ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Kenny Who? Seems like a nice guy, but don't we have enough assistant coaches already? Herb's still around I think. Is that the guy that catches the rebounds of the shooters then passes it back to them? Irrelevant, we won't even hear a peep about Kenny Atkinson until we face Atlanta.

This is a pretty lame response.

He was a smart and well liked assistant coach.

The Garden continually proves itself to be a joke.

Give me a break. Assistants come and go. This guy is not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau. He will not impact us one way or not by leaving or staying. Dolan did him wrong, so be it, best of luck in ATL.

How do you know he's not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau?

Did you think Van Gundy was gonna be good? Did you know anything about Thibodeau?

Giving away coaches you've developed is just as dumb as giving away draft picks or players you've developed.

When this team is 43-39 and an underachieving, aging 7th seed in two years and you look around and wonder where the young players are and what happened I will feel sorry for you. jk.

For real, you're really arguing the merits of an assistant coach that catches shooters rebounds???

What does this have to do with the Knicks success? I don't see the point, I really don't.

I was dying to get Tom Thibodeau, when the Knicks signed D'Antoni instead, based on Tom being the defensive architect of the Boston title team, and also because of Tom's past ties with NY. I don't think a rebound catcher had that much input into the Knicks huddle at all the past couple years.

You have to start somewhere. Identifying Coaching talent starts early too you know. Thibs wasn't always as widely known as he eventually became. You knew who Thibs was because he had gotten notoriety. You don't know that Atkinson won't also eventually get to be a hot prospect like that. He's off to a good start so far.

Further you underestimate just what Atkinson does to say that he "catches Shooters rebounds". What kind of ignorant statement is that?

Kenny was brought in because of his resume as a player development guy that knew the style that fit MDA's approach:

“I would say my formation as a coach is more from an international standpoint,” says Kenny. “That’s where I learned to coach, and there’s a big emphasis on skill work and shooting; an up-tempo and open style that’s predicated on good skills.”

Atkinson, 43, joined the Knicks staff on Aug. 6, 2008 and brought a strong background in the international game, player development and scouting to New York. The Long Island native is in his fourth overall NBA season. In 2007-08, he served as Director of Player Development for the Houston Rockets.

Atkinson’s NBA career follows an overseas odyssey in which he became a student of the international game. Kenny joined the Rockets in 2007 following three years as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the Paris Basket Racing Club in France (2004-06). He has served as a Reebok EuroCamp Coach in Treviso, Italy during the summers of 2005 through 2010. He spent the summer of 2006 as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the national team of the Republic of Georgia. In summer 2009, he participated in the NBA’s Basketball Without Borders trip to Mexico City.

So for those that wonder why he was singled out for this article as a D'Antoni guy there you go. He was a coach that could teach the Euro style which fit right into what MDA wanted his players to learn. It would seem that he has no real role with Woodson's team given the style he will emphasize.

Are guys really upset that Kenny Atkinson is leaving the Knicks? Non-story, filler for the slow summer.

Next thing you know we'll be eulogizing the ball boy or sweat sweeper because they changed career paths.

This quite interesting. your taking a "non story" and making it into a legitimate issue to which you are trying to debate.

So its not the fact Atkinson is leaving but the fact that you think debating his leaving is more important than him actually leaving.

Debating him leaving, bon voyage Kenny! Let's debate the next assistant of an assistant that takes a dump in the woods without toilet paper!

All I'm saying is, it's surprising he stuck here that long, considering he was a D'Antoni guy. I thought he would have left the second Dirty Dan and Phil Weber packed their luggage too. Consider it a blessing for him, he stuck around to see the 1st Knicks playoff victory minus MDA. Losing Kenny Atkinson is a mere footnote for August 6th, 2012, nothing more. His presence will not be missed.

Seems like an organizational talent who tried to leave but Dolan would not let him.

I think when we read this guys cred and was not promoted to get on the bench because Dolan did not like him, and at the same time would not release him from his contract it speaks to what top down approach we have.

The results are all there in black and white since Dolan took over. Don't matter what anyone thinks, its the wins and losses.

So basically once Dolan had the good sense to hire Walsh, who bought in MDA and together needed two years to clean up the Isiah mess and accumulate some youth Dolan in one trade wipes out the youth momentum and over pays for a player that really does not blend in with his other superstar, and basically kicks the cane out from Walsh who leaves, then proceeds to build with a coach whose very strenth relies on a certain type PT guard, and finally when he gets the very PT guard by the grace of god instead of playing to his strenght he continues to build around a marketable star player.

Im ok with Melo and have moved on but we talking about the past and the past is our record under this shyt for brains owner.

Why is it a guy like Larry brown can have some success in San Antonio and lay the ground work for a culture of winning that lasts nearly 20 years? Greg Popovich was a "Larry Brown Guy". In that time how many coaches we grind up and spit out? An front office invironment where Dolan attacts talent by over paying them so they tolerate an evironment of supressoinion and petty rage vs. a culuture of winning where good people who are deserving of promotion are not allowed to leave? How many people have come from Dean smith-Larry Brown-Greg Popovich-Sam Presti connection?

Its never an issue for some when talent leaves because its not a Starphuck kind of thing.

So are we keeping Herb under wraps or is the guy just loyal and gets to stay on?

Good basketball people make good basketball things happen. Maybe Linsanity nevers happens with this guy? Maybe it does anyway.

we don't know. And if you don't know, then it don't matter does it?

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Kenny Who? Seems like a nice guy, but don't we have enough assistant coaches already? Herb's still around I think. Is that the guy that catches the rebounds of the shooters then passes it back to them? Irrelevant, we won't even hear a peep about Kenny Atkinson until we face Atlanta.

This is a pretty lame response.

He was a smart and well liked assistant coach.

The Garden continually proves itself to be a joke.

Give me a break. Assistants come and go. This guy is not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau. He will not impact us one way or not by leaving or staying. Dolan did him wrong, so be it, best of luck in ATL.

How do you know he's not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau?

Did you think Van Gundy was gonna be good? Did you know anything about Thibodeau?

Giving away coaches you've developed is just as dumb as giving away draft picks or players you've developed.

When this team is 43-39 and an underachieving, aging 7th seed in two years and you look around and wonder where the young players are and what happened I will feel sorry for you. jk.

For real, you're really arguing the merits of an assistant coach that catches shooters rebounds???

What does this have to do with the Knicks success? I don't see the point, I really don't.

I was dying to get Tom Thibodeau, when the Knicks signed D'Antoni instead, based on Tom being the defensive architect of the Boston title team, and also because of Tom's past ties with NY. I don't think a rebound catcher had that much input into the Knicks huddle at all the past couple years.

You have to start somewhere. Identifying Coaching talent starts early too you know. Thibs wasn't always as widely known as he eventually became. You knew who Thibs was because he had gotten notoriety. You don't know that Atkinson won't also eventually get to be a hot prospect like that. He's off to a good start so far.

Further you underestimate just what Atkinson does to say that he "catches Shooters rebounds". What kind of ignorant statement is that?

Kenny was brought in because of his resume as a player development guy that knew the style that fit MDA's approach:

“I would say my formation as a coach is more from an international standpoint,” says Kenny. “That’s where I learned to coach, and there’s a big emphasis on skill work and shooting; an up-tempo and open style that’s predicated on good skills.”

Atkinson, 43, joined the Knicks staff on Aug. 6, 2008 and brought a strong background in the international game, player development and scouting to New York. The Long Island native is in his fourth overall NBA season. In 2007-08, he served as Director of Player Development for the Houston Rockets.

Atkinson’s NBA career follows an overseas odyssey in which he became a student of the international game. Kenny joined the Rockets in 2007 following three years as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the Paris Basket Racing Club in France (2004-06). He has served as a Reebok EuroCamp Coach in Treviso, Italy during the summers of 2005 through 2010. He spent the summer of 2006 as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the national team of the Republic of Georgia. In summer 2009, he participated in the NBA’s Basketball Without Borders trip to Mexico City.

So for those that wonder why he was singled out for this article as a D'Antoni guy there you go. He was a coach that could teach the Euro style which fit right into what MDA wanted his players to learn. It would seem that he has no real role with Woodson's team given the style he will emphasize.

Are guys really upset that Kenny Atkinson is leaving the Knicks? Non-story, filler for the slow summer.

Next thing you know we'll be eulogizing the ball boy or sweat sweeper because they changed career paths.

This quite interesting. your taking a "non story" and making it into a legitimate issue to which you are trying to debate.

So its not the fact Atkinson is leaving but the fact that you think debating his leaving is more important than him actually leaving.

Debating him leaving, bon voyage Kenny! Let's debate the next assistant of an assistant that takes a dump in the woods without toilet paper!

All I'm saying is, it's surprising he stuck here that long, considering he was a D'Antoni guy. I thought he would have left the second Dirty Dan and Phil Weber packed their luggage too. Consider it a blessing for him, he stuck around to see the 1st Knicks playoff victory minus MDA. Losing Kenny Atkinson is a mere footnote for August 6th, 2012, nothing more. His presence will not be missed.

Seems like an organizational talent who tried to leave but Dolan would not let him.

I think when we read this guys cred and was not promoted to get on the bench because Dolan did not like him, and at the same time would not release him from his contract it speaks to what top down approach we have.

The results are all there in black and white since Dolan took over. Don't matter what anyone thinks, its the wins and losses.

So basically once Dolan had the good sense to hire Walsh, who bought in MDA and together needed two years to clean up the Isiah mess and accumulate some youth Dolan in one trade wipes out the youth momentum and over pays for a player that really does not blend in with his other superstar, and basically kicks the cane out from Walsh who leaves, then proceeds to build with a coach whose very strenth relies on a certain type PT guard, and finally when he gets the very PT guard by the grace of god instead of playing to his strenght he continues to build around a marketable star player.

Im ok with Melo and have moved on but we talking about the past and the past is our record under this shyt for brains owner.

Why is it a guy like Larry brown can have some success in San Antonio and lay the ground work for a culture of winning that lasts nearly 20 years? Greg Popovich was a "Larry Brown Guy". In that time how many coaches we grind up and spit out? An front office invironment where Dolan attacts talent by over paying them so they tolerate an evironment of supressoinion and petty rage vs. a culuture of winning where good people who are deserving of promotion are not allowed to leave? How many people have come from Dean smith-Larry Brown-Greg Popovich-Sam Presti connection?

Its never an issue for some when talent leaves because its not a Starphuck kind of thing.

So are we keeping Herb under wraps or is the guy just loyal and gets to stay on?

Good basketball people make good basketball things happen. Maybe Linsanity nevers happens with this guy? Maybe it does anyway.

we don't know. And if you don't know, then it don't matter does it?

Guess Herb is one of those guys that's liked by everyone alike, from our Shyt for brains owner all the way down to the janitor.

He's a good company guy, doesn't rock the boat, but at the same time connects with the players and possesses alot of basketball wisdom.

He started as an Knicks assistant in 2001 man, that is a long time.

Kenny Atkinson came aboard when D'Antoni did. So far his only claim to coaching fame is working with Lin. D'Antoni gone, Lin gone, it's a pretty forgone conclusion he wouldn't be back. Thought it'd be earlier when MDA bounced.

Nalod wrote:

Several years earlier, Dolan wanted Atkinson removed from the coaching staff because he believed he was talking to the media. However, former Knicks president Donnie Walsh insisted that Atkinson stay. Atkinson was barred from speaking to certain reporters.

Two years later, Dolan would not allow Atkinson out of his contract to the join the Portland Trail Blazers.

Atkinson is seen a head coaching prospect in the mold of two former Knicks assistant coaches; Jeff Van Gundy and Tom Thibodeau. Woodson will now have to find a player development coach with the energy and dedication Atkinson gave the organization.

Thought it'd be earlier when MDA bounced.

You really thought about him earlier?

Thought it'd be a clean house, sure. Woody was bringing his dudes in, Darrell Walker and Jim Todd, thought for sure all of the holdovers would follow D'Antoni's lead. MDA's brother and Phil Weber left, thought he was part of the Seven Seconds or Less entourage.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Several years earlier, Dolan wanted Atkinson removed from the coaching staff because he believed he was talking to the media. However, former Knicks president Donnie Walsh insisted that Atkinson stay. Atkinson was barred from speaking to certain reporters.

Two years later, Dolan would not allow Atkinson out of his contract to the join the Portland Trail Blazers.

Atkinson is seen a head coaching prospect in the mold of two former Knicks assistant coaches; Jeff Van Gundy and Tom Thibodeau. Woodson will now have to find a player development coach with the energy and dedication Atkinson gave the organization.

Thought it'd be earlier when MDA bounced.

You really thought about him earlier?

Thought it'd be a clean house, sure. Woody was bringing his dudes in, Darrell Walker and Jim Todd, thought for sure all of the holdovers would follow D'Antoni's lead. MDA's brother and Phil Weber left, thought he was part of the Seven Seconds or Less entourage.

The guys that left were the guys that came with mike from Phoenix. Atkinson came from Houston and herb was already with the Knicks. Atkinson appears to be well thought of in nba circles. If he leaves it is probably to improve his chance of becoming a head coach. I don't think anything diabolical is going on. Just a career move. Remember the source.

i wasnt a MDA fan...i think he was a great offensive mind but his defense was always behind...i DONT believe that it was due to him not "believing" in playing D..or not even practicing D...i just believe that his philosophy of offense was based on increasing the number of possessions with an uptempo pace...the problem is, the OTHER team also had more possessions...and during MDA's stay, the OTHER team was more talented..and therefore the OTHER team would score more points...

now is woody some magical coach?!!? NO...i simply think he SLOWS down the game..but most of all, the players LOOK UP TO HIM and RESPECT HIM!...for that reason alone i think hes an upgrade...my opinion of MDA is that he had this out-of-the-box offensive philosophy that was fun to watch (but only fits with certain players)...hes a great offensive coordinator

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Kenny Who? Seems like a nice guy, but don't we have enough assistant coaches already? Herb's still around I think. Is that the guy that catches the rebounds of the shooters then passes it back to them? Irrelevant, we won't even hear a peep about Kenny Atkinson until we face Atlanta.

This is a pretty lame response.

He was a smart and well liked assistant coach.

The Garden continually proves itself to be a joke.

Give me a break. Assistants come and go. This guy is not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau. He will not impact us one way or not by leaving or staying. Dolan did him wrong, so be it, best of luck in ATL.

How do you know he's not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau?

Did you think Van Gundy was gonna be good? Did you know anything about Thibodeau?

Giving away coaches you've developed is just as dumb as giving away draft picks or players you've developed.

When this team is 43-39 and an underachieving, aging 7th seed in two years and you look around and wonder where the young players are and what happened I will feel sorry for you. jk.

For real, you're really arguing the merits of an assistant coach that catches shooters rebounds???

What does this have to do with the Knicks success? I don't see the point, I really don't.

I was dying to get Tom Thibodeau, when the Knicks signed D'Antoni instead, based on Tom being the defensive architect of the Boston title team, and also because of Tom's past ties with NY. I don't think a rebound catcher had that much input into the Knicks huddle at all the past couple years.

You have to start somewhere. Identifying Coaching talent starts early too you know. Thibs wasn't always as widely known as he eventually became. You knew who Thibs was because he had gotten notoriety. You don't know that Atkinson won't also eventually get to be a hot prospect like that. He's off to a good start so far.

Further you underestimate just what Atkinson does to say that he "catches Shooters rebounds". What kind of ignorant statement is that?

Kenny was brought in because of his resume as a player development guy that knew the style that fit MDA's approach:

“I would say my formation as a coach is more from an international standpoint,” says Kenny. “That’s where I learned to coach, and there’s a big emphasis on skill work and shooting; an up-tempo and open style that’s predicated on good skills.”

Atkinson, 43, joined the Knicks staff on Aug. 6, 2008 and brought a strong background in the international game, player development and scouting to New York. The Long Island native is in his fourth overall NBA season. In 2007-08, he served as Director of Player Development for the Houston Rockets.

Atkinson’s NBA career follows an overseas odyssey in which he became a student of the international game. Kenny joined the Rockets in 2007 following three years as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the Paris Basket Racing Club in France (2004-06). He has served as a Reebok EuroCamp Coach in Treviso, Italy during the summers of 2005 through 2010. He spent the summer of 2006 as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the national team of the Republic of Georgia. In summer 2009, he participated in the NBA’s Basketball Without Borders trip to Mexico City.

So for those that wonder why he was singled out for this article as a D'Antoni guy there you go. He was a coach that could teach the Euro style which fit right into what MDA wanted his players to learn. It would seem that he has no real role with Woodson's team given the style he will emphasize.

Are guys really upset that Kenny Atkinson is leaving the Knicks? Non-story, filler for the slow summer.

Next thing you know we'll be eulogizing the ball boy or sweat sweeper because they changed career paths.

This quite interesting. your taking a "non story" and making it into a legitimate issue to which you are trying to debate.

So its not the fact Atkinson is leaving but the fact that you think debating his leaving is more important than him actually leaving.

Actually, I believe he is saying that the OP, who is you, is taking a non-story and making it into a legitimate issue by creating a thread on Kenny Atkinson (who 90 percent of Knicks fans probably didn't even know existed). This is more on Woodson. If he wanted to retain Atkinson and thought him valuable, he would have fought to keep him. To make this a statement on Dolan's ineptitude is really a stretch. Assistant coaches change teams all the time, to say he is the one that got away to further some twisted point is laughable.....both for Isola and your OP. If one day Atkinson proves to be a brilliant basketball mind and rises to a successful level in the NBA head coaching ranks, then you will have a point and we will eat crow. Until that time, LOL.

foosballnick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Kenny Who? Seems like a nice guy, but don't we have enough assistant coaches already? Herb's still around I think. Is that the guy that catches the rebounds of the shooters then passes it back to them? Irrelevant, we won't even hear a peep about Kenny Atkinson until we face Atlanta.

This is a pretty lame response.

He was a smart and well liked assistant coach.

The Garden continually proves itself to be a joke.

Give me a break. Assistants come and go. This guy is not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau. He will not impact us one way or not by leaving or staying. Dolan did him wrong, so be it, best of luck in ATL.

How do you know he's not the next Van Gundy or Thibodeau?

Did you think Van Gundy was gonna be good? Did you know anything about Thibodeau?

Giving away coaches you've developed is just as dumb as giving away draft picks or players you've developed.

When this team is 43-39 and an underachieving, aging 7th seed in two years and you look around and wonder where the young players are and what happened I will feel sorry for you. jk.

For real, you're really arguing the merits of an assistant coach that catches shooters rebounds???

What does this have to do with the Knicks success? I don't see the point, I really don't.

I was dying to get Tom Thibodeau, when the Knicks signed D'Antoni instead, based on Tom being the defensive architect of the Boston title team, and also because of Tom's past ties with NY. I don't think a rebound catcher had that much input into the Knicks huddle at all the past couple years.

You have to start somewhere. Identifying Coaching talent starts early too you know. Thibs wasn't always as widely known as he eventually became. You knew who Thibs was because he had gotten notoriety. You don't know that Atkinson won't also eventually get to be a hot prospect like that. He's off to a good start so far.

Further you underestimate just what Atkinson does to say that he "catches Shooters rebounds". What kind of ignorant statement is that?

Kenny was brought in because of his resume as a player development guy that knew the style that fit MDA's approach:

“I would say my formation as a coach is more from an international standpoint,” says Kenny. “That’s where I learned to coach, and there’s a big emphasis on skill work and shooting; an up-tempo and open style that’s predicated on good skills.”

Atkinson, 43, joined the Knicks staff on Aug. 6, 2008 and brought a strong background in the international game, player development and scouting to New York. The Long Island native is in his fourth overall NBA season. In 2007-08, he served as Director of Player Development for the Houston Rockets.

Atkinson’s NBA career follows an overseas odyssey in which he became a student of the international game. Kenny joined the Rockets in 2007 following three years as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the Paris Basket Racing Club in France (2004-06). He has served as a Reebok EuroCamp Coach in Treviso, Italy during the summers of 2005 through 2010. He spent the summer of 2006 as Director of Player Development/assistant coach for the national team of the Republic of Georgia. In summer 2009, he participated in the NBA’s Basketball Without Borders trip to Mexico City.

So for those that wonder why he was singled out for this article as a D'Antoni guy there you go. He was a coach that could teach the Euro style which fit right into what MDA wanted his players to learn. It would seem that he has no real role with Woodson's team given the style he will emphasize.

Are guys really upset that Kenny Atkinson is leaving the Knicks? Non-story, filler for the slow summer.

Next thing you know we'll be eulogizing the ball boy or sweat sweeper because they changed career paths.

This quite interesting. your taking a "non story" and making it into a legitimate issue to which you are trying to debate.

So its not the fact Atkinson is leaving but the fact that you think debating his leaving is more important than him actually leaving.

Actually, I believe he is saying that the OP, who is you, is taking a non-story and making it into a legitimate issue by creating a thread on Kenny Atkinson (who 90 percent of Knicks fans probably didn't even know existed). This is more on Woodson. If he wanted to retain Atkinson and thought him valuable, he would have fought to keep him. To make this a statement on Dolan's ineptitude is really a stretch. Assistant coaches change teams all the time, to say he is the one that got away to further some twisted point is laughable.....both for Isola and your OP. If one day Atkinson proves to be a brilliant basketball mind and rises to a successful level in the NBA head coaching ranks, then you will have a point and we will eat crow. Until that time, LOL.

Exactly, thought I was the one going crazy around here. Assistant coaches get shuffled around constantly in every sport, not just the NBA. This is par for the course. Atkinson didn't have a role here, hit the road jack.

I was unaware he blocked this guy from leaving. I was unaware he wanted him gone for "talking to the press". In a way talking to the press is to enhance the fan's knowledge of the team. His controling "who talks" is kind of old.

So Dolan in a fit wants him gone but also blocks the guy from getting a promotion to portland.

Woodson has no freaking juice card. I would think Woodson is a little castrated after running around hyping Linn as his starting PG and flying out in a paparazzi (who calls them btw?} media stunt only to have Dolan look stupid and petty.

Why? Cuz I think they messed up with Linn. I don't blame Lin for taking the contract but Knicks should have had this guy signed and sealed or signed and traded. We got no value in return.

No value. Thats a mistake.

Yeah, Im a dolan hater. Cuz I love the Knicks.

This is not about Kenny Atkinson, its about how the team is run and that trickles down. It has for years.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:
Him leaving is not the issue.

I was unaware he blocked this guy from leaving. I was unaware he wanted him gone for "talking to the press". In a way talking to the press is to enhance the fan's knowledge of the team. His controling "who talks" is kind of old.

So Dolan in a fit wants him gone but also blocks the guy from getting a promotion to portland.

Woodson has no freaking juice card. I would think Woodson is a little castrated after running around hyping Linn as his starting PG and flying out in a paparazzi (who calls them btw?} media stunt only to have Dolan look stupid and petty.

Why? Cuz I think they messed up with Linn. I don't blame Lin for taking the contract but Knicks should have had this guy signed and sealed or signed and traded. We got no value in return.

No value. Thats a mistake.

Yeah, Im a dolan hater. Cuz I love the Knicks.

This is not about Kenny Atkinson, its about how the team is run and that trickles down. It has for years.

You're reaching for straws now Nalod. Let it go already, sheesh.

First Walsh, then D'Antoni, then Lin, now Atkinson...

Enough already, you guys are embarassing yourselves for letting these moves get to you this way. You know the type of owner we have, deal with it already.

I'm more concerned with the product that's going out there on the floor in November, not those departed.

Then let it go.......If you wish to challange my thread thats cool, but if I wish to discuss this that is my choice.

ANd if there conversation dies, then its over.

but if you wish to belabor my point as being not important then I disagree.

The teams record speaks for itself. Good teams start at the top with a strong management core. How you make decisions dictates the product on the floor.

Our record speaks for itself.

If you don't want to take about the orgnaization make up of the team and why having a reputation of an owner who installs gag orders and goes no petty rages then don't. Hit the Ignore button.