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Revisiting our trade for Melo (21 months later). Our Knicks have came out victorious too.
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Bonn1997
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12/10/2012  10:49 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:The W-L differential has much more to do with the quality of their teammates. I know you'll say your naked eye is right and the advanced stats are wrong but check out the win shares per 48 min (WS/48): http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2013.html
You can check out the wins produced too but it's ugly for Melo (especially if you click on his name and switch his position from SF to PF): http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/nyk

I thought we are just suppose to blame the player regardless of the quality of teammates?


I've never recommended doing that

Don't/Didn't you call him Mr .470?

Is that not "doing that"?

Blame him for all his first round exits? Is that not "doing that"?

THIS is fooling no one.


Yeah, tongue in cheek (as explained many times). I've never thought team W-L record was good way of evaluating individual players.
AUTOADVERT
JrZyHuStLa
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12/10/2012  10:50 AM
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.

I really hope he's limiting his three point attempts.

He's at a dismal 28% clip.

God he's awful.
NUPE
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12/10/2012  11:02 AM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.

I really hope he's limiting his three point attempts.

He's at a dismal 28% clip.

God he's awful.


Gallo has always shot terrible from the field and grossly inefficient. Nothing new. I don't miss him but wish him the best.
smackeddog
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12/10/2012  11:09 AM
2 minor issues that puzzle me about the trade- why was Denver so insistent that the didn't want Anthony Randolph, only to end up signing him in free agency when his potential was even less by that point (after doing nothing in Minnesota, on top of doing nothing for us, there wasn't much hope left- now he's doing nothing in Denver)?

Also Why were we in such a rush to dump Brewer for nothing. We were desperately lacking depth at that point- why the heck get rid of him just as a 'favor' for his agent?
Killa4luv
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12/10/2012  11:37 AM
smackeddog wrote:2 minor issues that puzzle me about the trade- why was Denver so insistent that the didn't want Anthony Randolph, only to end up signing him in free agency when his potential was even less by that point (after doing nothing in Minnesota, on top of doing nothing for us, there wasn't much hope left- now he's doing nothing in Denver)?

Also Why were we in such a rush to dump Brewer for nothing. We were desperately lacking depth at that point- why the heck get rid of him just as a 'favor' for his agent?


Brewer has the same agent as either Amare or Melo. It was basically a favor to the agent to let Brewer go to play with another team as was not going to play him. Yes he was a good player and we could have used him, could still use him now, but such is life.
NUPE
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12/10/2012  11:50 AM
Corey Brewer has been average to below average thus far in his career. I don't even see why he is being discussed.
DurzoBlint
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12/10/2012  11:58 AM
NUPE wrote:Corey Brewer has been average to below average thus far in his career. I don't even see why he is being discussed.

Exactly^. And Dude had the nerve to demand a starting spot or a certain amount of minutes. I had a lot of issue with D'Antoni but, letting Brewer walk was not one of them. Average players are the last ones to come in making demands. He may not have a bad rep but, once a player comes in making such demands, you have to worry about your locker-room

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Knixkik
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12/10/2012  1:42 PM
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.


I've always been a Gallo fan, but he has gotten worse each year. He shoots more, shoots a worse percentage, and hasn't significantly improved any area of his game. If he were still a Knick, we would be extremely disappointed with his lack of development.
DurzoBlint
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12/10/2012  2:00 PM
Knixkik wrote:
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.


I've always been a Gallo fan, but he has gotten worse each year. He shoots more, shoots a worse percentage, and hasn't significantly improved any area of his game. If he were still a Knick, we would be extremely disappointed with his lack of development.

I don't think Gallo had a choice (re:chucking). He is the "closest" thing to a go-to guy on the team and, the only one that really causes matchup problems. Sort of like Jamal Crawford when we had him. If they aren't chucking, there was/is little chance of their team winning. Who else can they rely on the create for themselves (if necessary) to get off that last shot. Not Adre (can't shoot) Igo, not Often hurt Wilson Chandler. Maybe their point guard could be that guy but, with the likely matchups, its gonna be gallo more often then not.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
JrZyHuStLa
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12/10/2012  2:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2012  2:48 PM
Knixkik wrote:
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.


I've always been a Gallo fan, but he has gotten worse each year. He shoots more, shoots a worse percentage, and hasn't significantly improved any area of his game. If he were still a Knick, we would be extremely disappointed with his lack of development.

This is the evolution of an NBA role player.

They come into the league with promise, shine during a few games early in their careers, but never really take that next step by improving in the off season or through experience.

Danilo Gallinari is a pretty good role player when the shots are falling.

To cry over losing him for Carmelo Anthony is flat out idiotic, nor can it be backed up with statistics.
Knixkik
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12/10/2012  3:37 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.


I've always been a Gallo fan, but he has gotten worse each year. He shoots more, shoots a worse percentage, and hasn't significantly improved any area of his game. If he were still a Knick, we would be extremely disappointed with his lack of development.

This is the evolution of an NBA role player.

They come into the league with promise, shine during a few games early in their careers, but never really take that next step by improving in the off season or through experience.

Danilo Gallinari is a pretty good role player when the shots are falling.

To cry over losing him for Carmelo Anthony is flat out idiotic, nor can it be backed up with statistics.


Yeah looking back, i cant believe i was on the fence about including 2 of the 3 of Gallo, Chandler, and Fields. I was always a fan of the trade, but to even think we gave up a lot considering how these guys are doing was bad.
ChuckBuck
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12/10/2012  3:40 PM
Knixkik wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.


I've always been a Gallo fan, but he has gotten worse each year. He shoots more, shoots a worse percentage, and hasn't significantly improved any area of his game. If he were still a Knick, we would be extremely disappointed with his lack of development.

This is the evolution of an NBA role player.

They come into the league with promise, shine during a few games early in their careers, but never really take that next step by improving in the off season or through experience.

Danilo Gallinari is a pretty good role player when the shots are falling.

To cry over losing him for Carmelo Anthony is flat out idiotic, nor can it be backed up with statistics.


Yeah looking back, i cant believe i was on the fence about including 2 of the 3 of Gallo, Chandler, and Fields. I was always a fan of the trade, but to even think we gave up a lot considering how these guys are doing was bad.

Back when the trade happened, it seemed like alot.

In hindsight, all the players involved are kinda wretched. We got back the one chip we missed dearly(Felton). Did Mozgov or AR15 even touch the floor yesterday?
Gymkata
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12/10/2012  3:47 PM
Moving Felton was the plan in the Melo trade was the plan all along!

"We'll trade him to Denver. He'll get depressed and get fat and then we can re-sign him at a great, team-friendly deal a year later!"

Diabolical bastards...

"I can not say all the secrets."
Nalod
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12/10/2012  5:18 PM

I wonder what Denver fans perspective is?

The Homer prism by which we look at this is going to conclude we "Won" the trade.

20 games into the season hardly makes for a conclusion. I think Denver and KNicks record before this season was about even.

Im sure the prism by which you look at it can paint your own conclusion.

Maybe Denver fans looks at it as they are no better or worse than they were before. Primarily (with one execption) they were a one and done playoff team with Melo.

I think we are long past direct comparisons piece by piece.

Maybe what some of you are missing is the opportunity we could have had with draft picks and assets being traded in another manner.

Thats abstract and takes a lot of work and imagination.

I don't think we freeze that roster and it remains the same after 20 months.

Knick fans are happy.
Knixkik
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12/10/2012  5:28 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
NUPE wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:There's no need for a one trick pony like Gallinari when you have an even better one trick pony in Novak.

Gallo is not a one trick pony. He probably is more of a slasher now than a spot up shooter / three chucker.


I've always been a Gallo fan, but he has gotten worse each year. He shoots more, shoots a worse percentage, and hasn't significantly improved any area of his game. If he were still a Knick, we would be extremely disappointed with his lack of development.

This is the evolution of an NBA role player.

They come into the league with promise, shine during a few games early in their careers, but never really take that next step by improving in the off season or through experience.

Danilo Gallinari is a pretty good role player when the shots are falling.

To cry over losing him for Carmelo Anthony is flat out idiotic, nor can it be backed up with statistics.


Yeah looking back, i cant believe i was on the fence about including 2 of the 3 of Gallo, Chandler, and Fields. I was always a fan of the trade, but to even think we gave up a lot considering how these guys are doing was bad.

Back when the trade happened, it seemed like alot.

In hindsight, all the players involved are kinda wretched. We got back the one chip we missed dearly(Felton). Did Mozgov or AR15 even touch the floor yesterday?

Mozgov isn't in the rotation and AR isn't even on the team anymore. He's one of the biggest wastes of talent in recent years.
raven
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12/10/2012  5:31 PM
We traded a chance to win in the future for a chance to win it all now. So if we win a championship in the Melo era, we will have won the trade, if not and if Denver doesn't win anything either, it will have been a wash. And if Denver wins the 'chip before us...

Right now, all we have won is a bunch of meaningless regular season games, so it's way to early to celebrate anything. Let's remember that Denver started 14-5 last year before sinking fast.
We need to at least go the Conf finals to say the trade was worth it. The East is so bad, I would be really disappointed if we failed to do so.

Kidd is a miracle, him and Chandler are a gift from Cuban, who dismantled his team instead of trying for a repeat. Those 2 guys changed everything, they have the spirit that Melo has lacked all his career and we're blessed to have them.
But the clock is ticking, so let's not waste Kidd's last good years, this guy is a Hall of Famer, one of the all-time greats at his position.

How long will he be able to play that well? I'd rather win it all before it called it a day.
Bonn1997
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12/10/2012  5:43 PM
I'd add that although I do think we have a better team than Denver has, I think they're *much* better than their record indicates. Right now, they've played fifteen road games and six home games. When you factor in strength of schedule and margin of victory/loss, Hollinger has them at #9 in the league.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings
gunsnewing
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12/10/2012  5:51 PM
smackeddog wrote:2 minor issues that puzzle me about the trade- why was Denver so insistent that the didn't want Anthony Randolph, only to end up signing him in free agency when his potential was even less by that point (after doing nothing in Minnesota, on top of doing nothing for us, there wasn't much hope left- now he's doing nothing in Denver)?

Also Why were we in such a rush to dump Brewer for nothing. We were desperately lacking depth at that point- why the heck get rid of him just as a 'favor' for his agent?

Dantoni was the coach. Dantoni doesn't like defense. Brewer plays defense. Brewer gets traded. That simple.
NUPE
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12/10/2012  6:52 PM
raven wrote:We traded a chance to win in the future for a chance to win it all now. So if we win a championship in the Melo era, we will have won the trade, if not and if Denver doesn't win anything either, it will have been a wash. And if Denver wins the 'chip before us...

I don't foresee a team where Mozgov, Gallo and Wilson Chandler get extended contracts ever winning a title. These players just are not good enough. And, I like all of them, particularly Wilson Chandler. They just can't be the core of a team that will even begin to compete for a title.

A team can compete with Melo, Chandler and Amar'e playing at a high level assuming there are competent support players. I think we have that now and we will see how things pan out for the NYK in the coming months and years. There are no guarantees but I do like what the NYK have now.
Knixkik
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12/10/2012  10:05 PM
NUPE wrote:
raven wrote:We traded a chance to win in the future for a chance to win it all now. So if we win a championship in the Melo era, we will have won the trade, if not and if Denver doesn't win anything either, it will have been a wash. And if Denver wins the 'chip before us...

I don't foresee a team where Mozgov, Gallo and Wilson Chandler get extended contracts ever winning a title. These players just are not good enough. And, I like all of them, particularly Wilson Chandler. They just can't be the core of a team that will even begin to compete for a title.

A team can compete with Melo, Chandler and Amar'e playing at a high level assuming there are competent support players. I think we have that now and we will see how things pan out for the NYK in the coming months and years. There are no guarantees but I do like what the NYK have now.


You have to like what the Knicks have now more than this time a couple years ago, and that is what is most important.
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Revisiting our trade for Melo (21 months later). Our Knicks have came out victorious too.
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