SupremeCommander wrote:I don't think so... The Knicks barely made the postseason with nothing at either guard spot heading into last season. Let's just say they barely creep in again... you'd prefer veterans on the team. Hopefully they get younger talent to replace these guys when they retire. But it could be a lot worse and it was worse heading into last year

I'd prefer players with talent who can still play basketball.

holfresh wrote:We tossed a lot of money at quite a few old guys this past summer...They weren't ready for this pace against the Sixers..KIdd was done two years ago...KT is done...Camby still isn't ready to play...Sheed hasn't been seen as of yet...More importantly there is a huge hole behind Amare with no one to fill it...

wow you're giving up after 5 preseason games interesting

Let's be clear, bringing in Tyson Chandler was a bad decision then and now. He didn't really change the face of the franshise. You need an All Star point guard to make the guy effective. He's one of the worst offensive players in the league and he's making 14MM. Amare is seriously injured and we don't have the amnesty to use because of that move. So we have one guy that can score the ball.

Jason Kidd was a terrible signing. HE was done last year and we gave him three years. CJ Watson would have been smarter for a year or two. Hell you got Felton for 3MM, the raptors got lowry for a first round pick, the Jazz got Foye for nothing.

This team blows, we have one guy on the entire roster with upside, Shumpert. And he has injury concerns. We went from a young team with cap space to old team with none. If someone takes Melo out of the game we have no place to go. I just don't see how it's not clear.

10MM is a lot of money tied up in Kidd, Camby, Novak.

SupremeCommander wrote:

VCoug wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I don't think so... The Knicks barely made the postseason with nothing at either guard spot heading into last season. Let's just say they barely creep in again... you'd prefer veterans on the team. Hopefully they get younger talent to replace these guys when they retire. But it could be a lot worse and it was worse heading into last year

I'd prefer players with talent who can still play basketball.

I think all those guys are talented and will be much better by the end of the year than they are in preseason

whereas I'd be a little worried if some 25 year old who could jump out of the gym wasn't performing.... the vets have earned the benefit of the doubt, at least in my opinion

While I disagree with the age thing since there some good teams with a young nucleus in the NBA today, the fact is that the Knicks didn’t have to sign 40 years old players either, especially 3 of them, (may be 4 with wallace) way too many in my opinion.

NYKBocker wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

MS wrote:Let's be clear, bringing in Tyson Chandler was a bad decision then and now. He didn't really change the face of the franshise. You need an All Star point guard to make the guy effective. He's one of the worst offensive players in the league and he's making 14MM. Amare is seriously injured and we don't have the amnesty to use because of that move. So we have one guy that can score the ball.

I won't go into the rest of your post, but I couldn't disagree more about Tyson Chandler. Chandler is the exact type of player the Knicks should *always* target... a defensive stud who doesn't require the basketball to make a dent on the game. Howard and maybe Bynum are the only true centers clearly better than Chandler. I don't think I'm forgetting anyone else

Tyson will regress this year offensively. The only time he will be effective offensively is when Pablo is in with him. Remember, in Felton's first stint, he had problems executing the PnR.

If he gets 3.8 PPG on 32% from the field I'll still want him to play 30-35 mpg

But you're right, Felton sucks at the PnR. I'm actually a bit excited at the prospect of the PnR being run primarily through Melo with Amar'e or Chandler

NUPE wrote:So, we have reached these conclusions based upon the pre-season?!?! :D

I've based these conclusions on the last several seasons I've watched these guys play. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and every single player on the team is going to play better than they have over the last several seasons.

holfresh wrote:We tossed a lot of money at quite a few old guys this past summer...They weren't ready for this pace against the Sixers..KIdd was done two years ago...KT is done...Camby still isn't ready to play...Sheed hasn't been seen as of yet...More importantly there is a huge hole behind Amare with no one to fill it...

Those guys are just backups- Kurt is fine for 8-10 mins a game, Kidd is a back up (with Felton, Shump, Brewer, JR Smith and Pablo we really don't need much from him)- I didn't like it when we signed him but since then it's become clear he was brought in for his bball smarts. If he realises after this season he sucks, he'll retire- I really don't see him coming back for the third year (at which point he becomes a way of another team saving 3 mil in a trade.)

Camby and Sheed haven't played so lets wait til they do before we judge them. Lets be honest, I liked Jorts, but he sucked after injuring his wrist (WHAT?! Young players can get injured too!?).

This team is a gamble- if the starters are healthy, it should all fit together- when they are injured it forces the vets into a bigger role than they should have. But really, White and Copeland look like they can contribute so it's not that bad.

Melo was down right bad the first half of the season and then was downright on fire down the stretch. We can't rely on one guy to score all the points. JR will be able to score some, but we essentially are a worse version of the Nuggets when they had Billups, Camby, KMart, Smith. You don't break something down to build something medicore.

Most fans didn't want JKidd on a three year deal three years ago. Thomas I like, but we needed his defense two years ago. What you're seeing and what you always see is bad management, no vision, let's just throw **** up against the wall and hope it works out. Ala last season let's amnesty a PG to bring in a center that doesn't work with our overpaid power forward go into the season without a point guard and hope Melo can be the point forward.

mrKnickShot wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

MS wrote:Let's be clear, bringing in Tyson Chandler was a bad decision then and now. He didn't really change the face of the franshise. You need an All Star point guard to make the guy effective. He's one of the worst offensive players in the league and he's making 14MM. Amare is seriously injured and we don't have the amnesty to use because of that move. So we have one guy that can score the ball.

I won't go into the rest of your post, but I couldn't disagree more about Tyson Chandler. Chandler is the exact type of player the Knicks should *always* target... a defensive stud who doesn't require the basketball to make a dent on the game. Howard and maybe Bynum are the only true centers clearly better than Chandler. I don't think I'm forgetting anyone else

I absolutely agree with him. Tyson is a very solid player but was/is not even close to being worth his 14m plus having to carry Amare's 20m since we no longer have an amnesty.

And, by doing this, we gave MDA Tony Douglass to be his PG. WHAT???? Talk about screwing your coach.

Many thought this was a big risk and called it out when they signed him.

we definetly overpaid for tyson but i still think he is a very good defensice center i just wish he could score more

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:
We tossed a lot of money at quite a few old guys this past summer...They weren't ready for this pace against the Sixers..KIdd was done two years ago...KT is done...Camby still isn't ready to play...Sheed hasn't been seen as of yet...More importantly there is a huge hole behind Amare with no one to fill...

lol.. i WAS called a hater for having the same concerns.. you are funny dude....

Did I call u a hater for voicing your displeasure against signing these old did???..I'm willing to bet no one went on an all out rant the way I did the moment we signed Kidd....

holfresh you have been MR homer it seems.. if I am wrong, I apologize... why the negativity now after just a few preseason games.. I agree with you here of course, but don't you think you are overeacting a bit considering how positive you have been?

dk7th wrote:blaming grunwald for this roster is misguided. he is just another one of dolan's mediocre lackeys, along with woodson. woodson is the very definition of mediocre, getting through the regular season with a respectable record only to be annihilated in second round play.

both of these dolan marionettes are trying to clean up the mess dolan created when he tore down walsh's plans.

the knicks prior to melo needed an upgrade at point guard, as was mentioned. felton was and remains inadequate which is why the wise walsh had him on a two-year audition contract. yet here he is again out of sheer desperation. lots of denial among the knick faithful on this point-- bad pun intended.

on a side note: walsh's last move was to draft shumpert and harrellson-- grunwald did not draft either. prior to that walsh drafted fields. someone mentioned that grunwald drafted shumpert and that is just not true.

all of this maneuvering traces itself back to february 2010. there's simply no way around it. it is quite clear that the talent we lost is indeed not so easy to replace and the ensuing chaos makes it even harder. so the acquisition of chandler was necessary ONLY because the team became a chaotic pile of cow patties and he was the best player available as opposed to an upgrade according to a plan. nothing against chandler because i really really like him even if his game is a bit one-sided. but he, like stoudemire, needs a top flight pick and roll point guard in order to be effective on offense. ironic that he was acquired in lieu of such a player.

this is what happens when you make an ill-advised trade and simultaneously scrap a plan. no amount of chest-beating is going to cover it up.

very well said DK.....

sad thing is, even when we got a mulligan at the PG position we crapped that away.... wow.. just wow..

all of this maneuvering traces itself back to february 2010. there's simply no way around it.

nope, there sure isn't...

it is quite clear that the talent we lost is indeed not so easy to replace and the ensuing chaos makes it even harder.

I have pointed this out so many times.. but the response is.. " it is harder to get a star player than to replace those guys".....

funny thing.... they are right... we still don't have a Legitimate star and we haven't replaced the guys we got rid of either.... Brewer, prigs, 40 year old kidd, and copeland are not replacements...