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The New and Improved Melo?
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Anji
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11/5/2012  9:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2012  9:18 AM
Steps back??? He already went threw that with Karl getting cancer, the trade season and the lockout season.. It's been a tough 2 1/2 years, but he is back on track now.


Funny how you get the a team that supports you and things are easier.

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Bonn1997
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11/5/2012  9:26 AM
jrodmc wrote:Melo can't win.

He smiles too much.

He dives, but he might get hurt.

He plays hard on D, but he doesn't pass enough.

He's in shape, but he's not cut.

We win a few games, and he's still a loser until proven otherwise. Or if he possibly forces a trade to Brooklin.

This small sample size would be enough for the half-full posse here to be calling for his head in a bag if we had lost both.


On a thread where everyone's complimenting him, you complain about this?!

Even as one of his biggest critics, I will say that by and large I love how he has played over the past 26 games (going back to last season).

fishmike
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11/5/2012  9:33 AM
same MElo. He always has great stretches, and decides from time to time to defend and play really hard. After a nice start to the Heat game he did everything he could to shoot us out of a good win. He's taking 6 threes a game. He gets it going with hard work (inside scoring, crashing the boards) then follows those GREAT possesions with lazy shots, usually long contested jumpers with zero chances of an offensive rebound.

People act like the guy is a crappy player. He's never not been good. The question is is he goood enough?

Is this Knick style of play sustainable? So far we look good playing D and sharing the ball, but the 3 point shooting % isnt sustainable. Happy we are winning. Have a ways to go. MElo is MElo. More of the same.

Lets build a style of play that can work in the playoffs. Defense and ball movement look good. Hoping to shoot 45% from downtown? Thats got first round exit written all over it again...

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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11/5/2012  9:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2012  9:41 AM
fishmike wrote:same MElo. He always has great stretches, and decides from time to time to defend and play really hard. After a nice start to the Heat game he did everything he could to shoot us out of a good win. He's taking 6 threes a game. He gets it going with hard work (inside scoring, crashing the boards) then follows those GREAT possesions with lazy shots, usually long contested jumpers with zero chances of an offensive rebound.

People act like the guy is a crappy player. He's never not been good. The question is is he goood enough?

Is this Knick style of play sustainable? So far we look good playing D and sharing the ball, but the 3 point shooting % isnt sustainable. Happy we are winning. Have a ways to go. MElo is MElo. More of the same.

Lets build a style of play that can work in the playoffs. Defense and ball movement look good. Hoping to shoot 45% from downtown? Thats got first round exit written all over it again...


This is why I didn't want to build around him and I don't know if he's just having a good stretch or is a new player. By and large in the end of last season and over the summer Olympics, he was taking better shots. He had terrible shot selection in the first game. I'm hoping that will be just a rare occurrence for him now.
I don't think it's the same Melo though. I can't remember him ever have a long streak (20+ games) of 30+ points on 50+ FG%. With a larger sample, he may revert back to the same Melo, though.
tkf
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11/5/2012  10:10 AM
jrodmc wrote:Melo can't win.

He smiles too much.

He dives, but he might get hurt.

He plays hard on D, but he doesn't pass enough.

He's in shape, but he's not cut.

We win a few games, and he's still a loser until proven otherwise. Or if he possibly forces a trade to Brooklin.

This small sample size would be enough for the half-full posse here to be calling for his head in a bag if we had lost both.

I think all of those are extremes.. but in the end, two games mean nothing, we have 80 more to go.. carmelo is not going to change most fans view of him in just 2 games... but you have to start somewhere. so far, he has done pretty fine, but so has the rest of the team.. too much focus on carmelo, Knicks fans dying for a star moreso than a team that can sustain winning.... carmelo is not lebron, or dirk, or even wade for that matter...he is what he is, and people should appreciate if he plays the game the right way.. nothing more, nothing less... so far kidd has been as much of a leader of this team, he does it on the court with little noise in the media.. the more carmelo does it on the floor and shuts his mouth, and leave the sound bites for someone else, the better off he will be..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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11/5/2012  10:11 AM
tfk.. a little shocked by how good Kidd has been. He does so many thing beyond his stats. He's been really good
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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11/5/2012  10:12 AM
GodNa7ion wrote:He cant win with some of these people

He's been phenomenal aside from the 10/28 night vs Miami- got fouled a lot but still was a monster and his missing his FT's vs Philly

Keep it up Carmelo

so what you are saying is that he was phenomenal just one game... lets keep some perspective, he played well, we are throwing words around like phenomenal... if you want him to "win" lets not over- blow everything he does, good or bad...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/5/2012  10:17 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:I like Melo through the first two games and I have not been his biggest fan/supporter but I try to call it like I see it. I agree with Holfresh (for once ) that he needs to pass the ball more but at least he is passing it more than in times past. Melo attracts so much attention, if he could use that to INTENTIONALLY set up teammates, I think his game goes to a higher level.

What I liked a lot is the affect that Kidd is having on Melo. There was a play last night when Melo wanted the ball but Kidd wouldn't give it to him, he waiting and then hit a wide open player cutting, right under the basket. I think Kidd is going to really raise Melo's game. Intelligence just rubs off.

I've said this before, Melo has too much talent to be wasted with his selfish play. We saw him changing away from that play during a stretch last year. But, it is tough to go away from what you have done your whole life. But winning will slowly do that to you (as well as playing with other veterans - like on the Olympic team and now!). However, I don't think it is just a clicking or moment when it happens. Probably he will take a few steps back but hopefully, eventually, keep going forward and then it will it him for good.

very good post, and again, habits are not broken in just 2 games, he had a good game yesterday vs the sixers, but most important the other knick players guys like Kidd and JR smith are playing well.. that should be just as important.. way too often we hear, carmelo is leading us, Carmelo was phenomenal, carmelo is the new dirk, I mean just way too much, and with that kind of extreme praise which is really not just at this point, comes extreme criticism which also may not be just at this point as well.

So far the knicks are 2-0, but lets keep perspective, so are the orlando magic and milwaukee bucks.. to take nothing from the knicks, they have played hard and together, but I still see some troubling issues... No involvement of chandler, too many threes, no pick and roll, but hopefully these things get ironed out... nice to start 2-0 but lets give it some time and hope the solid play continues....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/5/2012  10:19 AM
Anji wrote:Steps back??? He already went threw that with Karl getting cancer, the trade season and the lockout season.. It's been a tough 2 1/2 years, but he is back on track now.


Funny how you get the a team that supports you and things are easier.

this is more than support, the knicks acquiesced to his every wishes it seemed, so now the pressure is on him and this team to deliver...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
ChuckBuck
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11/5/2012  10:23 AM
I see tkf is slowly coming around to cancer boy.

Win tonight and I can see full blown Homer Simpson from tkf!

tkf
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11/5/2012  10:25 AM
fishmike wrote:tfk.. a little shocked by how good Kidd has been. He does so many thing beyond his stats. He's been really good

fish, I stated earlier in another thread a month ago.. if kidd can turn the clock back every 3rd or 4th game, the knicks will have a real shot to have a good season.. I just think kidd is that effective, his age and mileage worries me long term tho... His IQ is off the charts.. as I said, go back and look at the season he came in second to duncan in MVP voting..the year he should have won, had he not been playing Mike tyson with his wife... Kidd shot40%, averaged around 15pts/10asst/7 boards...

very good stats but MVP worthy? No, it was his effect on the nets that made the difference.. His style of play goes beyond stats...

but so far, I have been shocked by his energy.. he looks pretty spry out there.. LOL

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/5/2012  10:26 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:I see tkf is slowly coming around to cancer boy.

Win tonight and I can see full blown Homer Simpson from tkf!

don't bet on it man.. I still feel the same way.. just being fair... if he plays in a selfish way, I will let him have it.. if he gives effort it should be noted... thats all...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
ChuckBuck
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11/5/2012  10:27 AM
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:I see tkf is slowly coming around to cancer boy.

Win tonight and I can see full blown Homer Simpson from tkf!

don't bet on it man.. I still feel the same way.. just being fair... if he plays in a selfish way, I will let him have it.. if he gives effort it should be noted... thats all...

Baby steps...

mrKnickShot
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11/5/2012  10:29 AM
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:I see tkf is slowly coming around to cancer boy.

Win tonight and I can see full blown Homer Simpson from tkf!

don't bet on it man.. I still feel the same way.. just being fair... if he plays in a selfish way, I will let him have it.. if he gives effort it should be noted... thats all...

Awwwwwwwww - TKF wants to come back and hug his family - he just needs a good reason.

I AM CHOKED UP MYSELF

tkf
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11/5/2012  10:39 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:
tkf wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:I see tkf is slowly coming around to cancer boy.

Win tonight and I can see full blown Homer Simpson from tkf!

don't bet on it man.. I still feel the same way.. just being fair... if he plays in a selfish way, I will let him have it.. if he gives effort it should be noted... thats all...

Baby steps...

Here is the thing, it is about getting it done.. do it and it doesn't matter what people think, they will have to recognize.. so far I feel the same way about carmelo, and probably always will, not a fan of his at all.... but if he produces and we win, then you have to at least recognize....

You know how it is.. lebron is not my favorite person, heck not sure how many people like the guy at all, but his work on the court, talent and winning, forces you to recognize....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
foosballnick
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11/5/2012  10:40 AM
There isn't a star player in the NBA that doesn't play selfish at times. To expect perfection out of Melo or this tea is setting yourself up for dissapointment. I expect improvement in a team game, that's what we've seen so far. There will be nights and stretches where Melo and the Knicks faulted. Just the way it is to be human.
3G4G
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11/5/2012  10:44 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/5/2012  10:47 AM
I don't think he looks too much different than back half of last year. The one thing he does appear to be doing is playing better help D. He's still putting up a ton of shots, not passing as much as he should. If he makes a decent amount of them, not that big a deal but if he doesn't it can become a problem.

tkf mentioned the same problems I see and when they surface I want to see how we adjust.

NYKBocker
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11/5/2012  10:45 AM
foosballnick wrote:There isn't a star player in the NBA that doesn't play selfish at times. To expect perfection out of Melo or this tea is setting yourself up for dissapointment. I expect improvement in a team game, that's what we've seen so far. There will be nights and stretches where Melo and the Knicks faulted. Just the way it is to be human.

The superstar players that win championships are all selfish, but their selfishness is positively directed. They want to win ALL the time and they view selfish play as a hindrance to their main selfish goal which is to win every game they can play.

earthmansurfer
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11/5/2012  11:02 AM
Anji wrote:Steps back??? He already went threw that with Karl getting cancer, the trade season and the lockout season.. It's been a tough 2 1/2 years, but he is back on track now.


Funny how you get the a team that supports you and things are easier.

Steps back have nothing to do with a tough life or tough situations to be in. Those you have little control over. By steps back I mean it in the traditional "phrasal" way. His play will probably take steps back into selfish mode. Ok, enough star players do that on occasion, but Melo does (or rather did) it as a matter of habit. There is a big difference there.

I will never be the fan of a selfish player as they generally get no where, but a great basketball player with a high IQ that knows when to be "selfish", now that is a different story. And when you see those players you can see they understand the game and it isn't true selfishness, but just an expression of their IQ.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
IrishKnickFan
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11/5/2012  11:25 AM
very impressed by melo. i admit i have never been a huge melo fan but he deserves props. he came into this season in great shape. His defense has been great so far and his effort that i always knew he had is showing. He will definetly be a MVP candidate if he plays like this all year
The New and Improved Melo?

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