Knixkik wrote:Agreed, there is no reason why we can't be the 2nd seed in the East. Then once playoffs come, who knows.

No reason? How long you follow the knicks? There are 100 reasons and another 100 we can't even imagine!

Hold on and enjoy the season! One never knows.

Anji wrote:

tkf wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:BRIGGS, i DON't think anyone doubts this team will be good... we were headed this way before any of the big trades.. the key is we need to be championship good, because after this year, we may be looking at some tough times, aging roster, very few picks, no flexibility... not much youth...... but hey, as you said, at least this year we know we will put a good product on the floor, or at least we should...

Nah. We weren't.

sure we were.. we were already above .500 why not..

funny how we can make the jump to being contenders after grabbing the 7th seed, but we were not on our way to being a good team with an above .500 record?

feel free to pick and choose which suits your case of course...

You got to be planning a loooooooong vacation from the boards with all this **** your talking over the summer...... mostly crying about a very Stat depended team even though you've seen him breaking down over the last year and a half.

You even say you feel like this season could be a very good one, why bitch soooo much right before the year starts???

I mean your as not going to give the hollow " Good game" check in after all of this right??? Right???

anji we gutted our team to win a ring right? or was it to just be good and give a nice showing to the fans? sorry, I am not one for lipstick on a pig..... we have a very short window, and I just don't like the route we have taken... is that such a bad thing?

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:BRIGGS, i DON't think anyone doubts this team will be good... we were headed this way before any of the big trades.. the key is we need to be championship good, because after this year, we may be looking at some tough times, aging roster, very few picks, no flexibility... not much youth...... but hey, as you said, at least this year we know we will put a good product on the floor, or at least we should...

you know, silly as this sounds there is clearly one other way to improve your team (we will see if it works). Thats to add every old guy in the league who has a couple good games left in the tank. Who needs picks and cap space when every player close to 40 sees the Knicks as the place to be.

Of course we are slooooooooooooow.

And every time a 40yr old player is added to the team...the window shrinks even more.

So let me get this straight..We essentially had 2 throw away seasons waiting for 2010. We then didn't get quite the results we wanted so we liquidated all assets for the next 2yrs of mulligans. Now we are looking at a 2yr window to get ultimate satisfaction.

So clearing all that cap throwing away all of the future, results in a 2yr window. Who runs a team this way?

The Nuggets have just as good a chance to do this in the West as we in the East except they have not 1 Max cat on their team and a lasting bright future to come. Spurs/Lakers have maybe a 2yr window and the only real comp is OKC but they have similar youth.

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

tkf wrote:BRIGGS, i DON't think anyone doubts this team will be good... we were headed this way before any of the big trades.. the key is we need to be championship good, because after this year, we may be looking at some tough times, aging roster, very few picks, no flexibility... not much youth...... but hey, as you said, at least this year we know we will put a good product on the floor, or at least we should...

tfk--this team has a 2 year window of opportunity and the best year might just be this year. It will become next to impossible to build a legit team in year 3 due to the new CBA. We will be hogtied with the new salary cap rules--player movement will be minimal at best. Its important for the Knicks that Shumpert comes back healthy and we score in the draft next year. We wont be able to dip into mid level exceptions etc.. and the guys we have now--essentially Kid and Camby IMHO will BOTH be shot in year 3 taking up 7+mm. We also have to hope Amare's body can take 2 more full yeasr + playoffs and Im scared that it might now(which would be a colossal disaster) So lets enjoy the Knicks now and see if they can really play well--this might be the best basketball team they have for the next 4-6 years

I agree 100%. Grunwald has surrounded Melo/Stat/Woody with the pieces they need to succeed. I think this is a very good team but that is a very small window. We desperatly need some influx of young talent.

There is about a two year window. If Melo and STAT and Chandler can play at a high level with Shump improving year to year then anything is possible.

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:BRIGGS, i DON't think anyone doubts this team will be good... we were headed this way before any of the big trades.. the key is we need to be championship good, because after this year, we may be looking at some tough times, aging roster, very few picks, no flexibility... not much youth...... but hey, as you said, at least this year we know we will put a good product on the floor, or at least we should...

you know, silly as this sounds there is clearly one other way to improve your team (we will see if it works). Thats to add every old guy in the league who has a couple good games left in the tank. Who needs picks and cap space when every player close to 40 sees the Knicks as the place to be.

Of course we are slooooooooooooow.

LOL.. yea, we will see fish... but we created a nice landing pad for the old guys to cash out big time.. nice deals for camby and kidd.. that is for sure... but with that said, I respect kidd and camby and I really like amare... but is that enough? and if not, we really threw out future growth for a loop with taking this approach... this could set us back years upon years... this would be easier to swallo had we some young guys to do a quick restart.. we have shump, hopefully he comes back the same, but we let one go in lin.. let him go! I like having a contingecy plan....

You make a lot of good points. If we win a title it will be worth the inevitable rebuilding process in 3 years. However if we struggle to get out of the first two rounds then grunwald,dolan,melo, and amare are all gonna get killed by the media/fans

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

tkf wrote:BRIGGS, i DON't think anyone doubts this team will be good... we were headed this way before any of the big trades.. the key is we need to be championship good, because after this year, we may be looking at some tough times, aging roster, very few picks, no flexibility... not much youth...... but hey, as you said, at least this year we know we will put a good product on the floor, or at least we should...

tfk--this team has a 2 year window of opportunity and the best year might just be this year. It will become next to impossible to build a legit team in year 3 due to the new CBA. We will be hogtied with the new salary cap rules--player movement will be minimal at best. Its important for the Knicks that Shumpert comes back healthy and we score in the draft next year. We wont be able to dip into mid level exceptions etc.. and the guys we have now--essentially Kid and Camby IMHO will BOTH be shot in year 3 taking up 7+mm. We also have to hope Amare's body can take 2 more full yeasr + playoffs and Im scared that it might now(which would be a colossal disaster) So lets enjoy the Knicks now and see if they can really play well--this might be the best basketball team they have for the next 4-6 years

briggs,lets say the knicks make it to the second round... ok, so where do we go from here if you feel we have such a small window and this may be our best year? we will be back to the isiah days of knick basketball...I think we could have gotten to this point and protected our assets so that we can have an extended window and a real progression at building a winner...

How would we be back to the Isiah days? I don't understand what you mean or are trying to indicate. The Isiah days were punctuated by dysfunction on and off the court coupled with consistent losing seasons. I don't see consistent losing happening with this roster. I don't see dysfunction in the front office right now.

As for protecting our assets?!?! I just don't believe the assets we had - prior to Melo trade - were ever going to reach a level where we'd be able to have even an outside shot of competing to get to the finals.
We had Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov and Felton. None of these players have progressed to a point where they are consistently explosive night to night or even month to month as of now. I think Gallo still has tons of potential but he has not shown real progress / consistency and he has been in the league for a few years now.

NUPE you seem to hate the guys we had lol. I mean i like the team we have now but guys like gallo and chandler did a great job and who knows maybe with more pieces would have done even betetr

but

A broken down power forward can reinvent his game at 30yrs of age

and

A stubborn 3/4 player who never shown signs of sacrifice is going to make all the TEAM sacrifices to Take Us Home

and

Multiple 40yr olds are going to turn back the clock simultaneously whether they get rotation minutes or not

NUPE wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:

NUPE wrote:

tkf wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

tkf wrote:BRIGGS, i DON't think anyone doubts this team will be good... we were headed this way before any of the big trades.. the key is we need to be championship good, because after this year, we may be looking at some tough times, aging roster, very few picks, no flexibility... not much youth...... but hey, as you said, at least this year we know we will put a good product on the floor, or at least we should...

tfk--this team has a 2 year window of opportunity and the best year might just be this year. It will become next to impossible to build a legit team in year 3 due to the new CBA. We will be hogtied with the new salary cap rules--player movement will be minimal at best. Its important for the Knicks that Shumpert comes back healthy and we score in the draft next year. We wont be able to dip into mid level exceptions etc.. and the guys we have now--essentially Kid and Camby IMHO will BOTH be shot in year 3 taking up 7+mm. We also have to hope Amare's body can take 2 more full yeasr + playoffs and Im scared that it might now(which would be a colossal disaster) So lets enjoy the Knicks now and see if they can really play well--this might be the best basketball team they have for the next 4-6 years

briggs,lets say the knicks make it to the second round... ok, so where do we go from here if you feel we have such a small window and this may be our best year? we will be back to the isiah days of knick basketball...I think we could have gotten to this point and protected our assets so that we can have an extended window and a real progression at building a winner...

How would we be back to the Isiah days? I don't understand what you mean or are trying to indicate. The Isiah days were punctuated by dysfunction on and off the court coupled with consistent losing seasons. I don't see consistent losing happening with this roster. I don't see dysfunction in the front office right now.

As for protecting our assets?!?! I just don't believe the assets we had - prior to Melo trade - were ever going to reach a level where we'd be able to have even an outside shot of competing to get to the finals.
We had Gallo, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov and Felton. None of these players have progressed to a point where they are consistently explosive night to night or even month to month as of now. I think Gallo still has tons of potential but he has not shown real progress / consistency and he has been in the league for a few years now.

NUPE you seem to hate the guys we had lol. I mean i like the team we have now but guys like gallo and chandler did a great job and who knows maybe with more pieces would have done even betetr

How does telling the truth equate to hate?!?!

I am a Gallo fan and follow him (I do have league pass every year). Gallo has always shot a bad percentage, shoots too many threes, has not developed a post game and is an average defender. I think Gallo has the skills to be a second tier star but he has not put it together despite being in the league for four to five seasons. At some point you need to put expectations aside and take the players as they are.

I like Wilson Chandler. He is actually a good two way player but does not excel at any one thing. I don't think you can win with Chandler as your second best player.

As for Mozgov, he just is not good nor consistent.

We had Hill, who is not good and has done little or nothing.

The only player the Knicks have had and let go that has actually improved is David Lee who no one ever mentions on this board. I dunno if Lee's #'s are a product of playing in Golden State or what but he has been good.

We will see how Lin progresses in Hou.

nupe, hey, I am trying to reach some middle ground here... I mean you do realize that gallo and chandler were just 22 and 23 years old? they were playing winning basketball.. you are holding them, to such high standards but you are making a ton of excuses for melo who is already going into his 10th season... why such high hopes for melo making such drastic changes, but so quick to give up on kids who were not only improving, but winning? just asking...

3G4G wrote:I love how players like Lin/Gallo/Chandler at 23-24yrs of age are basically completely summed up for the rest of their careers, therefore no reason to believe they could be better...

but

A broken down power forward can reinvent his game at 30yrs of age

and

A stubborn 3/4 player who never shown signs of sacrifice is going to make all the TEAM sacrifices to Take Us Home

and

Multiple 40yr olds are going to turn back the clock simultaneously whether they get rotation minutes or not

you beat me to it... but what I also find interesting is that, nupe said " how is it hate if he is telling the truth".. well that is pretty much what we are saying.. none of us said this team was bad, or that carmelo was a scrub..

we pretty much have been saying.. carmelo is not as good as being advertised around here( when being compared to other elite players), and the knicks may not be as good as some would like to think, although we feel they have the potential to have a good year....

Remember how stifling the Knicks D was late last year? Well this team has even more defensive talent than that team!!! How Knick fans can miss this key point is beyond me. For years these very same fans wanted a team that was more "New York". A tough defensive team. Well that's exactly what this team is and from day one they're focusing on D. They're built with D in mind so it's not like what they did before in trying to defend with no defensive talent. They have the defensive talent to be ELITE!

Still this team has also improved in terms of what they can do offensively. Not much but in key ways. Like having PG's that can function in a Halfcourt offense and intense playoff type BB. This team needed that kind of floor leadership. Also Woody having brought in Hakeem and Hopla to help the team sharpen their offensive skills. Just smart moves.

nixluva wrote:This team is built to win. Ignore the dumb age comments. This team has just what it needs to compete with any team in the league. One thought I had at the end of last year was for this team to double down on it's strength from last year, which was defense. I felt that one approach would be to add even more defensive talent and that's what the Knicks did. It made sense to me then and now seeing who they added I really like this team. It's a team that makes sense. The players fit the coach and they have tons of experience winning. You can't underestimate the importance of that.

Remember how stifling the Knicks D was late last year? Well this team has even more defensive talent than that team!!! How Knick fans can miss this key point is beyond me. For years these very same fans wanted a team that was more "New York". A tough defensive team. Well that's exactly what this team is and from day one they're focusing on D. They're built with D in mind so it's not like what they did before in trying to defend with no defensive talent. They have the defensive talent to be ELITE!

Still this team has also improved in terms of what they can do offensively. Not much but in key ways. Like having PG's that can function in a Halfcourt offense and intense playoff type BB. This team needed that kind of floor leadership. Also Woody having brought in Hakeem and Hopla to help the team sharpen their offensive skills. Just smart moves.

This.