TheloniusMonk wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Is Paul Peirce first tier or second tier? Durant? Niether is a great defender and have many other flaws.

They have both been to the finals. Look Im a melo supporter but he still has to prove that he can get lead a team past the first round again

Not talking about accomplishments with their teams. Some people on here feel that Carmelo is not a top tier player BECAUSE he has flaws. Point is most top tier players have flaws. Melo is top tier.....WITH flaws. So are the others I listed as well as a few others. Top tier players have flaws too....just ask Patrick Ewing.

MOST Top tier players have been on first team all NBA as well as all defense teams, have mvp's, won scoring titles, etc... melo has not won any of these awards.. why should he be mentioned among the elite? would it be fair to for nets fans to mention joe johnson as elite just because they like him and he wears a uniform of the team they root for?

fishmike wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Is Paul Peirce first tier or second tier? Durant? Niether is a great defender and have many other flaws.

They have both been to the finals. Look Im a melo supporter but he still has to prove that he can get lead a team past the first round again

Melo was in the finals?

you look at PPs career... good numbers, lots of wins. His niche was carved when the team around him improved and he fell more into his role, which was finishing and team basketball. Hopefully thats what we are seeing now with Melo. This is easily the best team he's ever been on. I wouldnt have said that start of the season but a few things have really broken our way. Felton's in shape, motivated and playing his best ball. JR grew up. Kidd has a lot left after all. Brewer has been a Battier type role player. None of those things suprise me, but having ALL happen is unexpected and awesome.

Whats the knock on Melo? Poor playoff performer, sporatic defender not a leader. So we filled the roster with guys who know how to win in the postseason, tough defenders and locker room leaders. Grunwald as put Melo in the best spot to succeed and Melo has been great, and the team has been great. Great job all around. They all deserve due credit, Melo included. Why thats not enough and people need to constantly make Melo into something he isnt or shove his epic greatness down peoples throats is totally beyond me.

very well put fish..

TheloniusMonk wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Is Paul Peirce first tier or second tier? Durant? Niether is a great defender and have many other flaws.

They have both been to the finals. Look Im a melo supporter but he still has to prove that he can get lead a team past the first round again

Not talking about accomplishments with their teams. Some people on here feel that Carmelo is not a top tier player BECAUSE he has flaws. Point is most top tier players have flaws. Melo is top tier.....WITH flaws. So are the others I listed as well as a few others. Top tier players have flaws too....just ask Patrick Ewing.

Ewing's teams went 10 straight years to the playoffs and advanced where his numbers were excellent
Melo's teams went 10 straight years to the playoffs and advanced once where his numbers (shooting at least) were poor.

Is that really so unfair?

Ewing: how many first or 2nd all NBA awards? How many first or 2nd team all NBA defense? The individual awards as well as the playoff wins where there for Ewing. Not for Melo.

Melo is Robin. Ewing would have been Batman. Not even close.... Please.... until Melo is finals MVP this year lets just cut that chatter.

NYKMentality wrote:I'm willing to debate against any Melo critic out there who consideres Melo to be anything other than an A.) a winning player and B.) an elite basketball talent. If you'd like to step up to the challenge you can always do so with and/in reply to this post below. Quote my each and every remark and/or comment if you'd like. That's my challenge. Because I know I'll kick your ass with actual stats, knowledge of the game, knowledge of Melo's different types of situations and/or actual insight. Go ahead and make a damn fool out of your basketball knowledge if you want to, but at least do it with some insight.

Melo critics wouldn't be able to list off 10 NBA players in whom are considered to be more elite when compared to Melo himself. If so they're digging. Melo was our 6th man off the bench for our United States Olympic team. No coach in the right mind would ever play more than 5 or 6 players ahead of Melo. One of the greatest overall basketball players this Country currently has. Prove me wrong (with insight).

There are billions of people in our world, but yet Melo's considered to be and/or respected as one of the greatest basketball players in the entire world. But yet he's not an elite talent through the eyes of those naysaying critics in which only judge Melo from their living room chair. They'll state that he's not an "elite" NBA player, because well, they just 'say so'.

They'll attack and/or harp all over Melo due to his "playoff record" despite the fact that basketball has always (and will always) be an overall team sport. They've mentioned Melo's playoff record time and time again without including any type of actual insight. None whatsoever. No basketball insight involved. Instead, just one line fillers with what seems to be a lack of basketball knowledge. Just a record off a piece of paper in which they seen written down. How about they tell us something in which we don't already know in regards to Carmelo Anthony, the basketball player, not just a postseason record in regards to a team sport. Are Stockton, Malone and Ewing career failures because their team(s) could never win an NBA championship? Melo's career is far from over, could have another 8-10 years left; but let's talk Melo's postseason. Challenged.

Which teams did Melo's Nuggets lose to?

How stacked was that Western Conference during it's golden years?

How weak was the East during a time where LeBron James was landing trips to the Finals?

Care to list those oppnents/teams of both the East and Western conferences? What about the players of each team and conference? Who played in the melting pot when compared to the cake walk?

Which types of players did those teams have on their postseason rosters?

Were they Dynasty teams of the Western Conference?

How many years did it take Melo to lead his team to an above .500 record in a tough western conference when compared to LeBron leading his franchise to an above .500 season inside of a laughing stock joke of the East? I know the answer, just wondering if these guys do.

Before LeBron teamed up with Wade and Bosh, what was Melo's career record against LeBron during their Denver/Cleveland years? I know the answer once again. But do you?

When did LeBron win his first championship ring? Did it only happen... Last year? How many rings does Durant and Rose have? How many years did it take Dirk to win his?

Did Melo not win a championship for Syracuse university during only his freshman season? Was it by coincidence? Because the last time I checked that program competed in, and has seen 35 NCAA Tournament appearances. 34 of those times they failed. The one time they had Melo as a freshman kid he ended up leading that program to never before seen Syracuse greatness. But yet, he's not elite. Because some of you say so.

A.) Denver's franchise missed the playoffs during 7-8 consecutive seasons before the drafting of Melo.

B.) Denver's franchise then made the postseason during 7-8 consecutive seasons after the drafting of Melo.

C.) Another coincidence? Or did Melo change the culture of that franchise? Did Melo not carry that Nuggets franchise on his back? Was he not their franchise player in which turned them into a winning basketball team?

Melo's not an elite player? Fine. Then I guess it's safe to say that our Unites States of America's basketball team wasn't elite either. Because Melo was a stand out Unites States STAR. A scoring phenom. Can dominate (and has dominated) the entire world with his scoring ability.

"Anthony, along with LeBron James, also participated in the 2012 Summer Olympics held in London. It was his third straight Olympiad (2004, 2008, 2012), as he (Melo) joined James and David Robinson (1988, 1992, 1996) as the only American basketball players to play in three Olympiads".

But yet he's no elite.

"Anthony played in all 8 games, serving as Team USA's sixth man. He posted averages of 16.3 ppg (130 points), 4.8 rpg (38 rebounds), 1.3 apg (10 assists) and 0.5 spg (4 steals), built around 50% shooting from 3 PT range (23-46), 53% FG shooting (46-86) and 79% FT (15-19). In a 156-73 victory over Nigeria, Anthony connected on 10-12 3-point attempts, both records for made and attempted shots, on the way to 37 points, another Team USA record".

Set a team USA record, but yet he's not elite.

"Team USA won the gold medal as they defended their 2008 title against Spain, winning 107-100. Anthony's 16.3 ppg average was the second best for Team USA behind Kevin Durant's record-setting 156 points (19.5 ppg). Anthony's 23 made 3-point shots was second-best to Durant's record 34 as they both broke the previous Team USA record of 17 made 3-point shots".

But yet, Melo's "not an elite" NBA player.

For the Melo supporters? This one was for you.

UltimateMelo.com

In a 156-73 victory over Nigeria, Anthony connected on 10-12 3-point attempts, both records for made and attempted shots, on the way to 37 points, another Team USA record"

Do you remember the great esteemed American olympian who held the record before him?

Did Denver really have the same roster for 7 years before they drafted Melo?

Great post. Thats some fable be told! Its FANtastic!

Save it, there only like 5 or 6 folk who don't like Melo. The rest are on board with him but to various degrees.

fishmike wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Is Paul Peirce first tier or second tier? Durant? Niether is a great defender and have many other flaws.

They have both been to the finals. Look Im a melo supporter but he still has to prove that he can get lead a team past the first round again

Not talking about accomplishments with their teams. Some people on here feel that Carmelo is not a top tier player BECAUSE he has flaws. Point is most top tier players have flaws. Melo is top tier.....WITH flaws. So are the others I listed as well as a few others. Top tier players have flaws too....just ask Patrick Ewing.

Ewing = top tier. Melo = 2nd tier.

Ewing's teams went 10 straight years to the playoffs and advanced where his numbers were excellent
Melo's teams went 10 straight years to the playoffs and advanced once where his numbers (shooting at least) were poor.

Is that really so unfair?

Ewing: how many first or 2nd all NBA awards? How many first or 2nd team all NBA defense? The individual awards as well as the playoff wins where there for Ewing. Not for Melo.

Melo is Robin. Ewing would have been Batman. Not even close.... Please.... until Melo is finals MVP this year lets just cut that chatter.

Yup. And Ewing did it all with flaws in his game.

And he's PATRICK EWING!!! Being Robin to his Batman isn't bad at all. Wasn't that what Scottie was to MJ? Wasn't he top tier? Isn;t he one of the 50 greatest? Melo being 2nd to Ewing means nothing. They'd both be Hall of Famers on the same team WITH a ring imo.

Fishmike....tell me more about how the first placed Knicks is a "sh1t show" as you called it before?

When a person really doesn't like something, all logic goes out of the window. This is the perfect case.

BTW, Ewing was never Finals MVP. I guess he gets knocked back down to 2nd tier huh? smh

New York is scoring 112.3 points per 100 possessions with Melo on the floor and just 101.4 when he sits, per NBA.com. The first number would lead the league by a mile; the second number is about league average.

Brewer has shot 24-of-45 (53 percent) with Melo on the floor and just 4-of-12 in 54 minutes without Melo, per NBA.com. Opponents have designated Brewer the Knicks' top "hider" — the non-threatening place where it's safe to stick a second big man with no other big around to guard.

Maybe he does make his teammates better.

tkf wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Is Paul Peirce first tier or second tier? Durant? Niether is a great defender and have many other flaws.

They have both been to the finals. Look Im a melo supporter but he still has to prove that he can get lead a team past the first round again

Not talking about accomplishments with their teams. Some people on here feel that Carmelo is not a top tier player BECAUSE he has flaws. Point is most top tier players have flaws. Melo is top tier.....WITH flaws. So are the others I listed as well as a few others. Top tier players have flaws too....just ask Patrick Ewing.

MOST Top tier players have been on first team all NBA as well as all defense teams, have mvp's, won scoring titles, etc... melo has not won any of these awards.. why should he be mentioned among the elite? would it be fair to for nets fans to mention joe johnson as elite just because they like him and he wears a uniform of the team they root for?

5 time All-Star
5 time All-NBA
2 Olympic Gold Medals-playing a key role
National Championship, MOP, All-American, All-Big East
Career 25 and 7 guy
Playoffs every year
Never below .500
2 50 Point games
All-Rookie Team
Robbed of the R.O.Y

and now he's playing great D and leading our team to victories

fishmike wrote:16-36 in the playoffs with 40% shooting.

When he wins when it counts the critics will be quiet and so will these stupid threads.

No all NBA awards, no first team anything, no scoring titles, no individual awards at all (to make up for the lack of supporting cast he's suffered through in his career).

But since you wrote stuff in bold it must true

He's 2nd tier, its not debatable.

Melo is playing great, but this team isnt Melo and a bunch of guys around him. He's just part of the crew, which is probably why he's playing his best basketball. Ever hear the expression stay within yourself? Melo isnt a leader or a franchise build around type. He's got a role on this team and he's playing great because he has no choice but to go out and do what the coach says. Being in shape has also helped.

Your ignorance knows no bounds.

Anji wrote:^^^Unless you can add assists, free throws, subtract turnovers and misses, times it with the number you get after you divide steals, blocks and rebounds by . 003................. it doesn't count.

LMAO

tkf wrote: MOST Top tier players have won scoring titles

Don't you dare mention Melo not winning a scoring title as a knock on Melo not being a top tier player, when Melo himself has been one of the greatest scoring phenoms this game has seen dating back to his rookie season. Averaged 21 points per game as a rookie and hasn't looked back since. Has actually improved as a scoring great dating back to his rookie season of 2003-2004.

Do you not use your noggin before the bashing of Melo? Do you not sit back and think for a second before you press the post new reply tab?

I'm only asking because you're actually using Melo not winning a scoring title as an example in order to give you 'that right' to knock on his game, without first having the overall knowledge to understand that Melo's currently on pace to rank 5th-6th all-time in regards to scoring, with a very respectable shooting percetange as well (a career shooting percentage higher than the likes of Kobe Bryant).

Heading into this season of 2012-2013...

Melo put up 15,926 points during his first 9 NBA seasons.
Kobe put up 14,034 points during his first 9 NBA seasons.

But yet, you decided to mention the fact that he's yet to win a scoring title? Well, then, lets not act as if Melo hasn't finished (in regards to scoring)...

2nd in 2006-2007. Only behind Kobe Bryant.
3rd in 2009-2010. Only behind LeBron and Durant.
3rd in 2010-2011. Only behind LeBron and Durant.
4th in 2012-2013. Behind only LeBron, Durant and Kobe.
4th in 2007-2008. Only behind Iverson, LeBron and Durant.
6th in 2011-2012.
7th in 2008-2009.
8th in 2005-2006.
12th in 2003-2004. Finished ahead of LeBron during their rookie season.
19th in 2004-2005.

tkf wrote:would it be fair to for nets fans to mention joe johnson as elite just because they like him and he wears a uniform of the team they root for?

Really? Are you really using Joe Johnson of all players, as an example on why New York fans shouldn't mention Melo as being elite? Joe Johnson? Really?

Joe Johnson has been in the league for 13 seasons and has only averaged 20+ points during 5 of those years (hasn't averaged anything over 18.8 points during 3 years and counting). Melo on the other hand? Has never as a season in which he's averaged anything under 20 points per game.

Joe Johnson? Really? Let's at least think before the bashing of Melo TKF, because now you're borderline trolling out of frustration. Joe freaking Johnson?

GodNa7ion wrote:

tkf wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

TheloniusMonk wrote:Is Paul Peirce first tier or second tier? Durant? Niether is a great defender and have many other flaws.

They have both been to the finals. Look Im a melo supporter but he still has to prove that he can get lead a team past the first round again

Not talking about accomplishments with their teams. Some people on here feel that Carmelo is not a top tier player BECAUSE he has flaws. Point is most top tier players have flaws. Melo is top tier.....WITH flaws. So are the others I listed as well as a few others. Top tier players have flaws too....just ask Patrick Ewing.

MOST Top tier players have been on first team all NBA as well as all defense teams, have mvp's, won scoring titles, etc... melo has not won any of these awards.. why should he be mentioned among the elite? would it be fair to for nets fans to mention joe johnson as elite just because they like him and he wears a uniform of the team they root for?

and now he's playing great D and leading our team to victories