STAT in their Camps besides MDA and in those camps he had assistant coaches who were their to help with the defense as well as the head coach. In the Training Camp is where a coach really gets to work on the defensive principles the team will run and get to spend time with players on the details.

2002-03 camp was with Frank Johnson 
2003-04 camp was with Frank Johnson
2004-05 camp was with D'Antoni's with Marc Ivaroni defensive assistant
2005-06 Amar'e had his surgery and missed most of the season  
2006-07 camp was with MDA and Dan D'Antoni
2007-08 camp was with MDA and Dan
2008-09 camp was with Terry Porter
2009-10 camp was with Alvin Gentry
2010-11 camp was with MDA and Dan
2011-12 camp was with MDA and Woody
2012-13 camp was with Woody

It's clear that Amar'e is indicting quite a few coaches when saying he was NEVER taught defense!!!

I think he is talking about a head coach whose mantra is defense. But yeah some of it is on him. As far as who D'Antoni's assistants were I don't give that a lot of weight. In Phoenix Grant Hill said sometimes the team even practiced for 45 minutes. When he was in NY his teams came out of camp and struggled for 12-15 games. Not sure what happened in his camps but I doubt a lot was being done with defense.

Let me just say this. For a big man there really isn't a lot of difficult stuff to learn. For the most part it starts with EFFORT!!! You have to learn how to guard the PnR, which i'm telling you there's no way in hell that he was never taught that over all these years. If so then why is it that every other big that MDA had they seem to have learned how to play the defensive scheme just fine. For example Jared and KT both understood how MDA wanted them to defend the middle. The only one who never seemed to learn it was Amar'e.

Also this nonsense about short practices is just dumb. Once a season starts and a team plays as fast as the Suns did then a coach may decide not to have grueling or long practices. Let's not make it seem like his teams weren't prepared when they avg'd 58 wins a year and got to the WCF's twice. That's just being biased against the guy for succeeding.

In the fourth quarter, things didn't get much better. The Lakers lost the quarter 27-30. The Lakers trailed by as many as 15 points, and they rarely were able to get the deficit within single digits. Unable to slow down the Nuggets in a similar fashion to the Warriors and Knicks games, the Lakers lost 114-126.

Following the game, defense was a main theme from the post-game reporters.

Coach D'Antoni was the first to respond. When given a followup question regarding the offensive rebounds and defensive woes, D'Antoni was asked, "Was that a hustle thing or positioning thing, or a little bit of both?"

D'Antoni bluntly stated, "You'd have to ask them, I don't know. Whatever it was, we didn't come off the ball, and they did. Somebody did something, and we didn't do it."

D'Antoni's statement definitely seems to come off as a shot at his players. He deflects any personal blame by stating, "You'd have to ask them," and he doesn't offer any sort of schematic explanation as for why the woes occurred. Obviously, D'Antoni was not pleased with the effort of his squad.

Next up was the most interesting post-game response. Howard was asked, "We've been talking about this all season, the area of defense, what was plaguing you guys tonight on that end?"

Howard responded, "The pick and roll defense wasn't great tonight. The help wasn't there, the help the helper wasn't there. It just has to be better overall."

Another reporter followed up, "Those are things you have talked about a lot of times this season, what's the learning curve going on in regards to that?"

Howard replied, "Those guys gotta be in the right spots, and they have to be taught it. It has to be something that you practice on, so guys can understand [what] they have to go through. You can't just talk about defense, and talk about where to go, you actually gotta show guys where to go."

CrushAlot wrote:This was on a Laker's board after the loss to Denver last week when the Lakers gave up 126 points to the Nuggets.

In the fourth quarter, things didn't get much better. The Lakers lost the quarter 27-30. The Lakers trailed by as many as 15 points, and they rarely were able to get the deficit within single digits. Unable to slow down the Nuggets in a similar fashion to the Warriors and Knicks games, the Lakers lost 114-126.

Following the game, defense was a main theme from the post-game reporters.

Coach D'Antoni was the first to respond. When given a followup question regarding the offensive rebounds and defensive woes, D'Antoni was asked, "Was that a hustle thing or positioning thing, or a little bit of both?"

D'Antoni bluntly stated, "You'd have to ask them, I don't know. Whatever it was, we didn't come off the ball, and they did. Somebody did something, and we didn't do it."

D'Antoni's statement definitely seems to come off as a shot at his players. He deflects any personal blame by stating, "You'd have to ask them," and he doesn't offer any sort of schematic explanation as for why the woes occurred. Obviously, D'Antoni was not pleased with the effort of his squad.

Next up was the most interesting post-game response. Howard was asked, "We've been talking about this all season, the area of defense, what was plaguing you guys tonight on that end?"

Howard responded, "The pick and roll defense wasn't great tonight. The help wasn't there, the help the helper wasn't there. It just has to be better overall."

Another reporter followed up, "Those are things you have talked about a lot of times this season, what's the learning curve going on in regards to that?"

Howard replied, "Those guys gotta be in the right spots, and they have to be taught it. It has to be something that you practice on, so guys can understand [what] they have to go through. You can't just talk about defense, and talk about where to go, you actually gotta show guys where to go."

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nba/dwight-howard-right-criticize-lakers-mike-dantoni-lack-defensive-focus
Dan is in LA and sitting on the bench not behind it right?

Have you watched all the Laker games. I have and I can tell you that Howard shouldn't be talking. He doesn't give great effort on D and he's not talking or leading in any way on D. He really shouldn't talk about D and who isn't being taught. He certainly knows what should be done given that he had a great defensive coach for years and yet I've seen nothing from him in that regard.

I've watched Lakers games and I see them actually execute proper rotations before. Players failure to be consistent can have a lot of reasons, but let's remember that MDA didn't have camp with this roster so he's been at a disadvantage in terms of being able to have time to really work with this team on everything he may want to do. Still they had a training camp and coaches before MDA got there and the basic defensive principles were already installed by Mike Brown a noted defensive coach so what's the excuse there???

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:This was on a Laker's board after the loss to Denver last week when the Lakers gave up 126 points to the Nuggets.

In the fourth quarter, things didn't get much better. The Lakers lost the quarter 27-30. The Lakers trailed by as many as 15 points, and they rarely were able to get the deficit within single digits. Unable to slow down the Nuggets in a similar fashion to the Warriors and Knicks games, the Lakers lost 114-126.

Following the game, defense was a main theme from the post-game reporters.

Coach D'Antoni was the first to respond. When given a followup question regarding the offensive rebounds and defensive woes, D'Antoni was asked, "Was that a hustle thing or positioning thing, or a little bit of both?"

D'Antoni bluntly stated, "You'd have to ask them, I don't know. Whatever it was, we didn't come off the ball, and they did. Somebody did something, and we didn't do it."

D'Antoni's statement definitely seems to come off as a shot at his players. He deflects any personal blame by stating, "You'd have to ask them," and he doesn't offer any sort of schematic explanation as for why the woes occurred. Obviously, D'Antoni was not pleased with the effort of his squad.

Next up was the most interesting post-game response. Howard was asked, "We've been talking about this all season, the area of defense, what was plaguing you guys tonight on that end?"

Howard responded, "The pick and roll defense wasn't great tonight. The help wasn't there, the help the helper wasn't there. It just has to be better overall."

Another reporter followed up, "Those are things you have talked about a lot of times this season, what's the learning curve going on in regards to that?"

Howard replied, "Those guys gotta be in the right spots, and they have to be taught it. It has to be something that you practice on, so guys can understand [what] they have to go through. You can't just talk about defense, and talk about where to go, you actually gotta show guys where to go."

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nba/dwight-howard-right-criticize-lakers-mike-dantoni-lack-defensive-focus
Dan is in LA and sitting on the bench not behind it right?

Have you watched all the Laker games. I have and I can tell you that Howard shouldn't be talking. He doesn't give great effort on D and he's not talking or leading in any way on D. He really shouldn't talk about D and who isn't being taught. He certainly knows what should be done given that he had a great defensive coach for years and yet I've seen nothing from him in that regard.

I've watched Lakers games and I see them actually execute proper rotations before. Players failure to be consistent can have a lot of reasons, but let's remember that MDA didn't have camp with this roster so he's been at a disadvantage in terms of being able to have time to really work with this team on everything he may want to do. Still they had a training camp and coaches before MDA got there and the basic defensive principles were already installed by Mike Brown a noted defensive coach so what's the excuse there???

nixluva wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:^^^^
He only averaged 30 wins in NY...Just saying...

So what's the point to this comment? Do you ignore the years of winning just cuz he had a bad team in NY for a couple of years? There's no doubt that if the team wasn't trying to merely clear cap and was actually trying to improve the team over the 1st 2 years that MDA's record would likely have been better, but that wasn't the plan.

Now back to what the actual point of the thread is, Amar'e can't use MDA as the scapegoat for his lack of effort or interest in learning his role on D. Mostly it's about effort and you know that. You try to stop guys from getting to the basket and that means you have to move and get your hands up and box out. It's not rocket science.

as a knick fan ya. how did it help the knicks what he did with nash in phx? all the mitigation aside, it was a brutal run in ny, do you really expect folks to look back on that with glory? same goes for IT or any bits of the past decade plus.

however, ill agree, amare has had plenty of time to learn defense regardless of who was the coach. if woodson was the "d coordinator", amare wasnt listening much then either if he is still selling the "no one taught me" stuff.

Amar'e has always shifted blame on this and that's been the problem from day one. The Suns had some good defensive players, but he was the anchor of that defense. Now given what you've seen from him do you think he was a good defensive anchor for those Suns teams? IMO if they had a player like Tyson they might have won a title. Amar'e was that bad on Defense and you know that he's horrible cuz you've seen it here with your own eyes.

As for MDA i'll just say that when he has had talent he's been able to win more than lose and most particularly when he at least has a decent PG to run the team. MOST coaches need talent in order to win or do you think coaches just will their bad teams to win regardless. Those NY teams weren't that good. Perhaps some coach out there might have gotten more out of those teams, but they were not built to win. Those teams were built to be torn down for 2010.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:^^^^
He only averaged 30 wins in NY...Just saying...

So what's the point to this comment? Do you ignore the years of winning just cuz he had a bad team in NY for a couple of years? There's no doubt that if the team wasn't trying to merely clear cap and was actually trying to improve the team over the 1st 2 years that MDA's record would likely have been better, but that wasn't the plan.

Now back to what the actual point of the thread is, Amar'e can't use MDA as the scapegoat for his lack of effort or interest in learning his role on D. Mostly it's about effort and you know that. You try to stop guys from getting to the basket and that means you have to move and get your hands up and box out. It's not rocket science.

as a knick fan ya. how did it help the knicks what he did with nash in phx? all the mitigation aside, it was a brutal run in ny, do you really expect folks to look back on that with glory? same goes for IT or any bits of the past decade plus.

however, ill agree, amare has had plenty of time to learn defense regardless of who was the coach. if woodson was the "d coordinator", amare wasnt listening much then either if he is still selling the "no one taught me" stuff.

Amar'e has always shifted blame on this and that's been the problem from day one. The Suns had some good defensive players, but he was the anchor of that defense. Now given what you've seen from him do you think he was a good defensive anchor for those Suns teams? IMO if they had a player like Tyson they might have won a title. Amar'e was that bad on Defense and you know that he's horrible cuz you've seen it here with your own eyes.

As for MDA i'll just say that when he has had talent he's been able to win more than lose and most particularly when he at least has a decent PG to run the team. MOST coaches need talent in order to win or do you think coaches just will their bad teams to win regardless. Those NY teams weren't that good. Perhaps some coach out there might have gotten more out of those teams, but they were not built to win. Those teams were built to be torn down for 2010.

Both guys won at a very high rate when there was a ton of talent and Nast at the point.

You and a lot of people say that the Suns had a ton of talent but that's not true. They weren't very deep teams and they were mostly small teams. Many of the players on those teams weren't having great careers before getting there. Also let's not forget that as good as Nash was, he wasn't even close to being considered for MVP level until he got with MDA. I know it's popular to just give all the credit to Nash, but Nash also doesn't look like Nash when he was playing in different systems, so both Nash and MDA benefited from their pairing but it was MDA's system that allowed Nash and lesser players to shine as they did and do in his system even without Nash running the point.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:This was on a Laker's board after the loss to Denver last week when the Lakers gave up 126 points to the Nuggets.

In the fourth quarter, things didn't get much better. The Lakers lost the quarter 27-30. The Lakers trailed by as many as 15 points, and they rarely were able to get the deficit within single digits. Unable to slow down the Nuggets in a similar fashion to the Warriors and Knicks games, the Lakers lost 114-126.

Following the game, defense was a main theme from the post-game reporters.

Coach D'Antoni was the first to respond. When given a followup question regarding the offensive rebounds and defensive woes, D'Antoni was asked, "Was that a hustle thing or positioning thing, or a little bit of both?"

D'Antoni bluntly stated, "You'd have to ask them, I don't know. Whatever it was, we didn't come off the ball, and they did. Somebody did something, and we didn't do it."

D'Antoni's statement definitely seems to come off as a shot at his players. He deflects any personal blame by stating, "You'd have to ask them," and he doesn't offer any sort of schematic explanation as for why the woes occurred. Obviously, D'Antoni was not pleased with the effort of his squad.

Next up was the most interesting post-game response. Howard was asked, "We've been talking about this all season, the area of defense, what was plaguing you guys tonight on that end?"

Howard responded, "The pick and roll defense wasn't great tonight. The help wasn't there, the help the helper wasn't there. It just has to be better overall."

Another reporter followed up, "Those are things you have talked about a lot of times this season, what's the learning curve going on in regards to that?"

Howard replied, "Those guys gotta be in the right spots, and they have to be taught it. It has to be something that you practice on, so guys can understand [what] they have to go through. You can't just talk about defense, and talk about where to go, you actually gotta show guys where to go."

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nba/dwight-howard-right-criticize-lakers-mike-dantoni-lack-defensive-focus
Dan is in LA and sitting on the bench not behind it right?

Have you watched all the Laker games. I have and I can tell you that Howard shouldn't be talking. He doesn't give great effort on D and he's not talking or leading in any way on D. He really shouldn't talk about D and who isn't being taught. He certainly knows what should be done given that he had a great defensive coach for years and yet I've seen nothing from him in that regard.

I've watched Lakers games and I see them actually execute proper rotations before. Players failure to be consistent can have a lot of reasons, but let's remember that MDA didn't have camp with this roster so he's been at a disadvantage in terms of being able to have time to really work with this team on everything he may want to do. Still they had a training camp and coaches before MDA got there and the basic defensive principles were already installed by Mike Brown a noted defensive coach so what's the excuse there???

I hate the Lakers and honestly followed them only casually before Mike got hired but I didn't think Howard participated in training camp. Was he able to play at all? I am pretty sure he missed at least some of the exhibition games but again I was only following causally.

We all know D'Antoni doesn't much care about defense- even Phil Weber said back in the Suns days he used to have to try to persuade him to pay some attention to defense, but D'Antoni use to insist it wasn't necessary because they were winning with offense.

CrushAlot wrote:This was on a Laker's board after the loss to Denver last week when the Lakers gave up 126 points to the Nuggets.

In the fourth quarter, things didn't get much better. The Lakers lost the quarter 27-30. The Lakers trailed by as many as 15 points, and they rarely were able to get the deficit within single digits. Unable to slow down the Nuggets in a similar fashion to the Warriors and Knicks games, the Lakers lost 114-126.

Following the game, defense was a main theme from the post-game reporters.

Coach D'Antoni was the first to respond. When given a followup question regarding the offensive rebounds and defensive woes, D'Antoni was asked, "Was that a hustle thing or positioning thing, or a little bit of both?"

D'Antoni bluntly stated, "You'd have to ask them, I don't know. Whatever it was, we didn't come off the ball, and they did. Somebody did something, and we didn't do it."

D'Antoni's statement definitely seems to come off as a shot at his players. He deflects any personal blame by stating, "You'd have to ask them," and he doesn't offer any sort of schematic explanation as for why the woes occurred. Obviously, D'Antoni was not pleased with the effort of his squad.

Next up was the most interesting post-game response. Howard was asked, "We've been talking about this all season, the area of defense, what was plaguing you guys tonight on that end?"

Howard responded, "The pick and roll defense wasn't great tonight. The help wasn't there, the help the helper wasn't there. It just has to be better overall."

Another reporter followed up, "Those are things you have talked about a lot of times this season, what's the learning curve going on in regards to that?"

Howard replied, "Those guys gotta be in the right spots, and they have to be taught it. It has to be something that you practice on, so guys can understand [what] they have to go through. You can't just talk about defense, and talk about where to go, you actually gotta show guys where to go."

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nba/dwight-howard-right-criticize-lakers-mike-dantoni-lack-defensive-focus
Dan is in LA and sitting on the bench not behind it right?

Howard was use to Stan Vangundy drilling that emphasis on defense in his head over and over or where to be. Danphoney just talks about it.