Woodson also played under Red Holzman and is guided by Red's pearls as a coach.

Mike Woodson is simply a better person than Mike D'Antoni and players respond to that.

It ain't that deep.

Good Man. Happy Players.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:I always hear how great MDA was...What a great coach, LB was great too...Just not in NY...That Dolan!!!!...MDA got out coached at every turn in the playoffs against Boston...I'm not even comparing players..Doc made him look...Don't get me started!!!!

You really think you can just blatantly state GARBAGE and get away with it? For one thing Doc had a Championship level SL with players that actually fit together and had been thru the wars together. MDA was coaching a team that had just been thrown together and wasn't nearly as good. Then you have the injuries to key players... But let's just ignore the f'n facts. Man GTFO with this BS!
Don't say another word in this thread if you're gonna spew this crap.

There was a quote from a knick politely trashing d'ant, his style and coaching in the celtic series. I don't recall it verbatim but I used it as my sig for a year.

G

CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

You are wasting your time with this incredible post. MDA Lovers, Lin Worshippers & Melo haters will ignore this and continue with their rants.

I was listening to Dino Costa on the radio the other day..people really do hate Melo..You would think Melo slapped his mother. He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

i really hope the Knicks shut people up this year.

FoeDiddy wrote:He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

Dude was dead set on getting traded and signing a max extension before the new CBA came out. One a side note the stars who just won the title all took paycuts to make the team better. Granted its rare but the precedent and bar have been set.

Knicks had max cap space. NOTHING was stopping Melo from coming here in the offseason and playing on a team that had Mosgov, Felton, Gallo, Stat, Fields, draft picks, la la la

It doesnt matter if its fair or not, but Melo's history is Melo comes first. None of this would matter if he won something but he has both NOT won and performed poorly in the postseason so there you go. People just dont get excited about having this guy jammed down their throats and any criticism being met with hater comments.

I still havent gotten a good answer from a single poster here. What has Melo done do deserve your undying love as a fan? Seems most are still waiting

fishmike wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

tell me one thing Melo has done in the NBA that says team and winning first, Melo 2nd. Most people are calling it like they see it. As for the winning part I hope that isnt the case.

Dude was dead set on getting traded and signing a max extension before the new CBA came out. One a side note the stars who just won the title all took paycuts to make the team better. Granted its rare but the precedent and bar have been set.

Knicks had max cap space. NOTHING was stopping Melo from coming here in the offseason and playing on a team that had Mosgov, Felton, Gallo, Stat, Fields, draft picks, la la la

It doesnt matter if its fair or not, but Melo's history is Melo comes first. None of this would matter if he won something but he has both NOT won and performed poorly in the postseason so there you go. People just dont get excited about having this guy jammed down their throats and any criticism being met with hater comments.

I still havent gotten a good answer from a single poster here. What has Melo done do deserve your undying love as a fan? Seems most are still waiting

Pretty sure Brooklyn would've landed Melo, and as desperation, we would've sought Deron or CP3 and did basically the same thing with draft picks, players, etc. If we struck out on both, for sure Dwight's agent cell would've been blowing up. That core you mentioned would've never remained no matter what.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

tell me one thing Melo has done in the NBA that says team and winning first, Melo 2nd. Most people are calling it like they see it. As for the winning part I hope that isnt the case.

Dude was dead set on getting traded and signing a max extension before the new CBA came out. One a side note the stars who just won the title all took paycuts to make the team better. Granted its rare but the precedent and bar have been set.

Knicks had max cap space. NOTHING was stopping Melo from coming here in the offseason and playing on a team that had Mosgov, Felton, Gallo, Stat, Fields, draft picks, la la la

It doesnt matter if its fair or not, but Melo's history is Melo comes first. None of this would matter if he won something but he has both NOT won and performed poorly in the postseason so there you go. People just dont get excited about having this guy jammed down their throats and any criticism being met with hater comments.

I still havent gotten a good answer from a single poster here. What has Melo done do deserve your undying love as a fan? Seems most are still waiting

He gave us an 18-6 stretch. That counts almost as much as a championship.

Let me guess, your next retort will be Mister .470 !

I crack myself up sometimes...

fishmike wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

tell me one thing Melo has done in the NBA that says team and winning first, Melo 2nd. Most people are calling it like they see it. As for the winning part I hope that isnt the case.

Dude was dead set on getting traded and signing a max extension before the new CBA came out. One a side note the stars who just won the title all took paycuts to make the team better. Granted its rare but the precedent and bar have been set.

Knicks had max cap space. NOTHING was stopping Melo from coming here in the offseason and playing on a team that had Mosgov, Felton, Gallo, Stat, Fields, draft picks, la la la

It doesnt matter if its fair or not, but Melo's history is Melo comes first. None of this would matter if he won something but he has both NOT won and performed poorly in the postseason so there you go. People just dont get excited about having this guy jammed down their throats and any criticism being met with hater comments.

I still havent gotten a good answer from a single poster here. What has Melo done do deserve your undying love as a fan? Seems most are still waiting

Difference in stating he has only come out the first round once then saying personal vindictive stuff like he was jealous of Lin, he will never win anything and Melo only cares about Melo. Dino Costa's tone was too angry like he hates dude for something other than basketball. Paul Pierce, Garnett & Ray Allen before the trades never won anything, now they are known as championship clutch guys. Look at the Pistons when they won their chip...Billups was a nobody, Hamilton was a stats filler, Rasheed Wallace was a malcontent. None of us know how the chips fall so to say oh Melo will never win anything is nothing but vindictive and personal hate.

His teammates never say anything bad about dude. In fact they seem to defend him. In Denver his team never said he was a bad guy and got along with Melo from what I could see. Prior to his trade he gave his all to denver still unlike guys like Dwight Howard.

And to talk about trade..u aren't in the boardrooms so you don't know if Knicks could have gotten Melo when he went to Free Agency. Look what happen with Lebron..we waited and he went elsewhere. I dont' miss any of the players we gave up. I'm a Knicks fan..not a player fan. from that group we still have Amare and Felton the two most consistent of that bunch pre-Melo.

CashMoney wrote:Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

How about we just look at what was the most significant factor in the wins this team had. The DEFENSE. Now let's remember that MDA resigned the day of the 1st win on the 14th, so it's not like Woody had a few practices to work his magic. In fact he had NO TIME to change anything of substance!!!

Mar. 14 Portland 79 pts
Mar. 16 Indiana 100 pts
Mar. 17 Indiana 88  pts
Mar. 20 Toronto 87  pts
Mar. 21 Philly  79  pts

Remember that during this stretch due to the closeness of the games there weren't any real practices and it was admitted by EVERYONE that Woody hadn't made any changes to the Offense or Defense. This was purely a shift in effort and most notably by Melo the teams best player and the guy who should've been leading by example all along. It would be nice if you could attribute the change to Wood's style of play and the removal of MDA and his system on O and D as the reason the team started busting it and winning, but we know for a FACT that Woody didn't really change what the team was doing and he barely had any time for a full practice with back to back games. PLEASE stop this garbage about Woody being more personable or him having some new grand strategy as some reason the team started winning. He didn't have time to change anything!!! PURE B.S.

CashMoney wrote:The simple truth of the matter is that us Knicks fans tend to have short memories.

We had no illuisons of winning anything in MDA's first 2 years on the job. The plan was to have Walsh clear cap space to set us up for a run at Lebron. His first 2 years on the job were throw away years. We all know that yet MDA haters find it necessary to point to his losing record during that time.

Here comes year 3 and we have STAT playing like a damn superhero for the Knicks to play .500 ball although many here will have memories of a championship caliber team who only started to falter due to trade rumors that were around since the start of the year.

At the start of last season, MDA himself stated that the Knicks had the talent to compete for a championship. This is where things become amusing to me. The Knicks were 6-4 leading up to the Memphis game, 2 games without STAT and TD runnng point. I did a game by game breakdown of the season in another thread so I'm not getting back into that but the Knicks record stood at 8-15 going into the Nets game (Start of Linsanity.) With Melo returning against the Nets, the Knicks record is at 16-16 and they close out the month of February going 2-2 and now have a record of 18-18

The Knicks open of the month of March going 0-6, 2 games without Tyson (Spurs & Bucks) leading up to MDA resignation and Woody taking over against the Blazers. STAT was in beast mode during the losing streak; 19.3 PTS, 8.3 RBDS, 1.1 BLKS, .548 FG%. Melo not so much; 20.5 PTS, 2.3 AST, 6.5 RBDS, .83 STLS, .388 FG%. As Melo is the man, he's going to get the blame...comes with the title. There is no denying that he did not play well. He was still putting up 18 shots a game but was hitting at only 38%.

However, this is what leaves me with a big question mark. Lin during the same 6 game stretch; 16.1 PTS, 7.3 ASTS, 3.8 TO, 2.5 STLS, .390 FG% Melo didn't shoot well but neither did Lin. Another big question mark during that stretch is that STAT is our 2nd best player yet he averaged 13.6 FGA's per game compared to Lin's 14.5 FGA per game. I'm not pointing this out to place blame on Lin!

Against the Celts and Mavs, Melo shoots 10 for 33, Lin shoots 10 for 29 and STAT shoots 17 for 34. Next game Melo goes 12-24, Lin goes 7 for 15 and STAT goes 6 for 12. Why in the hell is Lin taking more shots then STAT? Against the Sixers, Lin took the most shots on the team going 5 for 18. The issue that I have always had with MDA is the equal opporunity BS. You put the ball in your best players hands and have them take a majority of the shots. If STAT is an equal to Melo or our 2nd best player on the team why is he taking less shots per game than Lin? Melo should be taking a majority of the shots with STAT not too far behind.

Woodson had STAT, Melo and Lin for a total of 7 games and the Knicks go 6-1. Than as if by magic Melo become a better player. Hmmmm....interesting.

Melo during that 7 game stretch

14 PTS (6.5 points less)
1.5 STL (.67 more steals)
4.3 AST (2 assist more)
5.4 RBD (1.1 less)
.393 FG% (1.3% better)
13.4 FGA per game (4.6 less attempts per game)
Melo must have quit on Woody as well. He scored less, took less shots, didn't rebound as well as was still shooting less than 40% but become a more team oriented player becuase of the 2 additonal assists per game? Melo new found defensive intensity must not have carried over to hitting the boards either.

LIN
13.2 PTS (2.9 points less)
5.4 AST (1.9 less)
3.71 TO (.09 less)
1 STL (1.5 less)
.428 FG% (3.8% better)
9 FGA per game (5.5 less per game)

STAT
16.8 PTS (2.5 less)
8.1 RBD (.2 less)
1 BLK (same)
.578 FG% (3 % better)
10.8 FGA per game (2.8 less)

Seems to me that Woody made adjustements within the offense with regard to Melo & Lin and fine tuned things a bit with STAT. People can attribute the 6-1 record to the coaching change if they like but that also dismisses the 18-6 record over 36% of the season as well as his 9-4 (.692) record without Lin and without STAT.

Did Woody make MDA look bad? You're damn right he did.

This is poetry....Very nice break down sir!

Nalod wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:He stated Melo will never win anything, Melo only cares about Melo and he was jealous of Lin.

tell me one thing Melo has done in the NBA that says team and winning first, Melo 2nd. Most people are calling it like they see it. As for the winning part I hope that isnt the case.

Dude was dead set on getting traded and signing a max extension before the new CBA came out. One a side note the stars who just won the title all took paycuts to make the team better. Granted its rare but the precedent and bar have been set.

Knicks had max cap space. NOTHING was stopping Melo from coming here in the offseason and playing on a team that had Mosgov, Felton, Gallo, Stat, Fields, draft picks, la la la

It doesnt matter if its fair or not, but Melo's history is Melo comes first. None of this would matter if he won something but he has both NOT won and performed poorly in the postseason so there you go. People just dont get excited about having this guy jammed down their throats and any criticism being met with hater comments.

I still havent gotten a good answer from a single poster here. What has Melo done do deserve your undying love as a fan? Seems most are still waiting

Usually its quick deflection to reference "Gallo".

Yes, we all get that Melo is better than Gallo. NObody thought otherwise.

its really a question of it being good business for Melo and Dolan to build the marketing platform around melo.

Its not a basketball decision by itself.

MDA was not good for business. He was not personable and he could not win with Melo. It was necessary to get a coach that at least thinks he could win with Melo. The pay is not bad either.

Fans want to think the players are playing for them (city). Its a business. We trade these guys away (good riddence) and embrace the new guys as if they were our long lost brother. They tell us what we want to hear and fans buy it all the time.

Lebron even with his endoresemnts down still made 50+mill last year. He likely did not want to work for a lame idiot like Dolan with his silly rules and inconsistant management team. Look at Miami, there were times Spolstra was under the gun and Riles would just bring down his word that "this is the coach and play for him" and they players got it. Spolstra is no 5mil per year diva starphuch coach either. IN miami and other places the GM has a plan, the Owner endorses it and they attempt to execute. Here, the Owner waffles. Hire Walsh, then change your mind. Hire Isiah, take a dick, then make him coach his mess. Aronson in Miami has a plan, Has riles execute or attempt. They won a chip, rebuild bad with Beasley, then realized the mistake and moved on.

Plenty of GM's who have earned the respect of their owners and move with conviction thruout the league.

Not all teams win it but there is a graceful way of conducting business that can earn respect.

Respect for the owner of my favorite team is not something I can say I have. Its appalling at times!

Its a thin line between love and hate.........

You referenced the same riles that dumped all over SVG once he got a good roster? The Same snake Riles that weaseled his way out of New York? U don't think if the heat would have lost in the finals this year Spoelstra would have been fired in a heart beat.

Miami didn't have any plan...if they didnt' get Lebron they would be mediocre. That's not a plan..that's winning the lottery.

Yeah, the snake who dumped ranting SVG and won a title.

The same guy that got a slice of ownership in Miami. I dispise Riles.

BUt Riles has rings.

It takes preperation to have "Luck".

Spolstra and Miami won. So what do we get from that? Respect.

Preparation of what? He chose them..it was up to Lebron. It takes preparation to win the Lottery or do u just need to buy a ticket.

Do you think people respect Spoelstra more now after he won with that roster?