VCoug wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

But, but, but Felton is in the best shape of his career!

somehow, i heard that one before as well... LOL...

arkrud wrote:

nixluva wrote:I disagree with Hollinger here. For one thing I don't actually think that STAT and Melo can't work together. They aren't going to work if you don't have good PG play to make sure everything is balanced on the floor. That has been one of the big issues with this team. Having Felton changes that equation. Having played with STAT and been successful in having chemistry with him makes all the difference in the world. I think Hollinger is being a bit harsh and dismissive of Felton as a player. He's not as bad as he's being made out to be. Felton has certain strengths and I think they meld with the way this team wants to play. Felton isn't a good shooter but he is strong and has some quickness.

As long as the ball is moving this team is gonna be hard to stop. They have legit threats everywhere and the only missing piece was real passing PG's. The guys we have now are not turnover prone. This team should really benefit from the experience and high BB IQ of the PG's we have now. I think too often reviewers overlook the simple things and just look at individual players. If you look at Felton, Kidd and Prigioni individually they aren't impressive, but that's not how they should be judged. You have to look at how all the parts of the team work together. We have high level finishers and so you need PG's that can work PnR and pass effectively. That's what we have now. PG's that think pass 1st. STAT, Melo, Tyson, Smith and Novak can all finish better with great passes and that's how it's gonna work much better than last year.

Melo, Stat, and Chandler on the court at the same time is a disaster.
2 players who are most efficient 15 fit in and one who can only score in close.
There is not enough space and balls for them at the same time.
You can use 2 people to defend all 3 and have others take care about our backcourt which is no fast at all and cannot penetrate.
This group is cool on paper and they can blow bad defenses open but any solid defensive team will stop this lineup easily and any running young team will run over them all day long.
This lineup is teh worst we can use and I hope it will not be used at all.

You are basing this on what you saw last year and that's a mistake. Both STAT and Melo had horrid shooting performances last year. They won't shoot that poorly again. They were both way below their career statistics. If STAT was hitting his jumper at normal rates teams wouldn't have been able to defend us so easily.

Now with a real plan that also includes the addition of more post play, they should be able to space the floor much better than last year. Don't get caught up in the past as most of the Media and some fans keep doing. This team is not the same as last year. This is the best Knicks team we've had in a decade in terms of balance. 3 real PG's that specialize in passing. We haven't had this much passing in a long time. As long as they execute as they should this team should be hard to stop.

Woody has mixed in plays that feature motion, ball movement and post play and that should change things up so defenses don't get used to everything we do. In fact this team is pretty flexible in terms of how it can play offensively. They can spread the floor and go MDA style or go old school Pistons style half court.

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

Name the talent we lost...Gallo, 15 pt per game guy??...Will the same??..We were a .500 team with them...Amare and Felton were our two best players that year...Are we not better now than we were before the trade??...Felton was awesome last time he was here..Borderline all star...I'm not sure why u think I would change my tune...He was beloved last time he was here...I really don't get where the Felton dislike comes from, well I do get it , but it makes no sense....

GREAT ok, lets talk about record first of all that team was 28-26 that is above .500, not .500.... with carmelo we finished the season 36-30, we know carmelo missed most of linsanity, we know he didn't play during that 8-1 stretch, actually he played 65 minutes of that utah game.... so if you factor that in to the overall record with melo we are 28-29 and the year prior to when we made this "ridiculous"trade we were 14-14 with melo... add that up... that is 42-43 below .500

And lets not bring felton into this.. I really don't like or dislike felton, what I don't like is how you guys are now hyping him up in a feeble attempt to downplay letting lin go.....

28 games pre trade

12-16

final 28 games - post trade

14-14

Priceless!

mrKnickShot wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

Name the talent we lost...Gallo, 15 pt per game guy??...Will the same??..We were a .500 team with them...Amare and Felton were our two best players that year...Are we not better now than we were before the trade??...Felton was awesome last time he was here..Borderline all star...I'm not sure why u think I would change my tune...He was beloved last time he was here...I really don't get where the Felton dislike comes from, well I do get it , but it makes no sense....

GREAT ok, lets talk about record first of all that team was 28-26 that is above .500, not .500.... with carmelo we finished the season 36-30, we know carmelo missed most of linsanity, we know he didn't play during that 8-1 stretch, actually he played 65 minutes of that utah game.... so if you factor that in to the overall record with melo we are 28-29 and the year prior to when we made this "ridiculous"trade we were 14-14 with melo... add that up... that is 42-43 below .500

And lets not bring felton into this.. I really don't like or dislike felton, what I don't like is how you guys are now hyping him up in a feeble attempt to downplay letting lin go.....

28 games pre trade

12-16

final 28 games - post trade

14-14

Priceless!

This post doesn't make any sense....

The team prior to the Melo trade was 28-26 after 54gms since then Melo had played approximately 85gms give or take 2-3gms and the team overall record is 42-43.

So with a 31gm difference between 1 team compared to two different Melo led teams and 2 off-seasons of moves I guess the pre-trade team wasn't going get better. Which means none of you had any confidence in that team or mgmt to improve it going forward.

Now ask yourself how is that any different than how current fans who aren't feeling this team feel?

Math is math. Numbers don't lie. And if we wanted to makes excuses there were a couple to be made for the first team but I won't because I don't make excuses as a fan.

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:

tkf wrote:

holfresh wrote:Obviously written well before the pre-season started...

AS IT SHOULD BE.. OR are you telling me they should put a lot of stock in pre-season games?

or are you saying after these stunning two preseason wins he should now change his tune to 55 wins?

Well yeah...I'm actually looking at Felton and think he is key to what we want to do this season...He has run an efficiently offense thus far and more importantly he is in shape...I think that was a big question mark going in...Now let's get Melo, Amare, Chandler and Felton on the same page...Let's rock this motha...I'm pumped...What's huge is that we will be playing defense as a team...If u saw the end of last season, we won games we usually lost because our defensive intensity was much higher...I'm looking at a 50 win team in my opinion...

a reasonable analyst and journalist should not be making real observations based on pre-season.. if felton is key and you want someone to drastically change their view of your team, then felton needs to be burning through preseason, and he just hasn't... again, even if felton sucked, I would not take so much from preseason...

tell me, how many wins did you have the warriors having this year? 30-35? well they are 3-1, denver is 3-0, the kings are 2-0.. what should we take from that? miami is 1-2, boston is 1-3, are they slippin?

so far in 2 games, felton is average 7/7 and shooting 31%.... last year deron williams aveaged 21/8 shot 40% and someone (i forgot who) said that was Horrendous...

go figure.. right? felton is not playing that well bro..

Come now son, you have been watching basketball for some time now..At least I have that impression...Preseason isn't about wins and losses, it's about getting in basketball shape...Felton is there...He was throwing the alley hoops that you thought only Lin could do...Felton was in command of the offense, huge...It's what we need...We are seeing glimpses of what could be...Now we will spend the next two or three months establishing an offensive identity behind our defense...It won't happen day one or even a month into the season...This is about finding a way to win as a team, it isn't about individual accolades...

good point.. so then why do you so strongly cosign the carmelo trade that shredded this team of talent and picks.. at team that was establishing an identity.. you see son, it is so easy to throw out these cliche's another thing to truly mean it... I have seen enough of felton to know and understand that by mid season you will be screaming another tune... either that or lying to yourself about him and this team........ still..

Name the talent we lost...Gallo, 15 pt per game guy??...Will the same??..We were a .500 team with them...Amare and Felton were our two best players that year...Are we not better now than we were before the trade??...Felton was awesome last time he was here..Borderline all star...I'm not sure why u think I would change my tune...He was beloved last time he was here...I really don't get where the Felton dislike comes from, well I do get it , but it makes no sense....

GREAT ok, lets talk about record first of all that team was 28-26 that is above .500, not .500.... with carmelo we finished the season 36-30, we know carmelo missed most of linsanity, we know he didn't play during that 8-1 stretch, actually he played 65 minutes of that utah game.... so if you factor that in to the overall record with melo we are 28-29 and the year prior to when we made this "ridiculous"trade we were 14-14 with melo... add that up... that is 42-43 below .500

And lets not bring felton into this.. I really don't like or dislike felton, what I don't like is how you guys are now hyping him up in a feeble attempt to downplay letting lin go.....

What's actually crazy is that I really think you believe this stuff you are writing, unlike most others, who is spinning arguments off pure hate...What can I say, If you can't see it, you just can't see it...I'm not hyping Felton, last time here he was a borderline All Star...He had Amare playing like the MVP...Lin has never run an offense in the NBA the way Felton has first go-round here even during Linsanity...Lin was mostly scoring during Linsanity...He was also having horrible games during that run but Knicks some how won off great defense by Shump or other players...But U never saw that, in you mind it was all Lin...I'm not looking for that out of Felton this time around...I just want to see him get Amare and Melo playing together...I like what I saw from the few games in preseason..But hey, you think Lin can do more than what happened in Linsanity, we shall see in Houston...My bet is Felton can run a better offense and we all have witnessed it...No hype, its a fact...

VCoug wrote:You know what I just realized? Hollinger predicted us to win between 46 and 50 games, the same as myself. Yet, I'm considered a hater but the lovers are celebrating this article.

lol.. go figure...

tkf wrote:

VCoug wrote:You know what I just realized? Hollinger predicted us to win between 46 and 50 games, the same as myself. Yet, I'm considered a hater but the lovers are celebrating this article.

lol.. go figure...

Guess Im looking at a different thread because I dont see posters celebrating that article.

VCoug wrote:You know what I just realized? Hollinger predicted us to win between 46 and 50 games, the same as myself. Yet, I'm considered a hater but the lovers are celebrating this article.

I had us at 43 which is pretty close considering how down I am about the team. I think age and injuries bite us in the butt. Keep in mind every team has a best case scenario so I don't put too much stock in it. Not even for a team like the Heat.

holfresh wrote:tkf..honest question..do u believe Lin wanted to be a Knick??

100%

now did you believe the knicks when they said they would match no matter what?

new york is going to have to get a higher seeding than any of the top 3 seeds from last year--

Miami
Boston
Indiana

This is plausible but not likely.

Philadelphia
New Jersey
Chicago

Question marks as big the Knicks but no doubt in the running.

I don't see any other team that really matters here.

Conclusion is that the Knicks are anywhere between a 3rd and a 7th seed, 3rd if you're an outright optimist.