This guy has always been a professional and even though he's not working with Hakeem doesn't mean that he's not going to work on his game this offseason. He's the DPOY and people are complaining about his offense?

CashMoney wrote:Chandler = Defense.

This guy has always been a professional and even though he's not working with Hakeem doesn't mean that he's not going to work on his game this offseason. He's the DPOY and people are complaining about his offense?

Cash, winning DPOY gives one a pass to not work on their offensive game? You don't see that as a whole in his game? He is not Mark Eaton, he can do better.

mrKnickShot wrote:

CashMoney wrote:Chandler = Defense.

This guy has always been a professional and even though he's not working with Hakeem doesn't mean that he's not going to work on his game this offseason. He's the DPOY and people are complaining about his offense?

Cash, winning DPOY gives one a pass to not work on their offensive game? You don't see that as a whole in his game? He is not Mark Eaton, he can do better.

Tyson not working with Hakeem doesn't mean he's not working on his game. It just means he's not working on his game with Hakeem. When did working with Hakeem become the focal point as to whether or not a player is working on his game or wants to improve?

All players have a hole in their game. What I'm saying is why are people harping on Tyson's offensive game when he's paid to be a defensive anchor and just came off of winning DPOY?

fishmike wrote:this is silly. Guy wins DPOY and people are concerned about his jumper. Does nobody follow the NBA? Have IQs suddenly dropped since the MElo trade (dont answer that).

Seriously.. I want players on the roster to do what they do best the way they do it the best. Isnt that why MDA failed and Woody succeeded?

Were Piston's fans upset Ben Wallace didnt have a better jump shot? Tyson Chandler learning a couple hack post moves or working on his jumper isnt helping the Knicks. Learning Woody's D schemes, watching film and being the QB on that side of the ball will.

Same thing for Melo and Amare. Amare has one of the best (if not THE best) face up scoring games in the NBA in the last 20 years droping 20+ at a Shaqlike 55%. And people are harping on his lack of back to the basket skills. Melo (dodgy shot selection aside) is one of the games elite finishers and can take over games scoring at times.

Look... my point is simple. The focus shouldnt be on what the Knick roster cant do, rather what it can. There are some exceptional pieces here. Its a very talented roster. Yes, all the players have holes in their games, but we also have the other players to cover their holes. Chandler can cover Amare's poor rotations and defense (not saying he shouldnt try) the way Ewing used to cover Houston's slow feet on defense. Remember Houston was a servicable defender because he could the driving player to the shot blockers. That sort of thing.

When Amare sits lets get Melo at the 4 and Novak at the 3, JR at the 2, Kidd at the 1 and Chandler at the 5 and lets let Melo take on an opposing 4 with space to operate.

These sorts of things...

The Knicks of the 90s had tons of holes also, but were able to got the finals 2x and advanced every year for a decade (a very impressive feat for Ewing who clearly made others around him better). BUT Ewing was black hole and remember the garden moans when he started to dribble? Remember Oakley's idiotic passes trying to start fast breaks? Remember that 15 foot flick wrist jumper Mason used to take? (awful). We could do this all day.

Pressure is on Woody in my opinion. This team has the parts to be elite if the players are in a position to do what they do best.

I see only two questions stopping us from a conference finals trip vs. Miami:
1) can Melo and Amare coexist at a high level and be effective
2) can Woody put this pieces in a position to do what they do best

Blind love is a dangerous thing. I like chandler a lot and defensive player of the year is wonderful but what the hell does that have to do with his offensive game?

You want players on the court who do what they do best? So why does Amare need Hakeem camp?

Tyson does not necessarily need Hakeem camp but for a guy who is a decent FT shooter, why can't he help keep the defense honest and not phuck up Amare's and the Knicks offense? Why can Ibaka develop a jumper? Dalembert? Camby? ... HE IS NOT BEN WALACE!!! Walace could not shoot a FT if his life depended on it - horrible comparison!

Ibaka is arguably better than Tyson defensively for his career, was a very close second and is on the FIRST TEAM ALL DEFENSE. Why can't he stick to what he does best, defense, and who freakin cares about his jumper? BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE DUMB.

So IBAKA will get max money while Tyson is what he is.

Why not allow the opposing defense to sag off Tyson so Amare can have more turnovers. Let him stick to defense. WE TALKIN IQ?

Bonn1997 wrote:There have been plenty of great athletes and great defensive players who didn't develop offensive games. You're assuming, MrK, but not providing any evidence for, Chandler's lack of effort over his career (a guilty until proven innocent assumption). This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react. If you had some evidence, some quotes from Chandler or even from past teammates or coaches saying Chandler doesn't work on his offensive game, your view would be more plausible but you appear not to have such evidence.

Was he not scheduled to workout with Hakeem? Did Woody not set that up? Obviously our coach saw a need and attempted to rectify it.

Is Hakeem going? No, he is going to Africa - GREAT!

Working on his game was more important for the Knicks than him playing in the olympics. He was not good in the olympics and should stick to what he's good at.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There have been plenty of great athletes and great defensive players who didn't develop offensive games. You're assuming, MrK, but not providing any evidence for, Chandler's lack of effort over his career (a guilty until proven innocent assumption). This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react. If you had some evidence, some quotes from Chandler or even from past teammates or coaches saying Chandler doesn't work on his offensive game, your view would be more plausible but you appear not to have such evidence.

Was he not scheduled to workout with Hakeem? Did Woody not set that up? Obviously our coach saw a need and attempted to rectify it.

Is Hakeem going? No, he is going to Africa - GREAT!

Working on his game was more important for the Knicks than him playing in the olympics. He was not good in the olympics and should stick to what he's good at.

Yeah Woody did set it up. However, the dude does not seem rest time. He was playing with a bad wrist for most of the season last year and hurt his finger during the Olympics. Besides, I think we can survive with Tyson shooting 68% from the field.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There have been plenty of great athletes and great defensive players who didn't develop offensive games. You're assuming, MrK, but not providing any evidence for, Chandler's lack of effort over his career (a guilty until proven innocent assumption). This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react. If you had some evidence, some quotes from Chandler or even from past teammates or coaches saying Chandler doesn't work on his offensive game, your view would be more plausible but you appear not to have such evidence.

Was he not scheduled to workout with Hakeem? Did Woody not set that up? Obviously our coach saw a need and attempted to rectify it.

Is Hakeem going? No, he is going to Africa - GREAT!

Working on his game was more important for the Knicks than him playing in the olympics. He was not good in the olympics and should stick to what he's good at.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There have been plenty of great athletes and great defensive players who didn't develop offensive games. You're assuming, MrK, but not providing any evidence for, Chandler's lack of effort over his career (a guilty until proven innocent assumption). This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react. If you had some evidence, some quotes from Chandler or even from past teammates or coaches saying Chandler doesn't work on his offensive game, your view would be more plausible but you appear not to have such evidence.

Was he not scheduled to workout with Hakeem? Did Woody not set that up? Obviously our coach saw a need and attempted to rectify it.

Is Hakeem going? No, he is going to Africa - GREAT!

Working on his game was more important for the Knicks than him playing in the olympics. He was not good in the olympics and should stick to what he's good at.

Obviously he thought he could do both but later realized he couldn't. You didn't address anything I wrote.

I don't have evidence that he is not in the Gym shooting 1000 shots a day but I don't he will be doing that in Africa. And, his offensive play on the court is pretty good evidence that he can work harder on his offensive game. Do you assume that he cannot develop some sort of set shot?

I don't care as much about post moves than I do about a mid range shot.

Very few players were considered GREAT players without an offensive game. Ben Walace who was a better defender and a far far far better rebounder will still not make the HOF. Mark Eaton? Dennis Rodman was an extreme exception but being 1st team all defense annually and grabbing 15-18 boards a game does help his case.

I have no idea what your point is with the statement(s) below:

"This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react."

Are you saying he is not good enough or quick enough to pull this off?

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There have been plenty of great athletes and great defensive players who didn't develop offensive games. You're assuming, MrK, but not providing any evidence for, Chandler's lack of effort over his career (a guilty until proven innocent assumption). This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react. If you had some evidence, some quotes from Chandler or even from past teammates or coaches saying Chandler doesn't work on his offensive game, your view would be more plausible but you appear not to have such evidence.

Was he not scheduled to workout with Hakeem? Did Woody not set that up? Obviously our coach saw a need and attempted to rectify it.

Is Hakeem going? No, he is going to Africa - GREAT!

Working on his game was more important for the Knicks than him playing in the olympics. He was not good in the olympics and should stick to what he's good at.

Obviously he thought he could do both but later realized he couldn't. You didn't address anything I wrote.

I don't have evidence that he is not in the Gym shooting 1000 shots a day but I don't he will be doing that in Africa. And, his offensive play on the court is pretty good evidence that he can work harder on his offensive game. Do you assume that he cannot develop some sort of set shot?

I don't care as much about post moves than I do about a mid range shot.

Very few players were considered GREAT players without an offensive game. Ben Walace who was a better defender and a far far far better rebounder will still not make the HOF. Mark Eaton? Dennis Rodman was an extreme exception but being 1st team all defense annually and grabbing 15-18 boards a game does help his case.

I have no idea what your point is with the statement(s) below:

"This is not a YMCA pickup game. Chandler might have outstanding post moves there. He's going up against the best defensive players in the world. In the NBA, you have to not only have the moves but also be able to pull them off with outstanding quickness so that the defense can't react."

Are you saying he is not good enough or quick enough to pull this off?

I'm saying we don't know and I'm not going to assume guilt until innocence is proven.

I forgot. You don't make assumptions based on what you see on the court

BTW, did you not find it interesting that Coach K had very little use for him? Even against the Gasol's? I don't really have evidence for this but I assume it had something to do with his offensive game or lack thereof.