GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Scouting report
+ Dominant power forward masquerading as a 3. Elite scorer with great handle.
+ Average shooter who will force it. Can overpower smaller wings on the block.
+ Decent passer but a lethargic defender, especially on the wing. Excellent rebounder.

Analysis
The move to New York pretty much guaranteed that Anthony would become the most overrated player in basketball, and folks haven't disappointed me on that front. Routinely referred to as a superstar despite the pesky fact that his teams don't improve all that much with him on the court, Anthony is better described as an extreme volume scorer. Last season he averaged a staggering 26.5 points per 40 minutes, but with a league-average true shooting percentage, ordinary assist and turnover numbers, and little to no defense. It's hard to conclude that he made a huge impact on New York's bottom line.

The big problem for Melo is that he likes long 2s, but long 2s don't like him. He made only 36.9 percent of his 2s from 10 feet and beyond, but attempted nearly eight a game. He also shot just 30.5 percent on 3s. Going to the cup it's a different story; Anthony had the eighth-best free throw rate among small forwards and makes his free throws. But he had two jump shots for every attempt at the rim.

The exception was when he played as a power forward, in which case he just destroyed people. Bigger defenders can't keep up with him on the dribble and struggle chasing him around the perimeter; according to 82games.com, Anthony had a PER of 29.5 as a 4 and just 17.3 as a 3 last season.

His splits from other seasons aren't quite as dramatic, but he certainly isn't worse as a 4; between the league's trend toward smaller and faster lineups and Anthony being a huge 3 who isn't getting any younger, it seems an obvious progression. He already rebounds like a power forward, ranking eighth among small forwards in rebound rate.

Playing the 4 may also diminish Anthony's defensive problems. He openly loafs on the perimeter and isn't all that quick laterally to start, but relishes physical play and has no problem banging against bigger players. New York gave up 4.2 points per 100 possessions more with Anthony on the court last season, which is another reason he just doesn't move the needle that much as a small forward. As a floor-spacing 4 with an elite defender behind him, perhaps he could finally deliver production that's at least somewhat close to his exalted reputation.

Good take and a primer on why the prophet, so delivered to us by Isiah bestowed upon us the reason why melo and Amare can't coexist effectively.

Melo is a top tier 4!

Maybe its Chandler in the mix that mucks it up? If he pops out 15 feet he won't shoot so he would be ineffective.

How woody solves this will be interesting. Unless Amare has nerve damage in his back I expect him to have a very good year based on his history of overcoming physical problems. Dude is a hard worker and makes good.

Lets hope the new shooting coach can help Amare and Chandler. They need to shoot better. Don't we all!

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:All this stuff really doesn't matter...I think we all have been fed this Melo is all bad for your team and for the game stuff that I don't react to it anymore...I just want the season to start so I can watch some games...I want to see Felton and Amare, that's the key to our season...

Well I don't think we could possibly be closer to 180 degrees apart. I think we've been fed so much of this "Melo is a true superstar - the kind of player you need in order to build a championship team" stuff that I don't even pay attention to it anymore.

So after Bron and the gang headed to Miami, who was your next best option??..Keeping in mind that we are trying to be realistic and not idealistic..We just gave Amare 100 mil..

The idea of building around an Amare-Melo duo is anything but realistic.
I laid out my rebuilding plan here: http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=40602&page=#900634

Sure using the draft doesn't always work. The key thing is though that unlike our starphucking, at least it doesn't *always fail*!
BTW, the key players on the teams I listed ranged throughout the top 10 in the draft except for Kobe (who was #13). Now once we didn't get Lebron or Wade, I would have been happy to rebuild through the draft and small FA signings while still keeping cap space to pursue top 5 players in the league when they were FAs. If they're not interested, keep improving the team through the draft and small FA signings until eventually the team is good enough to appeal to the top FAs. That's far from a guarantee but it would work a lot better than our starphucking does. Don't forget we have a financial advantage and can purchase more draft picks and have better odds of getting stars on cheap rookie contracts than any other team - if only Dolan were willing to use the draft more.
In a nutshell,
A) use financial advantage to get multiple 1st rd picks each year and have better odds at getting the top rookies;
B) sign small contract FAs;
C) continue making the team more attractive to legitimate excellent FA players. It may take many years of sucking (but that's gonna happen anyway) but eventually you're going to get lucky in the draft, improve the team a lot, and make it a destination that top FAs want to go to.

I copied your plan. In a perfect world or with an expansion franchise it makes a lot fo sense. It doesn't work in NY though partially because of the new cba and partially because the Knicks have traded every other 1st round pick until 2016 and most of their second round picks. Also, the financial advantage doesn't exist anymore unless you consider it an advantage that your team has the resources to go over the cap and pay the huge fees associated with that (especially year 3 and beyond in the new cba). The Knicks can no longer buy picks because they are a wealthy franchise. The new cba limits teams to a set amount they can spend annuallly whether it is money to sweeten a trade, pay salary for a player being traded or buy a pick. I believe the amount is around 2 mil but I am not positive. I am not sure what you mean by small contract. If you mean vet minimum the Knicks would not have a huge talent base to pick from, if you mean up to 3 mil I think they already are doing that to some extent. Lastly, I think Walsh made the team as attractive to free agents as anyone could in the summer of 2010. The team had a ton of cap space and still had some young talent. Walsh ended up with second tier flawed stars. However, how many marquee guys are there that the team could actually acquire after the big three turned them down?

As a Knick or Laker fan, the Axiom that your franchise just won't rebuild should be accepted...The Knicks are selling out Arenas playing .500 ball or less...Why would any business lose money and games for 4 or 5 seasons for a shot a getting a good rookie if it's not financially necessary..At some point reality should kick in...

He always insults knicks fans by saying that we didnt know that it was JR who came from china last yr not lin...

Im not saying he didnt accurately discuss the pros and cons of each player...its just how he did it

Overall this team is made up of one dimensional players that r good at that one thing. They jus need someone to put it all together...hopefully thats melo

Instead he digresses into he shouldnt really be a starter but theres some "internal resistance" from management.

He talks about kidd...about how old he is...and cant shoot...but NO WHERE i mean NO WHERE does he mention his best asset....PASSING!

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

Lakers hit the jackpot with Kobe, they traded Vlade for kobe after they drafted him 13th. Kobe needed 2-3 seaasons to be the Mamba.
Lakes are patient and much smarter than Knicks. Miami sacrifieced to get the cap space.

Knicks blew their wad on Amare and Melo. Let the games prove us right!

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

Nalod wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

Lakers hit the jackpot with Kobe, they traded Vlade for kobe after they drafted him 13th. Kobe needed 2-3 seaasons to be the Mamba.
Lakes are patient and much smarter than Knicks. Miami sacrifieced to get the cap space.

Knicks blew their wad on Amare and Melo. Let the games prove us right!

The Vlade for Kobe trade was one of the greatest sports coups I have witnessed.

The Lakers are a smarter organization (obviously) - though Jerry Buss is an awful poker player (as seen on High Stakes Poker) :-)

Miami sacrificed for cap space and so did the knicks.

The Knicks certainly made a desperate move for Amare - he was a big risk, a big success with Nash and not exactly a NY type of player (Highly Offensive / Zero Defensive).

Once they were all in, they (over) jumped for Melo. Now Melo was a global target but the knicks overpaid IMO.

How do you feel about the way the Nets are building? Did they give up too much for DWil? JJ?

tkf wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

then maybe we should sign or trade for the right guys, like the lakers getting shaq...
we don't trade well or sign the right FA's either.. you have to look at all sides bro..

I do not dispute this. Never have.

Do you really think I don't want to trade for Shaq('s)? C'mon.

I want Garnett's not Amare's.

I wanted Lebron, Wade - we tried and failed. Did they jump and get desperate? Uh ... YES! But I will not blame the player for this.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Hate on Hate, but Hate has been accurate.

It all looks good on paper.

Let the Games prove what is real.

Marbury knows the deal. Knicks are to make money not championships.

We don't rebuild thru the draft in NY.

Neither do the Lakers. Kobe, Shaq, Gasol ... all non draftees

Miami? They hit the jackpot with Wade, everyone else of significance was an import.

We drafted Gallo, Hill ... we did not hit the jackpot - not at all. We also don't draft in the top 5 since we don't officially tank.

It's a good thing the Knicks organization didn't always work this way. We would have never had Ewing, Clyde, or anything that made the organization special. Our glory years would have been the like the current Hawks teams.

I don't disagree. I have no problem building through the draft and certainly don't mind making better trades. However, we are habitual failures at the draft (was hard to screw up on Ewing), and we suck at making trades.

Kenny Walker, Gerald Wilkens ..............................................................................................

Trades? We don't need to go there. They are awful.

FA's? Amare was a huge mistake IMO and I do not dispute that he was a great player in PHX.

I did not even like the Chandler / Billups amnesty move (as we have discussed often), the price was way too high (based on Amare). I know that I can be very wrong on this.

I would have liked to have waited out the season and not have made the Melo trade (if that was the actual asking price). However, I will give it 3 years to judge (though it will be hard to truly judge). I also wanted DWil instead but he has not impressed me the last couple of years.