nixluva wrote:I think too many Knick fans are stuck in the past. This team is really very interesting now and should be fun to root for this season.

1. Felton and Kidd! can't understate this point but just remember what we started with last year and then compare to what we have now. I think both guys will be super motivated by playing in NY on a contending team. This PG tandem is LIGHTYEARS beyond what we had last year. Both mentally and physically tough men with experience.

2. STAT and Melo are in shape!!! We had both players coming off injuries last summer and that brutal schedule was not what they needed. This year both are healthy and ready to go having worked on their games this summer. I'm excited to see them this year back playing at their normal levels.

3. TYSON, CAMBY, KT & SHEED!!! I don't care how old these guys are, that is some serious beef to throw at teams. I can't think of a better group of defensive bigs than this. We'll be able to matchup with any team in the league period.

4. Shump, Brewer and JR. These are 3 athletic guards that can defend and hustle on the floor. The only issue is getting Shump and Brewer 100%. That's a big question but so far things have been moving along on pace.

I think overall if someone is really honest about this roster they'd have to admit that this is a tough team for any team to face. The identity of the team has shifted from offense to BIGTIME DEFENSE! You have to be happy about that as a Knick fan. I just don't see the negative side of this group since it's not just a one sided team but a well balanced, deep and veteran team now.

Replace "I think" with "I hope" and we can be really honest here.

The negative is old guys missing games due to injury not getting the chemistry. Its gonna happen. Not all at once but its ok if you plan for it.

"I think" the team on paper it looks good. "I hope" it translates well.

Nalod wrote:

nixluva wrote:I think too many Knick fans are stuck in the past. This team is really very interesting now and should be fun to root for this season.

1. Felton and Kidd! can't understate this point but just remember what we started with last year and then compare to what we have now. I think both guys will be super motivated by playing in NY on a contending team. This PG tandem is LIGHTYEARS beyond what we had last year. Both mentally and physically tough men with experience.

2. STAT and Melo are in shape!!! We had both players coming off injuries last summer and that brutal schedule was not what they needed. This year both are healthy and ready to go having worked on their games this summer. I'm excited to see them this year back playing at their normal levels.

3. TYSON, CAMBY, KT & SHEED!!! I don't care how old these guys are, that is some serious beef to throw at teams. I can't think of a better group of defensive bigs than this. We'll be able to matchup with any team in the league period.

4. Shump, Brewer and JR. These are 3 athletic guards that can defend and hustle on the floor. The only issue is getting Shump and Brewer 100%. That's a big question but so far things have been moving along on pace.

I think overall if someone is really honest about this roster they'd have to admit that this is a tough team for any team to face. The identity of the team has shifted from offense to BIGTIME DEFENSE! You have to be happy about that as a Knick fan. I just don't see the negative side of this group since it's not just a one sided team but a well balanced, deep and veteran team now.

Replace "I think" with "I hope" and we can be really honest here.

The negative is old guys missing games due to injury not getting the chemistry. Its gonna happen. Not all at once but its ok if you plan for it.

"I think" the team on paper it looks good. "I hope" it translates well.

What are you "hoping" about? That Felton and Kidd can play PG? That Tyson and Camby can defend the paint? That a healthy and prepared STAT and Melo can sore? The only real issue is getting Brewer and Shump back to 100% and so far they've been on target.

In the case of injury, there is no real proof that older players get injured and that we should expect that. Nash, Kidd, KG, Dirk ... I can go on and these players have been very capable late in their careers. Older players tend not to play a style that is based on purely athletic BB. They tend to play at a comfortable pace and use guile more that brute strength, speed or hops. They go for the basic functional play rather than the spectacular. Also we won't need to push these guys since this team is so deep. I find it funny that the guys who've been getting hurt are DRose, SHump etc. The young athletic guys.

"Fans love (Rasheed Wallace's) edginess and see him as the ultimate compatriot, a two-time All-Star willingly sacrificing his own interests for the greater good and far from 'a blight on the organization,' as Wallace was once described by a team official in Portland.

They love the way he yells, after an opponent's missed free throw, 'Ball don't lie.'

They love the boxing-style championship belts he had made for his teammates, the funny nicknames he gives them. And they love it when he says of those doubting the Pistons' chances of repeating their title run, 'When it comes down to it, we'll smack 'em in the mouth with the trophy again.'" - LA Times

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Can't wait to see this guy dominate the ball again

Based on that picture, that's actually the right play Bonn.

Ha, talk about spoilt for choice- if you were melo, who would you pass to in that situation: Landry Fields (25.6% 3pt) or Toney Douglas (23.1% 3pt). Melo can be a ball hog, but sometimes I get why he takes all the shots.

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Can't wait to see this guy dominate the ball again

Based on that picture, that's actually the right play Bonn.

Ha, talk about spoilt for choice- if you were melo, who would you pass to in that situation: Landry Fields (25.6% 3pt) or Toney Douglas (23.1% 3pt). Melo can be a ball hog, but sometimes I get why he takes all the shots.

Fields was 25.6% overall. That's probably around 40% on wide open 3s and 10% on contested 3s. Meanwhile, Melo's percentage on contested shots (even just single-coverage contested shots) is quite bad. No matter how much you like to knock Fields, a wide open shot by Field's is a better shot than a triple-teamed shot by Carmelo.
Nalod's right about the bigger picture and the Melo trade, though.

he takes all the shots because he is not interested in building synergy with his teammates. he is not interested in building confidence, and sharing the ball in order to help maintain overall focus.

this is the same problem, the exact same problem, that stoudemire manifests.

putting the burden on lesser players, claiming they need to step up, is profoundly misguided and in fact perverse.

can't wait for someone to say "these guys are professionals it's their job to maintain focus."

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Can't wait to see this guy dominate the ball again

Based on that picture, that's actually the right play Bonn.

Ha, talk about spoilt for choice- if you were melo, who would you pass to in that situation: Landry Fields (25.6% 3pt) or Toney Douglas (23.1% 3pt). Melo can be a ball hog, but sometimes I get why he takes all the shots.

Fields was 25.6% overall. That's probably around 40% on wide open 3s and 10% on contested 3s. Meanwhile, Melo's percentage on contested shots (even just single-coverage contested shots) is quite bad. No matter how much you like to knock Fields, a wide open shot by Field's is a better shot than a triple-teamed shot by Carmelo.
Nalod's right about the bigger picture and the Melo trade, though.

he takes all the shots because he is not interested in building synergy with his teammates. he is not interested in building confidence, and sharing the ball in order to help maintain overall focus.

this is the same problem, the exact same problem, that stoudemire manifests.

putting the burden on lesser players, claiming they need to step up, is profoundly misguided and in fact perverse.

can't wait for someone to say "these guys are professionals it's their job to maintain focus."

Uptown wrote:Every-time someone tries to post a thread that shows excitement for the Knicks, it gets high-jacked by a bunch antiteam (Mainly Anti-Melo) nonsense. Whats wrong with having a positive outlook about the Knicks on the ultimateknicks fan site? There are already a bunch of negative threads on the front page.....geez....

Don't worry, this team goes out and performs those posters will post nice short positive posts.

Go knicks!!!

Uptown wrote:Every-time someone tries to post a thread that shows excitement for the Knicks, it gets high-jacked by a bunch antiteam (Mainly Anti-Melo) nonsense. Whats wrong with having a positive outlook about the Knicks on the ultimateknicks fan site? There are already a bunch of negative threads on the front page.....geez....

93BUICK wrote:

dk7th wrote:

93BUICK wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Can't wait to see this guy dominate the ball again

Based on that picture, that's actually the right play Bonn.

Ha, talk about spoilt for choice- if you were melo, who would you pass to in that situation: Landry Fields (25.6% 3pt) or Toney Douglas (23.1% 3pt). Melo can be a ball hog, but sometimes I get why he takes all the shots.

Fields was 25.6% overall. That's probably around 40% on wide open 3s and 10% on contested 3s. Meanwhile, Melo's percentage on contested shots (even just single-coverage contested shots) is quite bad. No matter how much you like to knock Fields, a wide open shot by Field's is a better shot than a triple-teamed shot by Carmelo.
Nalod's right about the bigger picture and the Melo trade, though.

he takes all the shots because he is not interested in building synergy with his teammates. he is not interested in building confidence, and sharing the ball in order to help maintain overall focus.

this is the same problem, the exact same problem, that stoudemire manifests.

putting the burden on lesser players, claiming they need to step up, is profoundly misguided and in fact perverse.

can't wait for someone to say "these guys are professionals it's their job to maintain focus."

You lost me at "synergy"

well, if you are a loyal fan of a player who (1) has never shown what it takes to build a dynamic chemistry, (2) whose teams have generally underachieved, and (3) whose game basically forces the whole team to be less than the sum of its parts... then i am not surprised that you got lost.

if he ever graduates to playing with and for others then we will see success. if he remains a guy who is only capable of merely playing alongside others most of the time then the knicks will not be successful.

Totally disagree- He's not a point forward! He's a dominant scorer and will be utilized as such- Felton and Kidd will orchestrate the offense- I think Lin and Fields wimped out when they played with him - if you can't make a great scorer work in your offense you are not a great PG-

i am sorry but your post makes little sense to me, and here's why first, i know that out of sheer necessity melo had to be forced into the point-forward role early on, and he is not suited to that. but i am not talking about orchestrating so much as keeping the ball moving to keep ahead of the defense, to occasionally run a simple pick and roll play with stoudemire, to anticipate doubles, and just make better decisions with the ball than he has shown. every game i see him play it's almost 75% of the time that he makes the wrong decision. the 25% of plays that he makes a good decision he is one of the most impressive players you will see and he is beautiful to watch.

this tells me that he has the tools but he doesn't have the mind or the will to use them effectively.

you call him a "dominant scorer." well i am not sure what that means, if in fact he dominates the ball with an astronomical usage rate but with barely passable efficiency (55%TS is just not going to cut it) to show for it AND is not a great defender. in my opinion the tipping point between ordinary and elite is anything above 58%TS. melo has been under 57% his entire career. pierce has been above 58% the latter part of his career. durant above 58% the last 3 years. lebron the last 4 years the same.

my issue with your take on things is that when it comes down to looking at your main players they all must be positive-sum players and when you break down melo's game he just isn't. he is a zero-sum player, as is stoudemire. or if that is too harsh, then i'll say both of these guys are far closer to zero-sum players than most knick fans want to believe.

Uptown wrote:

dk7th wrote:

93BUICK wrote:

dk7th wrote:

93BUICK wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Can't wait to see this guy dominate the ball again

Based on that picture, that's actually the right play Bonn.

Ha, talk about spoilt for choice- if you were melo, who would you pass to in that situation: Landry Fields (25.6% 3pt) or Toney Douglas (23.1% 3pt). Melo can be a ball hog, but sometimes I get why he takes all the shots.

Fields was 25.6% overall. That's probably around 40% on wide open 3s and 10% on contested 3s. Meanwhile, Melo's percentage on contested shots (even just single-coverage contested shots) is quite bad. No matter how much you like to knock Fields, a wide open shot by Field's is a better shot than a triple-teamed shot by Carmelo.
Nalod's right about the bigger picture and the Melo trade, though.

he takes all the shots because he is not interested in building synergy with his teammates. he is not interested in building confidence, and sharing the ball in order to help maintain overall focus.

this is the same problem, the exact same problem, that stoudemire manifests.

putting the burden on lesser players, claiming they need to step up, is profoundly misguided and in fact perverse.

can't wait for someone to say "these guys are professionals it's their job to maintain focus."

You lost me at "synergy"

well, if you are a loyal fan of a player who (1) has never shown what it takes to build a dynamic chemistry, (2) whose teams have generally underachieved, and (3) whose game basically forces the whole team to be less than the sum of its parts... then i am not surprised that you got lost.

if he ever graduates to playing with and for others then we will see success. if he remains a guy who is only capable of merely playing alongside others most of the time then the knicks will not be successful.

Totally disagree- He's not a point forward! He's a dominant scorer and will be utilized as such- Felton and Kidd will orchestrate the offense- I think Lin and Fields wimped out when they played with him - if you can't make a great scorer work in your offense you are not a great PG-

i am sorry but your post makes little sense to me, and here's why first, i know that out of sheer necessity melo had to be forced into the point-forward role early on, and he is not suited to that. but i am not talking about orchestrating so much as keeping the ball moving to keep ahead of the defense, to occasionally run a simple pick and roll play with stoudemire, to anticipate doubles, and just make better decisions with the ball than he has shown. every game i see him play it's almost 75% of the time that he makes the wrong decision. the 25% of plays that he makes a good decision he is one of the most impressive players you will see and he is beautiful to watch.

this tells me that he has the tools but he doesn't have the mind or the will to use them effectively.

you call him a "dominant scorer." well i am not sure what that means, if in fact he dominates the ball with an astronomical usage rate but with barely passable efficiency (55%TS is just not going to cut it) to show for it AND is not a great defender. in my opinion the tipping point between ordinary and elite is anything above 58%TS. melo has been under 57% his entire career. pierce has been above 58% the latter part of his career. durant above 58% the last 3 years. lebron the last 4 years the same.

my issue with your take on things is that when it comes down to looking at your main players they all must be positive-sum players and when you break down melo's game he just isn't. he is a zero-sum player, as is stoudemire. or if that is too harsh, then i'll say both of these guys are far closer to zero-sum players than most knick fans want to believe.

Would you call these TS% superstar #'s

Over the last 4 years this is "Said" players TS%:
56%
54%
54%
52%

Also, "Said" player has a career TS of 55%.......

i don't need to do any research to know that this must be either wade or bryant and i consider both players overrated because they both make the wrong decision with the ball more than 50% of the time. in bryant's case he should have won more easily than he did but he has buss and west and kupchack to thank for his rings. without superior support and sheer luck (perkins hurt in game 6 and garnett hurt he doesn't win either year) and with wade it's basically shaq and the refs supporting the telegenic golden boy for stern.

a heretical viewpoint to many but there you go.