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OT: NO ELECTION THREADS?
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loweyecue
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9/5/2012  12:02 PM
Nalod wrote:Im reading the party platforms and I get stuck on the abortion position which only becomes at surface every 4 years.

If my Daughter is brutally raped and the pregnancy could kill her, by law she can't abort. Im not "pro abortion" but Im prochoice.

Any platform that won't recognize a same sex civil union and defines same sex marriage from a religious document is promoting discrimination and in violation of the constitution.

I can't support a platform that attempts to legislate morality and misses the mark.

Those two things are where I get off the GOP.

Economically I agree very much that its not about "smaller government" but has to be about the private sector growth.

The GOP has been out to get Obama since day one.

I would have voted for John McCain if he did not bring that idiot bimbo to the platform.

Personally Romney is tolerable but the GOP has lost it.

Interesting that you pick those issues. To me the broader context for both issues is separation of church and state. I think it's either Scalia or Alito that actually said he thinks it's his duty to interpret the law based on biblical teachings.

Over the last three four years the GOP has become increasingly more totalitarian in its approach.
The constitution specifically warns against the tyranny of the minority but we seem to be headed that way. Both are worrying trends.

IMO - Romney is the first ever Banking Party candidate to run for POTUS. He is using a false flag approach and has little interest in Republican ideals or any other ideals for that matter. If elected he will probably try to privatize the government revenue streams at significant cost to common people. The Buy Out of the government is complete, he will definitely make sure he adds Leverage to it, so his Banking Party can absorb whatever "value" is left in the economy.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
AUTOADVERT
VCoug
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9/5/2012  12:07 PM
Moonangie wrote:Did you see the speeches last night? One thing's for certain: The Dems have a bunch of terrific talent in public oratory. Michelle's speech was particularly magnificent.

I'm a progressive voter, so my issue with Obama is that he sought bipartisanship with feckless morons whose only interest was obstructionism and corporate/billionaire welfare. I suppose he did that to protect his chances at re-election. Once he wins this November 7th, the gloves should come off.

He should move America to a single-payer health system, enact tough environmental regulation to combat pollution and climate change, protect civil rights for gay couples, protect women's reproductive rights, spend on education reform building off of the national standards movement and 21st century learning models, invest in infrastructure (i.e., smart-grid, road/bridge repair, local transport such as light rail, reinvigorating urban centers) and invest in new energy tech (solar, tidal, geothermal, water-based fuel cell, wind and zero-point: electromagnetic and nuclear fusion).

Do I think he will do these things? Maybe, but not for certain, since the Democrats aren't really progressives just like the Republicans aren't really conservatives. The system is rigged (e.g., Citizen's United) and the Supreme Court has become a political action committee.

But a guy can still hope for the best.

I support everything you wrote but 90% of that won't be possible. I full expect Obama to win re-election but I also expect Republicans to maintain control of the House and Democrats won't have a large enough majority in the Senate to end most filibusters. Without cooperation from Congress the next four years will look like the last two.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
jrodmc
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9/5/2012  12:11 PM
Nalod wrote:Im reading the party platforms and I get stuck on the abortion position which only becomes at surface every 4 years.

If my Daughter is brutally raped and the pregnancy could kill her, by law she can't abort. Im not "pro abortion" but Im prochoice.


Riiiiiiiiiight, that's what the GOP has always stood for on the abortion issue: Kill the mother, save the baby. Great left wing liberal straw man you've got there. My main man Alan Keyes doesn't even approach that amount of stupidity.

Of course, we all know that 99% of all abortions are performed due to brutal rape, right?

Abortion on demand. For any reason. Convenience. Expedience. Interfering with school and career. Varicose veins. Mental stress.

How's this sound: We will not only legislate the ability to kill the unborn for any reason and all reasons, but we will also introduce the ability to kill unwanted infants immediately after they are born. Thank you Senator Obama, the great state of Illinois thanks you for your service.

Oh, and Daughter Nalod, once you're say, 13 or so, you're free to go abort at any time, and don't feel pressured to tell moms and pops. They might not agree with your choice. We the People need to protect your constitutional rights.

Nalod wrote:Any platform that won't recognize a same sex civil union and defines same sex marriage from a religious document is promoting discrimination and in violation of the constitution.

The platform recognizes same sex civil unions. The point is the REDEFINITION OF MARRIAGE, not same sex civil unions, or defining same sex marriage, which is like defining married bachelors.

Discrimination? Sexual preference is truly equivalent to race? Can I go into the local mosque during services and start singing praises to Jesus at the top of my lungs? When they escort me out of the building, isn't that discrimination? Aren't they violating the constitution?

Nalod wrote:I can't support a platform that attempts to legislate morality and misses the mark.

We agree. Although legislating immorality hits the mark everytime, right?

ChuckBuck
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USA
9/5/2012  12:12 PM
I don't get into Politics at all, but I can't bring myself to vote for a Mormon. That's pretty much it for me. I've seen Big Love on HBO. Those fockers are crazy!


P.S. - What did Paul Ryan look to gain by saying he ran a sub 3 hour marathon? Seems to be a trend with Mr. Ryan, fibbing, fudging, or just making up "facts".

BRIGGS
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9/5/2012  12:17 PM
I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I knmow a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE
RIP Crushalot😞
Markji
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USA
9/5/2012  12:56 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I know a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE

Wow Briggs, I'm truly impressed with your post. And I agree fully with your assessment on jobs. That IS the key. I don't understand how Obama wasn't able to focus on that when jobs was such a big part of his platform. His next term will hopefully get that done.

And I agree with your assessment on Romney. Very qualified in business and finance, but not for the middle class.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Nalod
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9/5/2012  1:20 PM
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:Im reading the party platforms and I get stuck on the abortion position which only becomes at surface every 4 years.

If my Daughter is brutally raped and the pregnancy could kill her, by law she can't abort. Im not "pro abortion" but Im prochoice.


Riiiiiiiiiight, that's what the GOP has always stood for on the abortion issue: Kill the mother, save the baby. Great left wing liberal straw man you've got there. My main man Alan Keyes doesn't even approach that amount of stupidity.

Of course, we all know that 99% of all abortions are performed due to brutal rape, right?

Abortion on demand. For any reason. Convenience. Expedience. Interfering with school and career. Varicose veins. Mental stress.

How's this sound: We will not only legislate the ability to kill the unborn for any reason and all reasons, but we will also introduce the ability to kill unwanted infants immediately after they are born. Thank you Senator Obama, the great state of Illinois thanks you for your service.

Oh, and Daughter Nalod, once you're say, 13 or so, you're free to go abort at any time, and don't feel pressured to tell moms and pops. They might not agree with your choice. We the People need to protect your constitutional rights.

Nalod wrote:Any platform that won't recognize a same sex civil union and defines same sex marriage from a religious document is promoting discrimination and in violation of the constitution.

The platform recognizes same sex civil unions. The point is the REDEFINITION OF MARRIAGE, not same sex civil unions, or defining same sex marriage, which is like defining married bachelors.

Discrimination? Sexual preference is truly equivalent to race? Can I go into the local mosque during services and start singing praises to Jesus at the top of my lungs? When they escort me out of the building, isn't that discrimination? Aren't they violating the constitution?

Nalod wrote:I can't support a platform that attempts to legislate morality and misses the mark.

We agree. Although legislating immorality hits the mark everytime, right?

Not sure Im getting you.

Nalod
Posts: 71231
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9/5/2012  1:25 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I knmow a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE

I agree with a lot of what you say.

Im not exactly pleased with Obama either and agree that we should vote FOR a candidate instead of AGAINST but if you can't be behind, as you said, why not vote your Preference?

mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
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9/5/2012  1:28 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I knmow a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE

Well put Briggs.

GustavBahler
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9/5/2012  2:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/5/2012  2:12 PM
Bush II was the worst president in my lifetime, and Obama is easily the most disappointing. I voted for the president in 08', but I won't be voting for either him or Romney. Some reasons why...

Barack Obama is a brand. And the Obama brand is designed to make us feel good about our government while corporate overlords loot the Treasury, our elected officials continue to have their palms greased by armies of corporate lobbyists, our corporate media diverts us with gossip and trivia and our imperial wars expand in the Middle East. Brand Obama is about being happy consumers. We are entertained. We feel hopeful. We like our president. We believe he is like us. But like all branded products spun out from the manipulative world of corporate advertising, we are being duped into doing and supporting a lot of things that are not in our interest. Chris Hedges


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/54351480-82/corporations-tpp-foreign-trade.html.csp


This may be one of the most important stories ever ignored by the media. It’s unlikely you’re losing sleep over U.S. trade negotiations, but the unfolding agreement between the United States and eight Pacific nations — the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) — should cause every U.S. citizen, from the Sierra Club to the tea party to get their pitchforks and torches out of the closet and prepare to "storm the Bastille."

The TPP negotiations have been going on for two years under extreme secrecy, no information has been made available to either the press or Congress about the U.S. position. But on June 12 a document was leaked to the watchdog group, Public Citizen, revealing the current U.S. position and the reason for the secrecy. The contents are surreal and shocking.
Photos


The leaked document reveals that the trade agreement would give unprecedented political authority and legal protection to foreign corporations.

Specifically, TPP would (1) severely limit regulation of foreign corporations operating within U.S. boundaries, giving them greater rights than domestic firms, (2) extend incentives for U.S. firms to move investments and jobs to lower-wage countries, (3) establish an alternative legal system that gives foreign corporations and investors new rights to circumvent U.S. courts and laws, allowing them to sue the U.S. government before foreign tribunals and demand compensation for lost revenue due to U.S. laws they claim undermine their TPP privileges or their investment "expectations."

Despite NAFTA’s failures, corporations are arm-twisting the federal government to pursue trade agreements as inevitable and necessary for economic progress. But 26 of the 28 chapters of this agreement have nothing to do with trade. TPP was drafted with the oversight of 600 representatives of multinational corporations, who essentially gave themselves whatever they wanted; the environment, public health, worker safety, further domestic job losses be damned.

http://rt.com/usa/news/tpp-obama-corporations-trade-725/


Last month, Senator Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) introduced legislation that specifically targets the Obama administration by demanding that the White House open up on details about the proposed TPP. Despite serving as chair of the United States Senate Finance Subcommittee on International Trade, Customs, and Global Competitiveness, Sen. Wyden has been largely left uninformed about the details of the TPP all while the White House has opened up to the multinational corporations expected to profit through the proposal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html

This should be big news. Even while President Obama was saying that he thought a public option was a good idea and encouraging supporters to believe his healthcare plan would include one, he had promised for-profit hospital lobbyists that there would be no public option in the final bill.


http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/09/04/obamas-secret-plan-to-prop-up-housing-prices/


Private Equity firms are piling in to the housing market to take advantage of bargain basement prices on distressed inventory. The Obama administration is stealthily selling homes to big investors who are required to sign non-disclosure agreements to ensure that the public remains in the dark as to the magnitude of the giveaway. Aside from the steep discounts on the homes themselves, the government is also providing “synthetic financing to reduce the up-front capital required if they agree to form a joint venture with Fannie Mae and share proceeds from the rental or sale of properties.” (Businessweek)

In other words, US-taxpayers are providing extravagant financing for deep-pocket speculators who want to reduce their risk while maximizing their profits via additional leverage. The plan resembles Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s Public-Private Partnership Investment Program, (PPIP) which Columbia University professor Joseph Stiglitz denounced in an op-ed in the New York Times. Here’s what he said:

“The Obama administration’s $500 billion or more proposal to deal with America’s ailing banks has been described by some in the financial markets as a win-win-win proposal. Actually, it is a win-win-lose proposal: the banks win, investors win — and taxpayers lose.”

The same rule applies here. Speculators are getting lavish incentives (gov financing, low rates, and severe discounts) in secret deals to buy distressed inventory which should be available to the public at market prices. If that’s not a ripoff, then what is?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/obama-goes-all-out-for-dirty-banker-deal-20110824

A power play is underway in the foreclosure arena, according to the New York Times.

On the one side is Eric Schneiderman, the New York Attorney General, who is conducting his own investigation into the era of securitizations – the practice of chopping up assets like mortgages and converting them into saleable securities – that led up to the financial crisis of 2007-2008.

On the other side is the Obama administration, the banks, and all the other state attorneys general.

This second camp has cooked up a deal that would allow the banks to walk away with just a seriously discounted fine from a generation of fraud that led to millions of people losing their homes.

The idea behind this federally-guided “settlement” is to concentrate and centralize all the legal exposure accrued by this generation of grotesque banker corruption in one place, put one single price tag on it that everyone can live with, and then stuff the details into a titanium canister before shooting it into deep space.

This is all about protecting the banks from future enforcement actions on both the civil and criminal sides. The plan is to provide year-after-year, repeat-offending banks like Bank of America with cost certainty, so that they know exactly how much they’ll have to pay in fines (trust me, it will end up being a tiny fraction of what they made off the fraudulent practices) and will also get to know for sure that there are no more criminal investigations in the pipeline.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/obama-and-geithner-government-enron-style-20111220

The notion that what Wall Street firms did was merely unethical and not illegal is not just mistaken but preposterous: most everyone who works in the financial services industry understands that fraud right now is not just pervasive but epidemic, with many of the biggest banks committing entire departments to the routine commission of fraud and perjury – every single one of the major banks, for instance, devotes significant manpower to robosigning affidavits for foreclosures and credit card judgments, acts which are openly and inarguably criminal.

Banks and hedge funds routinely withhold derogatory information about the instruments they sell, they routinely trade on insider information or ahead of their own clients’ orders, and corrupt accounting is so rampant now that industry analysts have begun to figure in estimated levels of fraud in their examinations of the public disclosures of major financial companies.

Beyond that, as Jeff points out, Obama is simply not telling the truth about the supposedly insufficient penalties available to regulators. Employing the famous "mistakes were made" use of the passive tense, Obama copped out in his December 6 speech by saying that “penalties are too weak." As Jeff points out, what Obama should have said is that "the penalties my own regulators chose to dish out were too weak":

Moreover, the President is misleading us when he says that Wall Street firms violate anti-fraud law because the penalties are too weak. Repeat financial fraudsters don't pay relatively paltry -- and therefore painless -- penalties because of statutory caps on such penalties. Rather, regulatory officials, appointed by Obama, negotiated these comparatively trifling fines. This week, the F.D.I.C. settled a suit against Washington Mutual officials for just $64 million, an amount that will be covered mostly by insurance policies WaMu took out on behalf of executives, who themselves will pay just $400,000. And recently a federal judge rejected the S.E.C.'s latest settlement with Citigroup, an action even the Wall Street Journal called "a rebuke of the cozy relationship between regulators and the regulated that too often leaves justice as an orphan."

What makes Obama’s statements so dangerous is that they suggest an ongoing strategy of covering up the Wall Street crimewave. There is ample evidence out there that the Obama administration has eased up on prosecutions of Wall Street as part of a conscious strategy to prevent a collapse of confidence in our financial system, with the expected 50-state foreclosure settlement being the landmark effort in the cover-up, intended mainly to bury a generation of fraud. Here’s how Jeff puts it:

In Ron Suskind's book, Confidence Men, he quotes Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner as saying, "The confidence in the system is so fragile still... a disclosure of a fraud... could result in a run, just like Lehman." The Obama Administration is pushing hard for a 50-state settlement with the major banks for their fraudulent foreclosure practices, even though several state attorneys general have rejected this approach because, in their view, it would shield too much wrongdoing. Regrettably, Obama's top officials and lawyers seem more eager to restore the financial sector to health than establish criminal accountability among the executives who were in charge.

In other words, Geithner and Obama are behaving like Lehman executives before the crash of Lehman, not disclosing the full extent of the internal problem in order to keep investors from fleeing and creditors from calling in their chits. It’s worth noting that this kind of behavior – knowingly hiding the derogatory truth from the outside world in order to prevent a run on the bank – is, itself, fraud!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/20/us-drones-strikes-target-rescuers-pakistan

The US government has long maintained, reasonably enough, that a defining tactic of terrorism is to launch a follow-up attack aimed at those who go to the scene of the original attack to rescue the wounded and remove the dead. Morally, such methods have also been widely condemned by the west as a hallmark of savagery. Yet, as was demonstrated yet again this weekend in Pakistan, this has become one of the favorite tactics of the very same US government.
smackeddog
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9/5/2012  3:40 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I knmow a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE

I honestly think in the years and decades ahead, people are going to look back on all these bailouts as one of the greatest swindles of all time- the money has simply vanished but everyone has had to pay for it. At the very least I'd rather the money had gone to wiping out normal peoples debts- at least that would have rejuvenated people's spending power and would have lessened the burden people are now under.

Great points too Nalod.

Also to people who don't think Romney will get elected- who honestly thought Dubya would get a second term?! The worst president possibly of all time.

I'm very left wing anyways, but some modern day republicans are flat out crooks who only care about making themselves and their friends richer- how have more reasonable republicans lost their power and profile?

mrKnickShot
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9/5/2012  3:52 PM
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I knmow a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE

I honestly think in the years and decades ahead, people are going to look back on all these bailouts as one of the greatest swindles of all time- the money has simply vanished but everyone has had to pay for it. At the very least I'd rather the money had gone to wiping out normal peoples debts- at least that would have rejuvenated people's spending power and would have lessened the burden people are now under.

Great points too Nalod.

Also to people who don't think Romney will get elected- who honestly thought Dubya would get a second term?! The worst president possibly of all time.

I'm very left wing anyways, but some modern day republicans are flat out crooks who only care about making themselves and their friends richer- how have more reasonable republicans lost their power and profile?

A lot of money went to reducing the debt/burden of regular consumers. People negotiated their mortgages, credit cards ...

holfresh
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9/5/2012  4:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/5/2012  4:47 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I will not vote this year. While I like Pres Obama and think he is an absolute legit man who cares and wants to do the right thing---I believe there are to many times he has just disappeared. Just think--how many times have we even seen Obama speak in the last 4 years--hes kept the lowest profile I have ever seen as a President. Now while we took on all that debt to save our banking system--tell me what wouldve been wrong with spending 500B-1T more to create a massive wave of jobs? This is the big whammie IMHO. You can't create a buffer for the economy without feeding the source--and the source will always be jobs. The more jobs--the stronger the economy and the backbone of the country. Huge mistake--but CAN still be rectified. I knmow a little about Bain Capital and that is all I need to know about Mitt Romney----I dont trust him and believe you me---he does nOT give a fudge about you. The difference is Romney is probably a better man to lead our economy---but it will come at a cost directly related to the middle class AGAIN. I dont trust Romney on foreign affairs he flips on issues at a dime. My preference would be for Obama to IMPROVE

I honestly think in the years and decades ahead, people are going to look back on all these bailouts as one of the greatest swindles of all time- the money has simply vanished but everyone has had to pay for it. At the very least I'd rather the money had gone to wiping out normal peoples debts- at least that would have rejuvenated people's spending power and would have lessened the burden people are now under.

Great points too Nalod.

Also to people who don't think Romney will get elected- who honestly thought Dubya would get a second term?! The worst president possibly of all time.

I'm very left wing anyways, but some modern day republicans are flat out crooks who only care about making themselves and their friends richer- how have more reasonable republicans lost their power and profile?

A lot of money went to reducing the debt/burden of regular consumers. People negotiated their mortgages, credit cards ...

Most banks paid back the money that was borrowed...The government actually made money on Citibank...Goldman, Chase, Morgan Stanley all paid back with interest...AIG still owes but the government had been selling some stock a few years back, but it seems like there will be a profit there down the road as well...The auto companies I'm not really sure about, they paid back most of the money but when u look at the economy saving 1 million jobs, it's been a win win with revenues going back o the government in terms of taxes...About 350 mill went towards tax cuts which the right don't want to own but they authored part of this legislation...Money went towards States/Cities to keep fire houses open, teachers, and police officers employed which delayed their firing about a year...So overall it was money well spend...Kept us from the brink...And we were there...I work in the financial industry and it was real...Banks were on the brink...And if one or two banks go under, the entire system would have collapsed..They big banks do so many trades with each other that they owe each other billions in future trades...If one can't pay then the payee don't have funds to operate and pay the other guy...And so on and so forth...I remember driving home watching people crossing the street thinking these folks have no idea how close we are to changing the way everyone lives...Think about this, Supermarkets borrow money to stock their shelves...If the banks go under then what???..Don't sleep, vote, we dodged a bullet big time and we did it as only America can do it, swept it under the rug, turn on American Idol and forget what just happened...

mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157
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Member: #3553

9/5/2012  4:55 PM
I watched an excellent Documentary on the bailout - here it is:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

arkrud
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USA
9/5/2012  5:20 PM
Last election Americans prove that they are not racists, this elections they need to prove that they are not idiots.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
jrodmc
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USA
9/5/2012  5:31 PM
Nalod wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:Im reading the party platforms and I get stuck on the abortion position which only becomes at surface every 4 years.

If my Daughter is brutally raped and the pregnancy could kill her, by law she can't abort. Im not "pro abortion" but Im prochoice.


Riiiiiiiiiight, that's what the GOP has always stood for on the abortion issue: Kill the mother, save the baby. Great left wing liberal straw man you've got there. My main man Alan Keyes doesn't even approach that amount of stupidity.

Of course, we all know that 99% of all abortions are performed due to brutal rape, right?

Abortion on demand. For any reason. Convenience. Expedience. Interfering with school and career. Varicose veins. Mental stress.

How's this sound: We will not only legislate the ability to kill the unborn for any reason and all reasons, but we will also introduce the ability to kill unwanted infants immediately after they are born. Thank you Senator Obama, the great state of Illinois thanks you for your service.

Oh, and Daughter Nalod, once you're say, 13 or so, you're free to go abort at any time, and don't feel pressured to tell moms and pops. They might not agree with your choice. We the People need to protect your constitutional rights.

Nalod wrote:Any platform that won't recognize a same sex civil union and defines same sex marriage from a religious document is promoting discrimination and in violation of the constitution.

The platform recognizes same sex civil unions. The point is the REDEFINITION OF MARRIAGE, not same sex civil unions, or defining same sex marriage, which is like defining married bachelors.

Discrimination? Sexual preference is truly equivalent to race? Can I go into the local mosque during services and start singing praises to Jesus at the top of my lungs? When they escort me out of the building, isn't that discrimination? Aren't they violating the constitution?

Nalod wrote:I can't support a platform that attempts to legislate morality and misses the mark.

We agree. Although legislating immorality hits the mark everytime, right?

Not sure Im getting you.

If you're going to play the reading incomprehension card, at least sign in as your alter ego.

JesseDark
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9/5/2012  7:38 PM
I read this thread and have to applaude everyone for not turning it into the usual food fight (for the most part) that political talk usually turns into on the net. The thing I find disapponting is the thought of someone intentionally not voting. I find it a total turn off. I see it as a vote for the other guy.
Bring back dee-fense
VCoug
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9/5/2012  7:52 PM
JesseDark wrote:I read this thread and have to applaude everyone for not turning it into the usual food fight (for the most part) that political talk usually turns into on the net. The thing I find disapponting is the thought of someone intentionally not voting. I find it a total turn off. I see it as a vote for the other guy.

Oh, is that what you think?!

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Bonn1997
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USA
9/5/2012  9:03 PM
JesseDark wrote:I read this thread and have to applaude everyone for not turning it into the usual food fight (for the most part) that political talk usually turns into on the net. The thing I find disapponting is the thought of someone intentionally not voting. I find it a total turn off. I see it as a vote for the other guy.

Almost everyone here is a Democrat. Or at least no one has come out supporting Romney. So there's nothing to fight over.
mrKnickShot
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9/5/2012  9:09 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
JesseDark wrote:I read this thread and have to applaude everyone for not turning it into the usual food fight (for the most part) that political talk usually turns into on the net. The thing I find disapponting is the thought of someone intentionally not voting. I find it a total turn off. I see it as a vote for the other guy.

Almost everyone here is a Democrat. Or at least no one has come out supporting Romney. So there's nothing to fight over.

Many independents or repubs who just can't get excited about Romney as well (I am sure). Republicans have been putting up some really horrendous candidates.

Bob Dole, McCain, Georgy ... Romney? Geez!

OT: NO ELECTION THREADS?

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