mrKnickShot wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:All this positive love stuff...Where are u going with that...Even the dudes who claim to be positive are negative here...See above...I get what you are saying tho...I wish I can be as positive as your are...It all depends on Amare getting back healthy...Melo needs a second option...I'm not as high on Chandler as you are...He is great in a team defense sort of way..He offers nothing else really...JR will definitely help..He looks like he lost some weight as well...He can play defense and can get hot off the bench..Until Novak can hit a shot with a hand in his face a la Ray Allen, I'm not sold...People know how well he shoots from the three and won't let him take those open threes he hit so effortlessly...I have no faith in the old guys..This game is even more athletic now than it used to be..Look at the top teams..OKC and Miami have thoroughbreds..They want to run u off the court...Boston is adding youth..We went the other way...But let's see, our core is less than 30, so health is what's holding us back...I'm positive...Let's see..

Ibaka is a better defender than Tyson, a far better shot blocker and he can actually now hit the open shot which stretches the defense.

Ibaka may block more shots but he is not a better defender. While going for blocks he often leaves his responsibilities and leaves opportunities for points and rebounds.

I agree with this... Ibaka is a good player and like holfresh said he has a ton of upside. However, Serge Ibaka is not the same type of on the ball defender as, say, Bruce Bowen was

He is certainly not as good as bowen in man to man but Chandler is not either as an on ball defender.

Not for the quicker guys but Chandler guards guys like Bynum and Howard better than anyone in the league, in my opinion anyway

ChuckBuck wrote:Can't believe guys are dumping on Tyson Chandler now. He was arguably the most consistent Knick, communicator on defense, the Defensive Player of the Year, and team MVP...

He didn't show up when we needed him most..In the playoffs...

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Can't believe guys are dumping on Tyson Chandler now. He was arguably the most consistent Knick, communicator on defense, the Defensive Player of the Year, and team MVP...

He didn't show up when we needed him most..In the playoffs...

I don't think you can excuse his regular season body of work from just those 5 games. Don't think Melo, Stat, Novak, etc had good a playoff series against Miami either.

SupremeCommander wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:All this positive love stuff...Where are u going with that...Even the dudes who claim to be positive are negative here...See above...I get what you are saying tho...I wish I can be as positive as your are...It all depends on Amare getting back healthy...Melo needs a second option...I'm not as high on Chandler as you are...He is great in a team defense sort of way..He offers nothing else really...JR will definitely help..He looks like he lost some weight as well...He can play defense and can get hot off the bench..Until Novak can hit a shot with a hand in his face a la Ray Allen, I'm not sold...People know how well he shoots from the three and won't let him take those open threes he hit so effortlessly...I have no faith in the old guys..This game is even more athletic now than it used to be..Look at the top teams..OKC and Miami have thoroughbreds..They want to run u off the court...Boston is adding youth..We went the other way...But let's see, our core is less than 30, so health is what's holding us back...I'm positive...Let's see..

Ibaka is a better defender than Tyson, a far better shot blocker and he can actually now hit the open shot which stretches the defense.

Ibaka may block more shots but he is not a better defender. While going for blocks he often leaves his responsibilities and leaves opportunities for points and rebounds.

I agree with this... Ibaka is a good player and like holfresh said he has a ton of upside. However, Serge Ibaka is not the same type of on the ball defender as, say, Bruce Bowen was

He is certainly not as good as bowen in man to man but Chandler is not either as an on ball defender.

Not for the quicker guys but Chandler guards guys like Bynum and Howard better than anyone in the league, in my opinion anyway

He does do a great job on Howard

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Can't believe guys are dumping on Tyson Chandler now. He was arguably the most consistent Knick, communicator on defense, the Defensive Player of the Year, and team MVP...

He didn't show up when we needed him most..In the playoffs...

I don't think you can excuse his regular season body of work from just those 5 games. Don't think Melo, Stat, Novak, etc had good a playoff series against Miami either.

I have a theory about playoffs basketball...It reveals exactly who you are...I just think Chandler was sick and had a bad series...That's all good, but come next year, it can't happen again...Novak really disappointed me..He could not get off his own shot, nothing will change this year either, he has to learn to shoot with guys in his face...Melo needed help, period...He has been the only guy carrying us for two years now...JR sucked in the playoffs..STAT was, well missing again...We have to put guys out there who u know will be standing in the playoffs..Guys who can contribute, otherwise it's all pointless...

Our best PG being Bibby was the main issue.

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Can't believe guys are dumping on Tyson Chandler now. He was arguably the most consistent Knick, communicator on defense, the Defensive Player of the Year, and team MVP...

He didn't show up when we needed him most..In the playoffs...

I don't think you can excuse his regular season body of work from just those 5 games. Don't think Melo, Stat, Novak, etc had good a playoff series against Miami either.

I have a theory about playoffs basketball...It reveals exactly who you are...I just think Chandler was sick and had a bad series...That's all good, but come next year, it can't happen again...Novak really disappointed me..He could not get off his own shot, nothing will change this year either, he has to learn to shoot with guys in his face...Melo needed help, period...He has been the only guy carrying us for two years now...JR sucked in the playoffs..STAT was, well missing again...We have to put guys out there who u know will be standing in the playoffs..Guys who can contribute, otherwise it's all pointless...

Can't argue with those points at all. No more excuses.

Oh ... the excuses will come. Everyone will excuse different players though depending on their stance.

Unless we win!

Then, then we will be left with just the habitual kvetchers.

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Can't believe guys are dumping on Tyson Chandler now. He was arguably the most consistent Knick, communicator on defense, the Defensive Player of the Year, and team MVP...

He didn't show up when we needed him most..In the playoffs...

I don't think you can excuse his regular season body of work from just those 5 games. Don't think Melo, Stat, Novak, etc had good a playoff series against Miami either.

I have a theory about playoffs basketball...It reveals exactly who you are...I just think Chandler was sick and had a bad series...That's all good, but come next year, it can't happen again...Novak really disappointed me..He could not get off his own shot, nothing will change this year either, he has to learn to shoot with guys in his face...Melo needed help, period...He has been the only guy carrying us for two years now...JR sucked in the playoffs..STAT was, well missing again...We have to put guys out there who u know will be standing in the playoffs..Guys who can contribute, otherwise it's all pointless...

Can't argue with those points at all. No more excuses.

Oh ... the excuses will come. Everyone will excuse different players though depending on their stance.

Unless we win!

Then, then we will be left with just the habitual kvetchers.

If we don't show that we are moving in the right direction this season, we have to make major changes...I mean trading STAT,Melo,Felton,Chandler and the rest of the crew...We have to scrap this and start over...Imagine next year we are here wondering if Amare will be healthy again or is some other dude going to hit his jumpers this season...

mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

holfresh wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Can't believe guys are dumping on Tyson Chandler now. He was arguably the most consistent Knick, communicator on defense, the Defensive Player of the Year, and team MVP...

He didn't show up when we needed him most..In the playoffs...

I don't think you can excuse his regular season body of work from just those 5 games. Don't think Melo, Stat, Novak, etc had good a playoff series against Miami either.

I have a theory about playoffs basketball...It reveals exactly who you are...I just think Chandler was sick and had a bad series...That's all good, but come next year, it can't happen again...Novak really disappointed me..He could not get off his own shot, nothing will change this year either, he has to learn to shoot with guys in his face...Melo needed help, period...He has been the only guy carrying us for two years now...JR sucked in the playoffs..STAT was, well missing again...We have to put guys out there who u know will be standing in the playoffs..Guys who can contribute, otherwise it's all pointless...

Can't argue with those points at all. No more excuses.

Oh ... the excuses will come. Everyone will excuse different players though depending on their stance.

Unless we win!

Then, then we will be left with just the habitual kvetchers.

If we don't show that we are moving in the right direction this season, we have to make major changes...I mean trading STAT,Melo,Felton,Chandler and the rest of the crew...We have to scrap this and start over...Imagine next year we are here wondering if Amare will be healthy again or is some other dude going to hit his jumpers this season...

Yes that would suck though a very plausible scenario.

I still think Felton is the key and that is not good.

How was his last game?

3G4G wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:With all the negativity on this board (the most i have ever seen) and hate towards Melo as a player, Melo trade, Lin etc, i really want to put a couple of things into perspective. When was the last time we had a top 5 offensive player and top 5 defensive player on this team? Have we ever? That is what both Melo and Chandler are. Other teams who have this: Miami (Lebron is both), LA Lakers (Kobe, Dwight), and OKC (Durant, Ibaka.) That's it, just 3 others teams.

This team has some major work to do and questions to be answered, mostly centered around Stoudemire with his ability to stay healthy and ability to co-exist with Anthony. But for now, this team will only go as far as Melo and Chandler take it. As long as they are healthy, we will be a very good team. Probably win 50 games or better. We will have the best season we have had since the 90s. And then as the season ends we can evaluate where we are at. Hopefully Felton is the answer at PG. Hopefully Shumpert comes back healthy and resumes his starting role. Hopefully Kidd, Smith, Novak, Camby, etc solidify the bench moving forward. Hopefully Stoudemire becomes the 2nd socring option we need and fits into a role (starter, 6th man, etc.) If not, we can make adjustments. Stoudemire will only have 2 years left on his deal, someone will take a flyer on him. We will find a second scorer to replace him. Until then, let's assume that Anthony and Chandler will carry this team and the rest will fall into place and our many questions will be asnwered. I think this is a good team no matter what though. We saw it towards the end of last regular season, and i think with our improved depth we will pick up where we left off.

I had a really nice reply written out, and then I did something stupid and lost it.

Anyway, Knicks messageboard users are conditioned to bitch and moan about the Knicks. Since the boards started the Knicks have really started to suck. Between Layden, Tapscott, Isiah, Marbury, Dolan, and anyone else I'm forgetting, there's been a lot to bitch about.

So a lot of posters--especially guys that came from Real GM (like me)--really care about winning an argument and being right than they actually do about watching the team play ball and hope that they improve.

There are issues all over the roster, and some people may hate the philosophy, and others hate the loss of Lin, and they'd do it different. Well who cares? Just watch the team and recognize that the Knicks have a chance to be pretty good.

When the addition of Marbury set us back and the addition of Curry set us back.....were Knick fans then supposed to do the same then? Root for the team with gLee since on paper because the team was better than the Howard Eisley Shandon Anderson led Knicks? Well some did back then and stood up for this team to unconscious homeristic levels and got torched to a smelter of near no return. They don't have to do this again. Let me qualify this by saying it's not like these caliber of fans are going to overthrow the team with fan mutiny but undying blind support they don't have to give nor should.

There are too many similar things going on in this organization that are negative.

Remember when Marbury from afar said...."Knicks will never will a championship with Charlie Ward and Chris Childs as point guards? Remember when Mabury declared himself as the "Best Point Guard In The NBA"

Well Fast forward...

Melo says to the Press..."It's not up to me it's up to the Knicks if they want to match that ridiculous contract" and "I feel my time is coming if not this year then next year"

We're still throwing away assets like they don't matter. We still draft players and never build around them or extend them. We still have players popping off at the mouth before the season gets underway about how they are a renewed being and what they've been working on, and how they'll come back different.

I am not trying to win arguments as I have on a few occasions gone back and replied in some threads....

"I stand corrected" or "I'd like to make a correction to something I posted"

As the saying goes.....

STAND FOR SOMETHING OR FALL FOR ANYTHING

see, I don't think what i stand for or what you stand for matters at all, really. It really matters what guys like Melo stand for. I see the most well decorated Team USA player there is. I also choose to see a NCAA champion. I'm hopeful for NY Knicks champion but we'll see. I understand that people think Melo doesn't stand for **** but everyone's entitled to their opinion. So who cares about the philosophy of what should matter? you can be skeptical but enjoy the ride for cripe's sake!

I love what Chandler brings to the team and I always wanted him to be a Knick
and
I am not pointing a finger at him, but offensively our big 3 does not mesh, it doesn't matter what you rate each player.

Noah >>>> in all aspects of the game, offensively and defensively

only think Chandler has over Noah is experience

I never believed Noah would be able to become a starter, watching him in Florida, but he is a top center in the league after D12/Bynum, on par with Gasol brothers, I prefer Noah after D12/Bynum.
Noah is very quick/mobile moving like a forward, with the speed/quickness and very good athleticism and length to go with it.
The difference between D12 and Bynum is the speed/quickness, especially as the help defender, they both can cover much more ground because of it, to go with their length/athleticism/size/strength.
He is a post up game, good passer, can handle the ball, penetrate/finish surprisingly for a center, moves very well off the ball.

Our PG play is mediocre at its best and we went OVER THE HILL with too many aged vets.
Felton is the only that can penetrate while KIDD is not a threat, and Pablo just has no speed.
Penetration/ability to finish strong with contract, ability to handle the ball, speed/quickness is what breaks DEFENSES down and was the reason why Lin was so sucessfull and improved our overall team play.

In fact, I think we have the worst PG tandem in our entire division offensively and defensively

Deron/Watson/Taylor - Joe Johnson can play PG/SG/SF
Rondo/Terry/Bradley/Barbosa
Lowry/Calderon/Lucas
Holiday/Royal Ivey/Maalik Wayns

Felton/Kidd/Pablo

Look as why Chicago/Miami has always been one of the top defensive teams in the entire league.

Chicago
===========
It starts with speed/quickness

Noah/Deng/Taj Gibson

Hinrich/RIP *although dirty player* they are both very smart/high IQ players on both ends.

they are all very quick/fast, with legit size/length/ to go with their athleticism, while not being undersized at those positions.
great Team Defenses start with 1v1 DEFENSE.

Heat
==========
Lebron/Wade/Battier are all lock down defensive players

Cole/Bosh

a lot of people over rate the Knicks, I guess it sometimes comes natural as fans.
But it usually takes away their judgement and ability to analyze.

I love what Chandler brings to the team and I always wanted him to be a Knick
and
I am not pointing a finger at him, but offensively our big 3 does not mesh, it doesn't matter what you rate each player.

Noah >>>> in all aspects of the game, offensively and defensively

only think Chandler has over Noah is experience

I never believed Noah would be able to become a starter, watching him in Florida, but he is a top center in the league after D12/Bynum, on par with Gasol brothers, I prefer Noah after D12/Bynum.
Noah is very quick/mobile moving like a forward, with the speed/quickness and very good athleticism and length to go with it.
The difference between D12 and Bynum is the speed/quickness, especially as the help defender, they both can cover much more ground because of it, to go with their length/athleticism/size/strength.
He is a post up game, good passer, can handle the ball, penetrate/finish surprisingly for a center, moves very well off the ball.

Our PG play is mediocre at its best and we went OVER THE HILL with too many aged vets.
Felton is the only that can penetrate while KIDD is not a threat, and Pablo just has no speed.
Penetration/ability to finish strong with contract, ability to handle the ball, speed/quickness is what breaks DEFENSES down and was the reason why Lin was so sucessfull and improved our overall team play.

In fact, I think we have the worst PG tandem in our entire division offensively and defensively

Deron/Watson/Taylor - Joe Johnson can play PG/SG/SF
Rondo/Terry/Bradley/Barbosa
Lowry/Calderon/Lucas
Holiday/Royal Ivey/Maalik Wayns

Felton/Kidd/Pablo

Look as why Chicago/Miami has always been one of the top defensive teams in the entire league.

Chicago
===========
It starts with speed/quickness

Noah/Deng/Taj Gibson

Hinrich/RIP *although dirty player* they are both very smart/high IQ players on both ends.

they are all very quick/fast, with legit size/length/ to go with their athleticism, while not being undersized at those positions.
great Team Defenses start with 1v1 DEFENSE.

Heat
==========
Lebron/Wade/Battier are all lock down defensive players

Cole/Bosh