Nalod wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Losing is "acceptable" to the Knicks? Why, because you say so? Who's your source?

You have the slightest idea how much these guys wanna win. You have the slightest idea the burning desire these guys have inside of their heart. You don't have a clue what it takes to prepare for an NBA game both physically and mentally.

But yet, I'm supposed to take your word (of all people) because you've actually gone out of your way in order to create a thread on how losing is "acceptable" to these Knicks? Grain of salt; I'll agree to disagree and ignore this thread moving forward. Thanks for the update and/or info about our loveable losers in which accept losing on a nightly basis.

You don't even have a clue what these players and coaches talk about during trips to and from the Garden after loses...

For someone who makes a ton of assumptions himself im surprised by your response.

Your also assuming you do know what these players and coaches talk about.

I think the thread meant to discuss the on court language of what we see, not the inner sanctum of thought you seem to have privy to.

If I were going to guess, and its just a guess, I'd say JR smith is more worried about his next contract than "winning". Woodson is worried about winning. Melo is worried that if we don't win his legacy will deteriorate. Amare is worried about his career and being "prideful". Winning makes it all good. JR is allowing Woodson to mentor him because he needs to get paid. I'd worry about JR if we sign him long term.

Winning is important no doubt thru the organization. Winning is also about revenue.

We all tell fables about the team.

You do it as much as anyone. Just understand if a man offers his opinion its just that. If you speak as if your "in the know", thats a bit presumptuous.

Nalod wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:Losing is "acceptable" to the Knicks? Why, because you say so? Who's your source?

You have the slightest idea how much these guys wanna win. You have the slightest idea the burning desire these guys have inside of their heart. You don't have a clue what it takes to prepare for an NBA game both physically and mentally.

But yet, I'm supposed to take your word (of all people) because you've actually gone out of your way in order to create a thread on how losing is "acceptable" to these Knicks? Grain of salt; I'll agree to disagree and ignore this thread moving forward. Thanks for the update and/or info about our loveable losers in which accept losing on a nightly basis.

You don't even have a clue what these players and coaches talk about during trips to and from the Garden after loses...

For someone who makes a ton of assumptions himself im surprised by your response.

Your also assuming you do know what these players and coaches talk about.

I think the thread meant to discuss the on court language of what we see, not the inner sanctum of thought you seem to have privy to.

If I were going to guess, and its just a guess, I'd say JR smith is more worried about his next contract than "winning". Woodson is worried about winning. Melo is worried that if we don't win his legacy will deteriorate. Amare is worried about his career and being "prideful". Winning makes it all good. JR is allowing Woodson to mentor him because he needs to get paid. I'd worry about JR if we sign him long term.

Winning is important no doubt thru the organization. Winning is also about revenue.

We all tell fables about the team.

You do it as much as anyone. Just understand if a man offers his opinion its just that. If you speak as if your "in the know", thats a bit presumptuous.

In regards to J.R Smith, he gives it his all each and every game and has nothing to do with playing for his next contract. He took less, to win here instead of losing with another team in which could've offered a larger contract. J.R Smith throws his body into the line of fire each and every game, plays with reckless abandon as pure energ and heart. Anyone who's followed J.R's career over the years understands this man plays with a natural love for the game. In regards to Melo? He loves to win. National championship with Syracuse and led his Denver franchise to the postseason eacn and every year. The same is happening in New York. But now, he's worried his "legacy will deteriorate".

I may agree to disagree in regards to the game of basketball but as a fan, would never state something as clueless as "Losing is "acceptable" to the Knicks". 19-7 says hello. Sounds like a bunch of winners who give it their all to me.

And please show me a quote of J.R Smith stating "he's only playing hard for his coach for his next contract". When in all actual reality, he's playing hard because he's always played with his all regarldess of his shot selection from time to time. Just because J.R and others respect Woodson's coaching style and/or his personality as a man doesn't mean it's due to a "contract". Also, in regards to Melo, he's dreamed of WINNING for New York City dating back to his CHILDHOOD days.

JR Smith, 2 year 2.8m+ with PO

Players that have similar skill sets as JR Smith and are quite comparable *prior to the start of this year*
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mayo only got 4m, 2 year with PO

Terry 5m, 3 years

Brandon Rush 4m, 2 years with PO

not as similar but can be comparable with position, roles, production, or stats
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Randy Foye 2.5m, 1 year
Shannon Brown 3.5m, 2 year

Hinrich 4m, 2 year
Sessions 5m 2 years
Carlos Delfino 3m, 2 year Team Option

Billups 4m, 1 year
Belinelli 2m, 1 year
Barnes, 850k
Grant Hill 2m, 2 years

Overpaid
--------------
Eric Gordon *15m +, 4 years*
Courtney Lee 5m starting with raises 5-5.7m, 4 years
Fields 6m+, 3 years

contracts given prior to this past summer
------------------------------------------------

Kevin Martin 12m, final year

JJ Barea 4m +, 4.5-4.7 4 years,

Jarreat Jack 5.6m 1 year left

Wilson Chandler 6m-7m, 4 years left with last year Team Option

Cory Brewer 3.25m, final year

Sefelosha 3.6 and 3.9m, 2 years

Uptown wrote:

knickscity wrote:If losing is acceptable, how come the team hasn't been doing much of it?

Pretty much...This is a very questionable thread title to say the least....

Vmart wrote:The reason I say losing is acceptable is the way they came out against teams they lost to. Team lacks pride that for me it means do they want it bad enough.

C'mon Son!

Until you can cite some qualitative facts this thread is a huge FAIL.

Is Raymond Felton playing with two bruised hands a sign of a losers mentality? JR Smith hitting the floor hard and refusing to come out of the game?

Tyson Chandler playing with no backup center?

Fighting back from 25 down to make the Bulls game so clos they never emptied their bench?

The only reason VMart thinks losing is acceptable is a personal tantrum. A false start. A ridiculous claim that cannot be backed up with anything measurable.

Knicksfan wrote:I get the point of this thread and share the same preoccupation.Truth is, we've been playing well and our record shows that, but the way we have played certain teams, lost to them and then played them a second time and show no adjustment nor urgency in getting that win is really reason enough to worry. Much more when you accept the fact our defense has been inconsistent at best and many games have been won with effective offenses as the mainbweapon, when our bread and butter should be defense. I love my team but I'm not blind: they are slacking on defense and truth is their talwnt will be enough against many teams,but guys like The Bulls play playoff defense and so far we've failed against them.

The first part doesn't concern me. The Knicks are 20-7 and winning plenty of games. Fans like to use the second game against the same team as a barometer, but it really doesn't matter. The Knicks are too old and too smart to go onto the court with playoff intensity 82 nights like the Bulls do. The biggest concern for this team is getting to the playoffs healthy, which is something they haven't been able to do the last two seasons.

I agree that the defense is has been worse lately, but I will point out that it has stepped up late in games even when the Knicks have given up a lot of points. Holding the Timberwolves to 36 points in the second half was a good start. Hopefully it keeps up against the Lakers on Christmas day.

The team *as is* is not championship material.

We need to use our asset--Mr Shumpert--to go out and get a Vince Carter--something like that--if the goal was to compete this year and year. I dont want to trade Shumpert myself--but the Knicks strategy of giving away draft picks in every deal backfires when you really could use 1.

I cannot rely on Wallace or Camby. I cannot rely on Kidd Shumpert Roonie Brewer Chris Copeland or James White. Jr Smith is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Amare is limited to 25 minutes. So how is this team going to beat a good team in 7 games?

We did a lot of winning and IMHO it was based on J Kidd as the conduit. Hes gone--so who is next? We dont have the horses. Did the 94 Knicks lose to the raptors at home or the Wizards on the road? No.

misterearl wrote:+19

knickscity wrote:If losing is acceptable, how come the team hasn't been doing much of it?

Thank you knickscity.

14-13 in the last 27 games. That's 6-6 without Felton and 8-7 with him. The average of our opponents' winning % is below .450 for that stretch.