tkf wrote:

Anji wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Anji wrote:
I think what hubbie pointed out is that will the defense still be this good with Melo having to always chase the three's with zero breaks from guarding bigs and will Amare make the rotations that this team has been making at all. Basically BrewervsMelo and MelovsStat from a drop point of veiw, I don't think it will work the same.

I think the knicks should target Milsap in the off season.

We have $76M tied up in 10 players next year so anyone we target in free agency has to be willing to accept either the veteran's minimum or the $3M mini-MLE. There's no reason at all for Millsap to accept a below-market offer like that.

absolutely not at all... I like milsap but that is a pipe dream..

lolmnop!!!!

This just goes to show how distorted a fan(possibly fans) views are on our future. Look you're not going to get a player of Milsap's caliber who's in his prime to come here and settle on a $3mil deal especially not at extended yrs. Not to mention he can get that anywhere in this league and probably get a promise to start at least on a half dozen of teams.

Think more along the lines of adding guys like Kidd/Sheed maybe a Josh Howard/Pietrus type of player which are not rebuilding bright future type of pieces.

This why this board is so great, same handful of posters circle jerking a single post to get their grim view out about the knicks.

I said nothing about signing Millsap to the Vet or MLE.

maybe you didn't and maybe you should elaborate, because there is absolutely no way in our situation that we could get a player like milsap here unless he signs the vet min or mle......

Maybe you shouldn't take another posters view of what I mentioned and run with it, seems that would the normal thing to do.

3G4G wrote:

Anji wrote:

3G4G wrote:

tkf wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Anji wrote:
I think what hubbie pointed out is that will the defense still be this good with Melo having to always chase the three's with zero breaks from guarding bigs and will Amare make the rotations that this team has been making at all. Basically BrewervsMelo and MelovsStat from a drop point of veiw, I don't think it will work the same.

I think the knicks should target Milsap in the off season.

We have $76M tied up in 10 players next year so anyone we target in free agency has to be willing to accept either the veteran's minimum or the $3M mini-MLE. There's no reason at all for Millsap to accept a below-market offer like that.

absolutely not at all... I like milsap but that is a pipe dream..

lolmnop!!!!

This just goes to show how distorted a fan(possibly fans) views are on our future. Look you're not going to get a player of Milsap's caliber who's in his prime to come here and settle on a $3mil deal especially not at extended yrs. Not to mention he can get that anywhere in this league and probably get a promise to start at least on a half dozen of teams.

Think more along the lines of adding guys like Kidd/Sheed maybe a Josh Howard/Pietrus type of player which are not rebuilding bright future type of pieces.

This why this board is so great, same handful of posters circle jerking a single post to get their grim view out about the knicks.

I said nothing about signing Millsap to the Vet or MLE.

When you said "target" Milsap

Did you mean pursue him with a bunch of Physical "Target" Gift Cards or "Target" E-Gift Cards? With Monopoly Money? What?

Okay so who is getting S&T to the Jazz for Milsap a la Camby to Houston.... from the existing Championship team? Are you talking about giving up more picks(swap picks) in the process?

VC broke it down to you from a Cap Perspective. Did you bother to cap/cba fact check?

Anji wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Anji wrote:
I think what hubbie pointed out is that will the defense still be this good with Melo having to always chase the three's with zero breaks from guarding bigs and will Amare make the rotations that this team has been making at all. Basically BrewervsMelo and MelovsStat from a drop point of veiw, I don't think it will work the same.

I think the knicks should target Milsap in the off season.

We have $76M tied up in 10 players next year so anyone we target in free agency has to be willing to accept either the veteran's minimum or the $3M mini-MLE. There's no reason at all for Millsap to accept a below-market offer like that.

Knicks aren't signing anybody for the next three offseason, Sign and Trades are how things will be done around here.

Hmm, I think this past offseason was the last one that allowed sign and trades- think they're banned under the new cba for teams like ours from now on. Can't remember the exact details but I'm pretty sure we can't do them any more.

smackeddog wrote:

Anji wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Anji wrote:
I think what hubbie pointed out is that will the defense still be this good with Melo having to always chase the three's with zero breaks from guarding bigs and will Amare make the rotations that this team has been making at all. Basically BrewervsMelo and MelovsStat from a drop point of veiw, I don't think it will work the same.

I think the knicks should target Milsap in the off season.

We have $76M tied up in 10 players next year so anyone we target in free agency has to be willing to accept either the veteran's minimum or the $3M mini-MLE. There's no reason at all for Millsap to accept a below-market offer like that.

Knicks aren't signing anybody for the next three offseason, Sign and Trades are how things will be done around here.

Hmm, I think this past offseason was the last one that allowed sign and trades- think they're banned under the new cba for teams like ours from now on. Can't remember the exact details but I'm pretty sure we can't do them any more.

It looks like you might be right. This is from Larry Coon's CBA FAQ http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q88. I bolded the most relevant parts.

88. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

There is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under this rule the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract stipulating that the contract is null and void if the trade to the specific team is not completed within 48 hours. To qualify for a sign-and-trade, all of the following must be true:

The player must re-sign with his prior team -- a team cannot include another team's free agent in a sign-and-trade.
The player must finish the preceding season with that team (deals are no longer allowed that sign-and-trade players who are out of the league, such as the sign-and-trade that sent Keith Van Horn from Dallas to New Jersey as part of the Jason Kidd trade in 2008).
The player cannot be a restricted free agent who has signed an offer sheet with another team (see question number 43).
Starting in 2013-14, the team receiving the player cannot be above the "apron" ($4 million above the tax level) after the trade1.
Starting in 2013-14, the team cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade if they have used the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception (see question number 25) that season.
The trade must be completed prior to the first game of the regular season (sign-and-trades are not allowed once the season begins).
The player cannot be signed using the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, the Taxpayer Mid-Level exception, or any exception that cannot be used to offer a three-year contract (see question number 25).
A sign-and-trade deal can be made with a free agent who has been renounced, as long as all the above criteria are met. Sign-and-trade contracts must be for at least three seasons (not including any option year) and no longer than four seasons. The first year of the contract must be fully guaranteed, but the remaining seasons can be non-guaranteed. The combination of a three-year minimum with a one-year guarantee ensures that the player's new team cannot acquire the player's Bird rights any sooner than if they had signed him directly (if they wanted to re-sign him in less than three years they would first have to waive him, and lose any Bird rights -- see question number 32).

The starting salary in a contract signed for a sign-and-trade may be any amount up to the player's maximum, however if the player meets the 5th Year 30% Max criteria (see question number 17) he cannot receive a salary greater than 25% of the cap. Raises are limited to 4.5%. The player may be considered to have a lower outgoing salary for trade purposes, which can complicate the trade (see question number 86).

If a sign-and-trade contract contains a signing bonus, then either team can pay it. By default the team that signs the player pays the signing bonus (as with any other contract), but since a sign-and-trade is in essence a contract with the receiving team, the teams can agree that the receiving team will pay it. Any portion that is paid by the signing team counts toward the team's annual limit for cash included in a trade (see question number 94), which in effect limits the portion of the signing bonus that can be paid by the signing team.

If a sign-and-trade contract contains a trade bonus, then the bonus is not earned upon the trade that accompanies the signing, but rather on the first subsequent trade. See question number 92 for more information on how long a team must wait before they can trade a player.

1 A different team salary definition is used for determining whether a team is above or below the apron -- see question number 14 for details. Starting in 2013-14 if a team acquires a player in a sign-and-trade, the apron ($4 million above the tax line) effectively becomes a hard cap for the remainder of that season.

Anji wrote:^^^ I thought the sign and trade provisions kicked in after this off season. Not sure of the loop holes either, but the way it reads if the knicks are under the apron, the S&T doesn't take them over and they don't use the MLE, they can do a sign and trade deal.

I think Melo at the four stuff is a little over blown. He plays better if he can post up without the 5 and the 4 guys clogging the lane. Basically it boils down to him, Chandler and Stat not working well together. I think is Milsap a very versatile player that does a lot of things well. Shoots, post ups, rebounds passes and plays defense.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q23

Based on what Larry Coon says it looks like that starts this coming offseason. The apron for this season is $74.307M and our salary for next season is $76.404M. I guess it would be possible to do a sign and trade for Millsap, or another player, if the salary cap increases enough next year but it would still be very difficult. I only see two realistic options to trade for Millsap, if it's possible at all. The first one would be to trade one of our big 3 contracts in a larger multi-team deal but the only one of them I'd be willing to trade for Millsap is Amare; if he can't come back healthy this year and show he's still an effective player I can't imagine another team taking on the last two years of his contract without getting something else to sweeten the pot. The other option would be to bundle 3 or 4 of our smaller contracts together to match salaries but I don't know that any of the guys we'd be willing to give up are worth anything to the Jazz. Also, all the guys we have under contract next season are currently rotational players for us and any trade would leave our bench pretty thing.

One other thing. I believe, and I've said this since we resigned him, that we have a handshake agreement with JR Smith where he will opt out of his contract after this season and we'll resign him using his Early Bird rights to a contract that more accurately reflects his value. I figure that any contract we give to JR would definitely put us over the $4M apron.