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What IF we get eliminated in the first again?
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3G4G
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10/4/2012  5:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2012  6:22 PM
Mray20 wrote:If anyone in the east eliminates the Knicks other than the Heat it would be a failure, they have the talent and depth to beat anyone and give the Heat a run for their money, I would expect a 7 game epic series in the conference Finals vs Miami.
3G4G wrote:
fishmike wrote:epic failure

My mantra is


"3PEAT OR BUST"


But seriously if we lose in the 1rst round I don't care the draw, circumstances, excuse.....BLOWTORCH EVERYTHING IN SITE IN REGARDS TO THIS REGIME


Naaaahh Not a valid excuse especially if we draw the Heat in the first round as a better or worse seed. We knew what the heat were before we facelifted this team after it's first couple facelifts. You either put a team together to beat them or leave your team alone and let natural progression run it's course.

AUTOADVERT
dk7th
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10/4/2012  6:54 PM
bottom line is the knicks must be a 3rd or 4th seed at worst.

with that seeding they will likely face a team that is merely playoff fodder and easy revenue for gullible fans hungry for entertainment if not true competition... for the first round is just plain empty of real competition 98% of the time.

3rd or 4th seed come playoff time virtually guarantees a second-round appearance, where the true test of a team begins. and if the knicks don't win the second round or take it to seven games the team should probably be blown up and regarded as an unmitigated failure.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Uptown
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10/4/2012  6:54 PM
There's a thread on here where the majority, I believe, where picking the Knicks to finish either 3-4. Seems like the majority believe that the Celts and perhaps the Sixers or Pacers are better. So, if we finish 3rd, and lose to the Celtics in the 2nd round in 7 games, why is that a fail in the eyes of those who are picking the Celts to be better than us anyway?
IrishKnickFan
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10/4/2012  6:56 PM
Uptown wrote:There's a thread on here where the majority, I believe, where picking the Knicks to finish either 3-4. Seems like the majority believe that the Celts and perhaps the Sixers or Pacers are better. So, if we finish 3rd, and lose to the Celtics in the 2nd round in 7 games, why is that a fail in the eyes of those who are picking the Celts to be better than us anyway?

Because we have gone through hell for years now so we would like at least a deep run to show for it.

Mray20
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10/4/2012  7:00 PM
Knicks are the second best team in the east at least on paper , and from what I saw with Woody going 18-6 despite all the injuries I believe they will win the atlantic and be the number 2 seed.
No layups!
skeng
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Denmark
10/4/2012  7:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2012  7:04 PM
A video of our "trials" from 2000-2013 ending with us getting a championship would be priceless. Movie material even.

edit: maybe even starting with us coming short in '99

Legalize di NBA
Uptown
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10/4/2012  7:10 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Uptown wrote:There's a thread on here where the majority, I believe, where picking the Knicks to finish either 3-4. Seems like the majority believe that the Celts and perhaps the Sixers or Pacers are better. So, if we finish 3rd, and lose to the Celtics in the 2nd round in 7 games, why is that a fail in the eyes of those who are picking the Celts to be better than us anyway?

Because we have gone through hell for years now so we would like at least a deep run to show for it.

Thats what we all want, of course. But I'm trying to figure out the logic behind people picking this team to finish behind the Celts, then saying it would be a bust if we lose to a team most think is better than us anyway....

gunsnewing
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10/4/2012  8:57 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/4/2012  8:59 PM
Uptown wrote:
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Uptown wrote:There's a thread on here where the majority, I believe, where picking the Knicks to finish either 3-4. Seems like the majority believe that the Celts and perhaps the Sixers or Pacers are better. So, if we finish 3rd, and lose to the Celtics in the 2nd round in 7 games, why is that a fail in the eyes of those who are picking the Celts to be better than us anyway?

Because we have gone through hell for years now so we would like at least a deep run to show for it.

Thats what we all want, of course. But I'm trying to figure out the logic behind people picking this team to finish behind the Celts, then saying it would be a bust if we lose to a team most think is better than us anyway....

because the Knicks have invested everything they had in Melo and Amare. They are supposedly in win now mode. So you better get by the celtics which I don't think they will. And the 12yr plan that got us Melo and Amare will be a colossal failure and another 12+ years of futility

CrushAlot
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10/4/2012  9:12 PM
I don't anticipate a slow start out of camp even with a lot of new faces on the team. I think the Knicks will have a higher seed and have home court in the first round. I think this makes a big difference. I also can't imagine the knicks having the injury issues that they had the past two years this year. The team is also much deeper. I can't imagine it happening with the improved roster and coaching.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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10/4/2012  9:20 PM
Knick fans still can't get past the loser mentality. Doom and Gloom is still the order of the day. We've got to look at the team as it is today and not as they used to be. This team is stronger everywhere. Woody as able to get great results with a flawed team last year, why be pessimistic when he has a FAR better team now? IMO Boston had a hard time beating the broke down and out of sync Knicks, but this is a new team. I think the Knicks will surpass them this time. We won't be seeing a 1st rd exit this year.
IrishKnickFan
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10/4/2012  10:09 PM
nixluva wrote:Knick fans still can't get past the loser mentality. Doom and Gloom is still the order of the day. We've got to look at the team as it is today and not as they used to be. This team is stronger everywhere. Woody as able to get great results with a flawed team last year, why be pessimistic when he has a FAR better team now? IMO Boston had a hard time beating the broke down and out of sync Knicks, but this is a new team. I think the Knicks will surpass them this time. We won't be seeing a 1st rd exit this year.
Hey i also believe that we will have a deep playoff run(i hope the deepest} but at the same time 12 years is a long time without any success
VCoug
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10/5/2012  12:51 AM
I'll sigh, shake my head, and say I told you so while I hope and pray that Dolan agrees to blow up the team in a couple of years. Other people will stop comparing us to the 2008 Celtics and will say that we're more like the 1997 Bulls or the Showtime Lakers instead.
Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
nixluva
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10/5/2012  1:37 AM
VCoug wrote:I'll sigh, shake my head, and say I told you so while I hope and pray that Dolan agrees to blow up the team in a couple of years. Other people will stop comparing us to the 2008 Celtics and will say that we're more like the 1997 Bulls or the Showtime Lakers instead.

Why should we think, as you believe, that this team is likely to have a 1st rd debacle this year?

What about this roster makes this team more likely to have a major letdown and go out in the 1st rd?

This team has the depth and size to matchup with any team in the league, why are some still doubting this team should be one of the top seeds in the East?

Where are the holes in this roster that we should be so fearful of?

No team is perfect but this team seems to be as well put together as any other top team. From everything i'm seeing this team is built to defend at a high level and to play a more mistake free style that will match well with an aggressive defense. I'm seeing a team that is made for a long playoff run. IMO the Heat, Celtics and Knicks are the top 3 teams in the East. My guess is Knicks finish 2nd or 3rd, no worse.

VCoug
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10/5/2012  2:03 AM
nixluva wrote:
VCoug wrote:I'll sigh, shake my head, and say I told you so while I hope and pray that Dolan agrees to blow up the team in a couple of years. Other people will stop comparing us to the 2008 Celtics and will say that we're more like the 1997 Bulls or the Showtime Lakers instead.

Why should we think, as you believe, that this team is likely to have a 1st rd debacle this year?

What about this roster makes this team more likely to have a major letdown and go out in the 1st rd?

This team has the depth and size to matchup with any team in the league, why are some still doubting this team should be one of the top seeds in the East?

Where are the holes in this roster that we should be so fearful of?

No team is perfect but this team seems to be as well put together as any other top team. From everything i'm seeing this team is built to defend at a high level and to play a more mistake free style that will match well with an aggressive defense. I'm seeing a team that is made for a long playoff run. IMO the Heat, Celtics and Knicks are the top 3 teams in the East. My guess is Knicks finish 2nd or 3rd, no worse.

A. Our back court sucks. I'm not sure Felton is one of the 20 best point guards in the league and he's starting for us. Jason Kidd is completely washed up. Shumpert and Brewer are hurt and Shumpert's injury usually takes two years to recover from.

B. Novak is our only shooter. When we run a pick and roll teams will double the roller and dare whoever has the ball to shoot a long jumper. And when teams go to double Melo or Amare there is no one who can make the other team pay.

C. Amare has been battling a back injury for a year and a half now. There's at least a 50/50 chance that he will never be close to the same player he was in 2010/11. Last season was the worst of his career and his back was so bad he had trouble even dunking the ball on multiple occasions. Back injuries can be very trick and very difficult to recover from and there is a long list of players that never have.

D. There's no evidence that the Melo/Amare/Tyson frontcourt will work. When Melo first got here there were flashes with him and Amare that they could both possibly play effectively together. There was absolutely no evidence that the three of them can play well together. Until I see it on the court I won't believe the three of them can play effective basketball together.

E. We were stomped each of the last two years in the first round. We can throw out two years ago since our team looks nothing like that anymore, but last season was a ****ing embarrassment. We didn't look like we belonged on the same court as Miami and the only reason we won a game was because they took their foot of the gas AND Wade played awful in game 4. I don't believe that adding a host of mediocre players and Marcus Camby can fix that.

F. Tyson, Amare, Camby, and Shumpert are all injury prone and MDA might have ruined Amare's career two years ago. Also, Kidd, Thomas, and Wallace are all very old and it's quite possible they can't make it through a full season. I don't have faith that we will be reasonably healthy at the end of the season.

G. As far as I'm concerned Miami, Boston and a healthy Chicago team are all better than us. And Brooklyn and Philly are better than they were last year while Indy is still a good team. It's not out of the realm of possibility that we could finish as low as 6 or 7 in the conference.

H. I'm not convinced that Woodson is the right coach for the team and he certainly isn't a better option that Phil Jackson. I know we finished the year 18-6 but I think that had more to do with MDA leaving than Woodson being promoted and Amare was hurt for most of that run which allowed us to balance our lineups better

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
nixluva
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10/5/2012  2:46 AM
VCoug, i'm glad you decided to go into so much detail about what you don't like.

VCoug wrote:A. Our back court sucks. I'm not sure Felton is one of the 20 best point guards in the league and he's starting for us. Jason Kidd is completely washed up. Shumpert and Brewer are hurt and Shumpert's injury usually takes two years to recover from.

Explain why it is that you have to have a PG that is top 20 PG in the league? You mean like Derek Fisher or Kerr? I understand your general point about having a quality PG, but Felton when in shape is not a bad PG. Jason Kidd is also not a bad PG even at this age. Brewer should be healthy by the time we really need him and anything Shump gives us this year is gonna be a plus.
The style of play this team will have will no longer be PG centric.

VCoug wrote:B. Novak is our only shooter. When we run a pick and roll teams will double the roller and dare whoever has the ball to shoot a long jumper. And when teams go to double Melo or Amare there is no one who can make the other team pay.
This is a bit of an exaggeration. Yes we don't have a lot of dangerous 3pt shooters but Novak is the best pure shooter, but not the only shooter teams have to worry about. The main thing is that we shouldn't be relying on a lot of outside shooting. You can create offense with player movement that will lead to open shots and high % shots at the basket. This team isn't an offensive juggernaut and doesn't have to be. It'd built to DEFEND.

VCoug wrote:C. Amare has been battling a back injury for a year and a half now. There's at least a 50/50 chance that he will never be close to the same player he was in 2010/11. Last season was the worst of his career and his back was so bad he had trouble even dunking the ball on multiple occasions. Back injuries can be very trick and very difficult to recover from and there is a long list of players that never have.
Amar'e got the right treatment regimen and I think he'll be much better at dealing with it. So long as the disk isn't bulging and making contact with nerves then he should be fine. If he has a flair up then he'll have another Epidural treatment and he'll be able to play with very little pain as he did last year. It's a very simple matter at this point. Right now he's fine so...

VCoug wrote:D. There's no evidence that the Melo/Amare/Tyson frontcourt will work. When Melo first got here there were flashes with him and Amare that they could both possibly play effectively together. There was absolutely no evidence that the three of them can play well together. Until I see it on the court I won't believe the three of them can play effective basketball together.

MOST of the time that these guys have actually been able to play together they haven't had a lot of good PG play. This is likely to be the 1st time they'll have a full season playing together with good PG's from start to finish.

VCoug wrote:E. We were stomped each of the last two years in the first round. We can throw out two years ago since our team looks nothing like that anymore, but last season was a ****ing embarrassment. We didn't look like we belonged on the same court as Miami and the only reason we won a game was because they took their foot of the gas AND Wade played awful in game 4. I don't believe that adding a host of mediocre players and Marcus Camby can fix that.
Again this is partly a function of not having quality PG's. You may not like Felton and Kidd but they are quality PG's that should be able to move the offense.

VCoug wrote:F. Tyson, Amare, Camby, and Shumpert are all injury prone and MDA might have ruined Amare's career two years ago. Also, Kidd, Thomas, and Wallace are all very old and it's quite possible they can't make it through a full season. I don't have faith that we will be reasonably healthy at the end of the season.
This is really just conjecture on your part since NO ONE can predict injury. Let's just assume some level of injury, but also acknowledge that this team has a lot of quality depth to be able to handle that. We're in a better situation than the Bulls who if they lose one guy namely D Rose, they're done.

VCoug wrote:G. As far as I'm concerned Miami, Boston and a healthy Chicago team are all better than us. And Brooklyn and Philly are better than they were last year while Indy is still a good team. It's not out of the realm of possibility that we could finish as low as 6 or 7 in the conference.

We don't know how good Boston, Chicago, Brooklyn or Philly really are but this Knicks team is right dead square in the middle of the best teams in the league. I'd love to see your in depth analysis as to why those teams should be clearly better than NY.

VCoug wrote:H. I'm not convinced that Woodson is the right coach for the team and he certainly isn't a better option that Phil Jackson. I know we finished the year 18-6 but I think that had more to do with MDA leaving than Woodson being promoted and Amare was hurt for most of that run which allowed us to balance our lineups better.
I'm not basing my judgment on Woodson on last year as much as how he's conducted himself since the end of the season. He's shown that he's fully committed to getting this right. He didn't allow any time for slippage to come in. He was on top of his players development from day one and has taken steps to ensure that his players all get better. He gave them help with training, skills development and even the mental approach they should take to the game. You can't knock anything he's done since the season ended.

This team did come together at the end of the year under Woody. That has continued into this season. I think they brought in players that are pros and understand what winning is all about. Woody has a great group of guys. The added players all understand the game and are known to be good defenders. That will lead to an even better defensive team than last year. If that's the case I don't see how any of the things you suggest will be a reason this team won't be a top tier team. Under Woody this team was top 5 defensively and now they have even more size and depth and quality defenders. Do they get worse or better defensively?

JamesKPolk
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10/5/2012  4:20 AM
Break up the team and rebuild.

Of course to Dolan that means trade for worse contracts and live in denial.

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
knicks1248
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10/5/2012  7:24 AM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
fishmike wrote:this team is built to challenge the Heat. We should not meet them until the conf finals. Deep veteran team that should win 55 games.

After 12 years of misery i need to see at least a conference final appearence although that wont be good enough at least its a deep playoff run which i havent seen since JVG

12 years ago, i remember ppl posting (msg network boards) that we needed to rebuild, that we were old.. How we needed to trade spree and houston while they still had value..I'll never forget how that debate went..I was totally against rebuilding after watching the BULLS try for 10 years and couldn't get it right..I said the fans would never except that in NY, The knicks were fortunate to get 1 franchise player (EWING) in the last 25 yrs.

ES
Nalod
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10/5/2012  7:30 AM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Nalod wrote:
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Nalod wrote:IF we get eliminated again?

We'll do what we do every year!

Blame either Melo or call for Woody's job.
Blame it on Amare.
Blame it on Letting Lin go. Argue again over his contract.
Blame it on Dolan.
Blame it on Grunny.
Blame it on the rain.

Question why we are knick fans. Argue what a real fan is.

Rinse, lather, repeat!

Well can you blame fans for doing that. I mean from 2000-2008 we were a joke. Then from 2008-2010 we were cleaning house for the FA class of 2010 and it didnt work out like we planned and we have 1 playoff win to show for it

Real fans don't complain.

Im not talking about complaining im talking about being upset. I mean your philosophy of "Oh shucks" after losing in the first round doesnt exactly make you a diehard fan

Yes, the arguement of "who is a real fan". Thank you for bringing that up. Watching 60 games and spending a half hour a day on a site make me a "faux" type?

Ok.

What, do I need to demonstrate my being distraught after every loss? That is a "real fan" or just being a wuss?

jrodmc
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10/5/2012  7:53 AM
Things to do if Knicks lose in first round again:
1) Destroy this board. Do this by spending 35 weeks straight into the summer posting Melo-Dolan hate threads and polls.
2) Move into a cardboard box next to the dumpsters outside the Barclays.
3) Get face tats that are all black and white and make a living as a mime cheerleader/squeegee guy outside the arena of Russian dreams.
4) Wait 40 years for the N*yets to win in the first round.
5) Complain and whine endlessly.
6) Move to Vancouver and wait for the Grizzlies to come back.

This board is rapidly being populated by what appears to be a middle school girls glee club.

We are Knick fans.

We suffer when we win, because it's not enough.

We suffer when we lose, because our trendy Heat fan friends have the proper Starphucques. Those cool OKC fans have built through the draft, just like WE would have done, because that's the right way, that's the proper way, and because it would fill our vacuuous needs to be the draft-picking, GM genius we never got to be.

Sometimes we just suffer because it's our nature.

We had Willis.

We have Clyde.

We had BK and Ewing.

We had Spree.

All these folks had at least 5 years here.

We now have something like 50,000 posts whining about Melo.

We've now come so far full circle that folks are quoting MARBURY. MARBURY...think about that.

Now we've actually got posts fondly looking back at Scott Layden. S-M-H.

I will listen and watch the games. Knick games.
I truly don't give a lame fart about any other team.
I will be happy if we get to the playoffs and pissed if we don't win it all.
I am a Knick fan.
That's WHAT.

tkf
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10/5/2012  9:19 AM
fishmike wrote:this team is built to challenge the Heat. We should not meet them until the conf finals. Deep veteran team that should win 55 games.

FISH, i THINk everyone looks over boston, they added jason terry who is a hell of a player, they added courtney lee, they will have bradley back.. I think the celts could beat the heat honestly.. I think we should worry about them as well...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
What IF we get eliminated in the first again?

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