loweyecue wrote:

CashMoney wrote:

loweyecue wrote:If Melo gets hurt or is shooting 2-13 from the field we are going to average 50-60 points a game unless someone else steps up with Linsanity type numbers. Our defense is again being overrated. We have very little perimeter defense good outside shooting teams will kill us. We also have no speed on defense opposing team fast breaks will be brutal to watch. Shumpert will be a big part of the equation if he plays at the levels he showed before but who knows if he will even play this season.

The hope is both Melo and Amare play the way the way they should but should one have an off night it's the others job to get it done. I don't think our defense is being overrated. This team should be in the top 10 if not better considering we upgraded and held teams to 94.65 points per game last year. What does speed on fast break defense have to do with anything? I think Shump will play but I'm not expecting the player we saw last year unitl the 2013-2014 season.

Hope is not a strategy. How did that work out last year?
Our team has very few options on offense and a long list of "IF"s for things to fall in place. Not a credible high percentage outcome. We did not address our needs on offense, which was mostly stagnant and one dimensional under Woody. ( Yeah I have already read the long list of excuses).

Our defense was already top 5 in the league wasn't it? The improvement from adding 40 year old bench players will be marginal at best. On the other hand we were rated 17th on offense. This may easily slide to the low 20s, given our offseason moves and choice of coaching. (Both ranks are from Basketball-Rederence)

Last year was a train wreck. No traning camp, condensed schedule and NO PG. 17th on offense last year? Thinking about this logically we had a grand total of 7 GAMES where we had Melo, Amare and an actual healthy and competent PG in Lin playing together at the same time. 7 GAMES! Baron did we he could but the guy was not close to playing injury free at any point last year and we all know all too well about TD. Melo and Amare played a total of 40 games together during the regular season and 7 with a PG.

This is the FIRST TIME Melo and Amare have had a FULL TRAINING CAMP TOGETHER along with an actual PG. Our offense will be fine. We averaged 96 points per game Under Woody and gave up 91 pts per game under Woody. Based on last years stats, sustaining that level of play for the full season would have put is in the middle of the pack on offense and top 5 on defense.

I can care less about the ages of our backups. The bottom line is that they both can play and give us exactly what we lacked last year. This is the best team we've had in over 10 years. I'm optimistic and excited about this year. Seems to me that you're choosing to go the other way.

Felton may defend better than Lin.
But he simply should not be compared with his penetration, handle, IQ, shooting, ability to finish, speed/quickness.

Jason Kidd is a bigger version of Bibby, neither has the ability to penetrate.
With his size, he can defend some bigger stronger guards, but cannot stay in front of quick guards, especially with athleticism.
Kidd was signed to be mentor, he simply cannot be an impact as a 39+.
We don't even have anyone that can be developed/benefit from absorbing the knowledge of the vets that we added.

While Pablo might penetrate slightly better than Kidd, they are both horrible.
They are both pass first PG's but they do not have the ability to penetrate/finish to attack and break down any decent opponents defense.
I consider them both similar players, while I would have preferred Nate Robinson with his ability to penetrate and finish for the minimum veterans exception.

Honestly, I would have Patty Mills/Nate Robinson and many other players for the veterans minimum than Kidd/Pablo, and use the money elsewhere, like for Delfino.

Camby is a better Center than Jeffries, but he isn't the versatile defender ON THE BALL, that Jeffries is.
He is a help great weak side help defender, but Jeffries brings a lot to the table that stats simply do not show.
We did not find a player that replaces what Jeffries brings.
Kurt Thomas cannot defend SF/PF's, and guards, he is a 3rd string undersized Center at best.
Whether Camby can coexist with Tyson Chandler together, and compliment Amare better than Tyson would be the difference.
Camby would give us another player outside of Chandler that can rebound, block shots, and defend the paint at center.
Having Jeffries as the primary defender for the SF,PF,C (Ex. will be defending the Kevin Loves, Dirks, Lebron etc,) and having Camby and/or Tyson as the help defenders, behind him would have been ideal.
Simply put, they are apples and oranges, and cannot be compared for one another, we actually would miss what Jeffries brings to the table.

Brewer was a great addition, especially for the price.
Especially him being vocal about "Standing AROUND, and watching Melo go 1v1"

RonRon wrote:I think many over rate, our additions, by saying how DEEP we became.

Felton may defend better than Lin.
But he simply should not be compared with his penetration, handle, IQ, shooting, ability to finish, speed/quickness.

Jason Kidd is a bigger version of Bibby, neither has the ability to penetrate.
With his size, he can defend some bigger stronger guards, but cannot stay in front of quick guards, especially with athleticism.
Kidd was signed to be mentor, he simply cannot be an impact as a 39+.
We don't even have anyone that can be developed/benefit from absorbing the knowledge of the vets that we added.

While Pablo might penetrate slightly better than Kidd, they are both horrible.
They are both pass first PG's but they do not have the ability to penetrate/finish to attack and break down any decent opponents defense.
I consider them both similar players, while I would have preferred Nate Robinson with his ability to penetrate and finish for the minimum veterans exception.

Honestly, I would have Patty Mills/Nate Robinson and many other players for the veterans minimum than Kidd/Pablo, and use the money elsewhere, like for Delfino.

Camby is a better Center than Jeffries, but he isn't the versatile defender ON THE BALL, that Jeffries is.
He is a help great weak side help defender, but Jeffries brings a lot to the table that stats simply do not show.
We did not find a player that replaces what Jeffries brings.
Kurt Thomas cannot defend SF/PF's, and guards, he is a 3rd string undersized Center at best.
Whether Camby can coexist with Tyson Chandler together, and compliment Amare better than Tyson would be the difference.
Camby would give us another player outside of Chandler that can rebound, block shots, and defend the paint at center.
Having Jeffries as the primary defender for the SF,PF,C (Ex. will be defending the Kevin Loves, Dirks, Lebron etc,) and having Camby and/or Tyson as the help defenders, behind him would have been ideal.
Simply put, they are apples and oranges, and cannot be compared for one another, we actually would miss what Jeffries brings to the table.

Brewer was a great addition, especially for the price.
Especially him being vocal about "Standing AROUND, and watching Melo go 1v1"

Felton is not a star but the guy has a handle, can drive and dish which is what we need. He's not as quick as Lin but he won't turn the ball over as much either. Lin may turn out to be the better player in a few years but for right now IMHO it's a wash. Besides, nt telling what Lin is and what he's going to be until the seaon is in play.

Kidd can't penetrate like he used to but he can run an offense and will put the ball where needed for easy hoops. Another thing is that he can play and defend the 2 as well. Either way Kidd/Prigs > Davis/Bibby.

Jeffries wiil be missed for his hustle and D but I won't miss the constant bricks on wide open shots as well as blown layups. Besides, I think his knee condition will keep him on the becnh more often than the floor. Jeffries brought energy but with the exception of drawing charges the guy was useless. We can resign him once Portland releases him sometime next year.

We were deep last year as in Mobb Deep and the team is now better. How are we not deep?

RonRon wrote:I think many over rate, our additions, by saying how DEEP we became.

Felton may defend better than Lin.
But he simply should not be compared with his penetration, handle, IQ, shooting, ability to finish, speed/quickness.

Jason Kidd is a bigger version of Bibby, neither has the ability to penetrate.
With his size, he can defend some bigger stronger guards, but cannot stay in front of quick guards, especially with athleticism.
Kidd was signed to be mentor, he simply cannot be an impact as a 39+.
We don't even have anyone that can be developed/benefit from absorbing the knowledge of the vets that we added.

While Pablo might penetrate slightly better than Kidd, they are both horrible.
They are both pass first PG's but they do not have the ability to penetrate/finish to attack and break down any decent opponents defense.
I consider them both similar players, while I would have preferred Nate Robinson with his ability to penetrate and finish for the minimum veterans exception.

Honestly, I would have Patty Mills/Nate Robinson and many other players for the veterans minimum than Kidd/Pablo, and use the money elsewhere, like for Delfino.

Camby is a better Center than Jeffries, but he isn't the versatile defender ON THE BALL, that Jeffries is.
He is a help great weak side help defender, but Jeffries brings a lot to the table that stats simply do not show.
We did not find a player that replaces what Jeffries brings.
Kurt Thomas cannot defend SF/PF's, and guards, he is a 3rd string undersized Center at best.
Whether Camby can coexist with Tyson Chandler together, and compliment Amare better than Tyson would be the difference.
Camby would give us another player outside of Chandler that can rebound, block shots, and defend the paint at center.
Having Jeffries as the primary defender for the SF,PF,C (Ex. will be defending the Kevin Loves, Dirks, Lebron etc,) and having Camby and/or Tyson as the help defenders, behind him would have been ideal.
Simply put, they are apples and oranges, and cannot be compared for one another, we actually would miss what Jeffries brings to the table.

Brewer was a great addition, especially for the price.
Especially him being vocal about "Standing AROUND, and watching Melo go 1v1"

I think you are really undervaluing Kidd. I think as a teammate and locker room presence he has Messier like qualities. His game may not be what it was but his knowledge, and leadership are tremendous. I think on this team his role will be huge. It will be interesting to see if he has a starting position in the back court to give him more juice in the locker room and on the practice floor. I wouldn't rule it out but I think his minutes will be limited.

I get really frustrated when guys dismiss the signing of Pablo. He is going to make 488,000 next year. His cap hit is almost 800,000 less than the vet min guy. He also is reported to be a guy the Knicks have been interested in for several years. I don't know how anyone questions this move. The guy is coming in with a terrrific resume and is being paid almost nothing by nba standards. Suggesting to bring back a hardhead like Nate for more money when you are trying to compete for a championship and balance the cap doesn't make any sense to me.

Getting Camby in my opinion was brilliant. For all of the praise of Chandler and his defense, he seemed to acquire fouls at a quick rate and also gets hurt or ill frequently. Camby is still a beast. If Amare or Chandler struggle having Camby as the first guy off the bench is an amazing advantage over other teams. Camby isn't playing 40 minutes but he is very productive on the court. Not sure that Jordan, or Jorts come anywhere close to the numbers he puts up this year anytime in their career. I guess it will depend on what opportunities they get if they are picked up off of waivers.

I think Thomas is just going to play the role Terry Cummings did for the Knicks. Bang the sh@t out of guys, frustrate them, and get them into foul trouble in limited minutes. Again, I don't see Jorts or Jordan fitting that role whenever they are signed by another team and I am not sure how much or if Jeffries is able to play.