Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:I think most of you guys are going on the assumption that this team is 25-5 when amare comes back.. lets just say we are 15-15? are you still going to be all for amare coming off the bench.. again, I think most of you are way overreacting here...

A little over a year and half sample + playoffs = pretty big sample size

Amare, phucking up Knicks and Melo's game. At least in 2nd unit, he can feast on opposing bench bigs, and his allergy to defense can be masked by Wallace and Camby.

Seems like this whole "Amare" problem happened when Melo got here.

Ok, proper smilies inserted??

Really, since Woody is a magical coach why not just have faith that he can fix it instead of going on past assumptions?

Isn't Amare posting up with the Hakeem goodness to be more effective than him getting the ball further out?

My assumption is Amare is coached to fit into this offense. I assume Woody thought this thru without our help.

I'm sure Woody will make the right decision in regards to team continuity and keeping Amare on the floor for the remainder of his albatross contract.

Amare strength is in the PnR, so why not match him with Prigioni? Of course he'll play off Kidd/Felton, but Prigioni/Amare is a match made in heaven.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:it is 3 games.. melo has won before in denver.. regular season that is.. the question remains, is is championship worth, heck is it get out of the first round worth? so far it hasn't been for 8 out of 9 seasons....

do you think 3 games is enough to draw such conclusions, or maybe we should just wait just a tad bit more?....

We should wait longer, but given that this is the best start in franchise history (based on record and scoring margin) i think we can draw the conclusion that this is a pretty good team. Championship worth? Probably not yet, but with the right upgrades along the way, absolutely.

what upgrades,are you referring to?

Ok i'll give you a couple examples. Brewer will likely get replaced at some point (this year or next year) by Shumpert in the starting lineup. Kidd, as long as he stays healthy, could continue to be the starting SG over the next year or 2 by playing 20 mpg because he fits great. Eventually he will need to be replaced. Look at some underappreciated 3/D type players like Chase Budinger (a FA next summer), Jared Dudley, Dorrell Wright (another FA), etc. These guys are big SFs who can shoot and seem to be above average defenders. Those are the type of guys you look at who can improve this team and add a nice punch on both ends of the floor without changing what we are doing. I really think we could eventually have a starting five of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Kidd, and Felton and be in great shape, but will need to continue to improve. I love what Brewer is doing, but when healthy, Shumpert is an as good or better defender and better scorer.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Haha you are arguing that you swap Melo with Gallo and you get the same result? The same Heat blowout? Big time fail.

yea.. did you watch the game? Melo was terrible 2nd half and did everything he could to shoot us out of the game. If Knicks dont shoot the lights out and hit like 20 three pointers we get beat.

It was a good game, but if your going to tell me Melo carried us in some way shape or form you obviously didnt watch past the first quarter where he was great.

Teams defend Melo differently than they defend a Gallo. This team gets a lot of open shots because of how teams defend Melo. That would not happen if Gallo was the starting PF. The open looks would not have been there.

I don't think teams gameplan for or double team the rooster...

Heat and Sixers double Melo more than half the time if he's in the post.

Knixkik wrote:There has been a lot of questions about Melo's status as a star, can we build around him, etc. For those who like Melo, this is why. He doesn't need to play with other star players. All he needs is a bunch of shooters and defenders around him who can play to his strengths and help cover his weaknesses. If everyone on the floor, with the exception of Chandler (the center position) is a passable to great shooter and above average to great defender, you can build a championship team with him as your best player. Felton, Kidd, Brewer have all proven to be passable outside shooters, make sound decisions, pass well, defend well, and give Melo space to operate. Chandler is the presence down low who makes it easier to play smaller and have Melo at PF without sacrificing any size. Knicks should continue to look where to add solid role players who can shoot and defend, and if they can do that we can go very far with this formula.

I love the way the team and Melo are playing but your formula could apply to a lot of max contract players.

If EVERYONE on the floor is a passable to great shooter and above average to great defenders, you can build a championship team with __________________ as your best player. Love the positivity. But just sayin'.

Knixkik wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey fishmike, I thought Amare was the best player on the Knicks???

Don't you mean the Knicks won without their franchise player?

he sure isn't being used that way....if this team was being built around amare and the pick and roll, i could see your point tho.. but it isn't..

I'm just teasing fm, since he has topless pics of Amare on his car dashboard, and has a tattoo "STAT4LIFE" on his buttocks...JOKING!

In all seriousness, Knixkik is 100% on the money. Melo is not Lebron, but if you surround him with the right pieces, his team can make a deep a run as anyone (see 2009 WCF). Though, we still need a healthy Amare to be an offensive juggernaut in the 2nd unit, to make a legit run at the crown.

If they can get Amare to buy into that role, this team is downright scary. Otherwise, trade him next summer for a couple of young reserve bigs.

Amare is pretty much untradeable because of his contract. also if we were able to trade him we are not gonna get back a lot of value

ChuckBuck wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Haha you are arguing that you swap Melo with Gallo and you get the same result? The same Heat blowout? Big time fail.

yea.. did you watch the game? Melo was terrible 2nd half and did everything he could to shoot us out of the game. If Knicks dont shoot the lights out and hit like 20 three pointers we get beat.

It was a good game, but if your going to tell me Melo carried us in some way shape or form you obviously didnt watch past the first quarter where he was great.

Teams defend Melo differently than they defend a Gallo. This team gets a lot of open shots because of how teams defend Melo. That would not happen if Gallo was the starting PF. The open looks would not have been there.

I don't think teams gameplan for or double team the rooster...

Heat and Sixers double Melo more than half the time if he's in the post.

This is exactly right. Having Melo vs. Pierce, Iggy, Gallo, or any other solid forward changes the game completely.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:it is 3 games.. melo has won before in denver.. regular season that is.. the question remains, is is championship worth, heck is it get out of the first round worth? so far it hasn't been for 8 out of 9 seasons....

do you think 3 games is enough to draw such conclusions, or maybe we should just wait just a tad bit more?....

We should wait longer, but given that this is the best start in franchise history (based on record and scoring margin) i think we can draw the conclusion that this is a pretty good team. Championship worth? Probably not yet, but with the right upgrades along the way, absolutely.

what upgrades,are you referring to?

Ok i'll give you a couple examples. Brewer will likely get replaced at some point (this year or next year) by Shumpert in the starting lineup. Kidd, as long as he stays healthy, could continue to be the starting SG over the next year or 2 by playing 20 mpg because he fits great. Eventually he will need to be replaced. Look at some underappreciated 3/D type players like Chase Budinger (a FA next summer), Jared Dudley, Dorrell Wright (another FA), etc. These guys are big SFs who can shoot and seem to be above average defenders. Those are the type of guys you look at who can improve this team and add a nice punch on both ends of the floor without changing what we are doing. I really think we could eventually have a starting five of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Kidd, and Felton and be in great shape, but will need to continue to improve. I love what Brewer is doing, but when healthy, Shumpert is an as good or better defender and better scorer.

I see where you are going.. you have a point, but honestly, if the knicks can't win it this year, I think you start to look at hitting the reset button and selling off these big contracts while they have some value still..

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:it is 3 games.. melo has won before in denver.. regular season that is.. the question remains, is is championship worth, heck is it get out of the first round worth? so far it hasn't been for 8 out of 9 seasons....

do you think 3 games is enough to draw such conclusions, or maybe we should just wait just a tad bit more?....

We should wait longer, but given that this is the best start in franchise history (based on record and scoring margin) i think we can draw the conclusion that this is a pretty good team. Championship worth? Probably not yet, but with the right upgrades along the way, absolutely.

what upgrades,are you referring to?

Ok i'll give you a couple examples. Brewer will likely get replaced at some point (this year or next year) by Shumpert in the starting lineup. Kidd, as long as he stays healthy, could continue to be the starting SG over the next year or 2 by playing 20 mpg because he fits great. Eventually he will need to be replaced. Look at some underappreciated 3/D type players like Chase Budinger (a FA next summer), Jared Dudley, Dorrell Wright (another FA), etc. These guys are big SFs who can shoot and seem to be above average defenders. Those are the type of guys you look at who can improve this team and add a nice punch on both ends of the floor without changing what we are doing. I really think we could eventually have a starting five of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Kidd, and Felton and be in great shape, but will need to continue to improve. I love what Brewer is doing, but when healthy, Shumpert is an as good or better defender and better scorer.

I see where you are going.. you have a point, but honestly, if the knicks can't win it this year, I think you start to look at hitting the reset button and selling off these big contracts while they have some value still..

Or i'll give you another scenario: 2 years from now guys like Afflalo or Matthews become available (guys who can spot up and score and play lockdown D.) Melo, Felton, and Chandler are all still doing the same. Shumpert is in his 4th year, developing into an Iguodala-type player (lockdown defender, good second scoring option, all-star candidate.) A lineup of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Felton, and either Afflalo or Matthews can complete with the best of them. Just thinking outloud.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:it is 3 games.. melo has won before in denver.. regular season that is.. the question remains, is is championship worth, heck is it get out of the first round worth? so far it hasn't been for 8 out of 9 seasons....

do you think 3 games is enough to draw such conclusions, or maybe we should just wait just a tad bit more?....

We should wait longer, but given that this is the best start in franchise history (based on record and scoring margin) i think we can draw the conclusion that this is a pretty good team. Championship worth? Probably not yet, but with the right upgrades along the way, absolutely.

what upgrades,are you referring to?

Ok i'll give you a couple examples. Brewer will likely get replaced at some point (this year or next year) by Shumpert in the starting lineup. Kidd, as long as he stays healthy, could continue to be the starting SG over the next year or 2 by playing 20 mpg because he fits great. Eventually he will need to be replaced. Look at some underappreciated 3/D type players like Chase Budinger (a FA next summer), Jared Dudley, Dorrell Wright (another FA), etc. These guys are big SFs who can shoot and seem to be above average defenders. Those are the type of guys you look at who can improve this team and add a nice punch on both ends of the floor without changing what we are doing. I really think we could eventually have a starting five of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Kidd, and Felton and be in great shape, but will need to continue to improve. I love what Brewer is doing, but when healthy, Shumpert is an as good or better defender and better scorer.

I see where you are going.. you have a point, but honestly, if the knicks can't win it this year, I think you start to look at hitting the reset button and selling off these big contracts while they have some value still..

Or i'll give you another scenario: 2 years from now guys like Afflalo or Matthews become available (guys who can spot up and score and play lockdown D.) Melo, Felton, and Chandler are all still doing the same. Shumpert is in his 4th year, developing into an Iguodala-type player (lockdown defender, good second scoring option, all-star candidate.) A lineup of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Felton, and either Afflalo or Matthews can complete with the best of them. Just thinking outloud.

AGAIN, i SEE your point but i don't agree.. in 2 years we should not be building around carmelo and or felton... espcially if we have no rings..

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:it is 3 games.. melo has won before in denver.. regular season that is.. the question remains, is is championship worth, heck is it get out of the first round worth? so far it hasn't been for 8 out of 9 seasons....

do you think 3 games is enough to draw such conclusions, or maybe we should just wait just a tad bit more?....

We should wait longer, but given that this is the best start in franchise history (based on record and scoring margin) i think we can draw the conclusion that this is a pretty good team. Championship worth? Probably not yet, but with the right upgrades along the way, absolutely.

what upgrades,are you referring to?

Ok i'll give you a couple examples. Brewer will likely get replaced at some point (this year or next year) by Shumpert in the starting lineup. Kidd, as long as he stays healthy, could continue to be the starting SG over the next year or 2 by playing 20 mpg because he fits great. Eventually he will need to be replaced. Look at some underappreciated 3/D type players like Chase Budinger (a FA next summer), Jared Dudley, Dorrell Wright (another FA), etc. These guys are big SFs who can shoot and seem to be above average defenders. Those are the type of guys you look at who can improve this team and add a nice punch on both ends of the floor without changing what we are doing. I really think we could eventually have a starting five of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Kidd, and Felton and be in great shape, but will need to continue to improve. I love what Brewer is doing, but when healthy, Shumpert is an as good or better defender and better scorer.

I see where you are going.. you have a point, but honestly, if the knicks can't win it this year, I think you start to look at hitting the reset button and selling off these big contracts while they have some value still..

Or i'll give you another scenario: 2 years from now guys like Afflalo or Matthews become available (guys who can spot up and score and play lockdown D.) Melo, Felton, and Chandler are all still doing the same. Shumpert is in his 4th year, developing into an Iguodala-type player (lockdown defender, good second scoring option, all-star candidate.) A lineup of Chandler, Anthony, Shumpert, Felton, and either Afflalo or Matthews can complete with the best of them. Just thinking outloud.

AGAIN, i SEE your point but i don't agree.. in 2 years we should not be building around carmelo and or felton... espcially if we have no rings..

I could understand your point if they revert back to old ways, but if they played like they do now, why break that up/

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

tkf wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

fishmike wrote:fail. Swap Melo with Iggy, Gallo, Paul Pierce... any good 3 and we are still 3-0

Im glad we are winning games rather than losing but we spanked Phili who doesnt have their franchise player and the Heat who didnt want to be there.

Let just be realistic

Hey fishmike, I thought Amare was the best player on the Knicks???

Don't you mean the Knicks won without their franchise player?

he sure isn't being used that way....if this team was being built around amare and the pick and roll, i could see your point tho.. but it isn't..

I'm just teasing fm, since he has topless pics of Amare on his car dashboard, and has a tattoo "STAT4LIFE" on his buttocks...JOKING!

In all seriousness, Knixkik is 100% on the money. Melo is not Lebron, but if you surround him with the right pieces, his team can make a deep a run as anyone (see 2009 WCF). Though, we still need a healthy Amare to be an offensive juggernaut in the 2nd unit, to make a legit run at the crown.

sorry but unless melo cuts back on the ill-advised shots-- i counted at least 4 or 5 last night-- it's going to be tough for the knicks to excel beyond the first round. the flipside of the ill-advised shots: passing out of converging doubles. he did it a few times but you just knew he could not sustain that focus and poise-- his habit is to get shot happy and that isn't going to fly.

7-16 but 1-6 from 3 = shot happy. good news is he is finally defending with some heart and he seems to be finishing at the rim better than i remember him ever as a knickerbocker.

here is a key stat: 54.4% true shooting through 3 games. this is below average for a great scorer. it needs to be a whole lot closer to 60% if he is going truly help the team win in the playoffs. PLAYOFFS

Show me a scorer, I'll show you 5-8 ill-advised shots per game, regardless of the name on the back of the jersey. From Durant, to Kobe, to Pierce, to Wade, all the way down to Lin and JR Smith. Scorer's take tough shots. It happens. You just dont want a team full of tough-shot-takers. One-to-two is more than enough for one team, as long as you surround them with ball-movers, defenders, a spot-up shooter or two, and guys who know their limitations and wont step outside of the system, then you are on your way.

Honestly, you need tough shot takers/makers when things bog down on the playoffs. When the other team puts a cage around your system guys and they cant shake free. When your tendencies are scouted so well, the other team not only knows your play before you call it, but they know your children's names, ya spouses pet name, and where ya momma shops. That tough-shot-taker/maker can beat good defenses.