blkexec wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Im starting to wonder if this Lin situation will take the fun and excitement out of what seems to be a promising 2012-2013 season. I know its still a recent issue and some fans are mad, but do we really have to keep dissecting every single aspect of the Lin decision? People have pretty much stated where they stand on this and its probable that those who hate management for the decision will still hate them and those who defend the decision will still do it.

I really hope next season isn't overshadowed by this because we might have the strongest Knicks team we've had in more than a decade.

I think no matter how well the team plays (and I do think we will have a GREAT team) the Lin thing will hang over our heads. A lot depends on how he plays in Houston. I think he clearly puts up better numbers there than he would here (due to no Melo, Stat, etc.) and it's going to be tough in that regard.

The thing that will go down as "The night NY Died, Part II", will be if we have one serious injury to Stat or Melo - Our season will be finished. Remember, Stat is coming off of two years of back injuries. We won't hear the end of it, and to be honest, I will be one of those pointing it out. But I am rooting for the team regardless. Still, Lin was an insurance policy and then some, that paid for itself mind you.

I just think the Lin thing was personal and not financial and that our best chance of winning a championship is to have 3 players of Stat, Melo and Lins caliber. Now we have two, if one goes down, we have one. Miami has three of those players, one in Lebron that almost is like have two great players. And they are a great defensive team, it will be interesting to see how we play against them now in a 7 game series. We just don't have the speed from the PG position - both defending and scoring the ball. And we don't really have anyone outside of Melo that is up there (and consistent - JR can do it here and there.)

I think Lin will always put up better numbers....You usually do that each year, if you work on your craft as a young NBA player. What does that have to do with winning a championship right now? Stats means nothing without a ring. Lin's best chance of winning a ring was with NY. And that would've been from the bench, cheering on Kidd (with a 25 million dollar chant) in the 4th quarter. But that boat has sailed off now and he's not thinking about winning a championship for us NY fans....He's thinking about himself, going from sleeping on the couch to buying a large brick home, with his NEW MONEY HUNGRY agent and that 25 million dollar pay raise and huge playing time so he can continue to fill up his stats and tear his other knee.

He even said it himself...Linsanity started to get to his head. He had different priorities with his own personal career branding, holding hands with Tebow, spreading love and happiness (James Brown). We need players focused on winning a championship, not individual accolades. Lebron and company took a pay cut to win a championship, not to increase their branding....

What happened the last time Lin played heavy minutes under Dantoni? Beware of Linsanity's health, and stability, playing 40 minutes a game, with a target on your back, and old knick fans waiting and media waiting for him to fail.... He's no longer a sleeper or that Lin guy that almost got cut. He's paid like an NBA starter. Solid players will destroy Lin, similar to what Deron Williams did. Average to below average players will use Lin to prove that they belong in the NBA, even at half the price of Lin's contract. He will get muscled in the post and abused on those hard drives in the paint. Unless people are saying hes the next Alan Iverson (which I hope not)....He's not built for the slashing game, against NBA bigs all season, playing 40 minutes a game on a team with no talent.

I can't wait til mid season. I'm just going to sit back and watch all these Lin lovers reverse everything they are saying right now. Lin doesn't have super human powers people. This is not some super hero movie. He's a decent combo guard / tweener (not even a pg) with a great skill at getting to the basket. Other than that, he's just a great story, and a great person. I really don't understand all the hype. And maybe because I've played with and against guards all the time with talent similar and better than Lin. Melo is the same way....If we missed on adding Melo, most people would be all over Dolan, just like the Lin issue, including me. Once you become a knick, you are family in my eyes. Everybody else are enemies! If you're a real Knick fan, you understand.

I agree that stats mean nothing and it is about winning a championship ultimately. I've actually said that regarding Lin before.

We never made him an offer. Do you understand that? We should have made him the max we could 6X4 for 24 million. But our camp was talking about 15 million an article stated. (over 3 years). We didn't want him. The fans just liked Lin more than Melo and Woodson and Dolan. I think they feared that, really. Who runs the team, Lin or the others?

I don't see liking him as being a "Lin Lover". I mean, that trivializes what he did and makes people who admire his talent more like cheerleaders and blind followers. I am not a blind follower of Lin nor the Knicks. Hence, me liking the team but also speaking out against letting him walk. We need not all be grouped into one camp or another - too much like politics.

Tell me, what is the difference between being a "real American" and a "real Knick fan"? Must you follow blindly with both? Look what that did to the Germans. Always, always, things should be about truth and not blind following, which is very very dangerous. You can't compartmentalize truth to only "important" issues.

Lin wasn't just a great story, he was arguably the best story (of it's kind) in the history of the NBA, which gets back to my statement of who is running things.

I can't wait to the playoffs, forget mid-season. That is when it will really matter for this team. If Lin has a better year than our PG's AND we don't win a championship... oh boy...

Knicksfan wrote:Im starting to wonder if this Lin situation will take the fun and excitement out of what seems to be a promising 2012-2013 season. I know its still a recent issue and some fans are mad, but do we really have to keep dissecting every single aspect of the Lin decision? People have pretty much stated where they stand on this and its probable that those who hate management for the decision will still hate them and those who defend the decision will still do it.

I really hope next season isn't overshadowed by this because we might have the strongest Knicks team we've had in more than a decade.

This is about trust. Simple fact is Linsanity was the most exciting story of last year. You can dissect his contract BS all day, but he's a good kid. What did he say in EVERY interview? That he has to work harder, losses were on him, wins were on the rest of the team. We had a 21 year old PG prospect with real court vision and the ability to rally his teammates and tangibly make other players around him better, and all it would have cost the Knicks was money.

People get tired of being lied to and crapped on. The only player on this team you can trust will have any future here is Melo. What else could any fan desire? Nug fans are so glad to be past him. I hope he succeeds here but there is zero reason to trust this management. Winning basketball games is not a priority. Tough to get behind that

misterearl wrote:Post Of The Month (must read)

blkexec wrote:
I think Lin will always put up better numbers....You usually do that each year, if you work on your craft as a young NBA player. What does that have to do with winning a championship right now? Stats means nothing without a ring. Lin's best chance of winning a ring was with NY. And that would've been from the bench, cheering on Kidd (with a 25 million dollar chant) in the 4th quarter. But that boat has sailed off now and he's not thinking about winning a championship for us NY fans....He's thinking about himself, going from sleeping on the couch to buying a large brick home, with his NEW MONEY HUNGRY agent and that 25 million dollar pay raise and huge playing time so he can continue to fill up his stats and tear his other knee.

He even said it himself...Linsanity started to get to his head. He had different priorities with his own personal career branding, holding hands with Tebow, spreading love and happiness (James Brown). We need players focused on winning a championship, not individual accolades. Lebron and company took a pay cut to win a championship, not to increase their branding....

What happened the last time Lin played heavy minutes under Dantoni? Beware of Linsanity's health, and stability, playing 40 minutes a game, with a target on your back, and old knick fans waiting and media waiting for him to fail.... He's no longer a sleeper or that Lin guy that almost got cut. He's paid like an NBA starter. Solid players will destroy Lin, similar to what Deron Williams did. Average to below average players will use Lin to prove that they belong in the NBA, even at half the price of Lin's contract. He will get muscled in the post and abused on those hard drives in the paint. Unless people are saying hes the next Alan Iverson (which I hope not)....He's not built for the slashing game, against NBA bigs all season, playing 40 minutes a game on a team with no talent.

I can't wait til mid season. I'm just going to sit back and watch all these Lin lovers reverse everything they are saying right now. Lin doesn't have super human powers people. This is not some super hero movie. He's a decent combo guard / tweener (not even a pg) with a great skill at getting to the basket. Other than that, he's just a great story, and a great person. I really don't understand all the hype. And maybe because I've played with and against guards all the time with talent similar and better than Lin. Melo is the same way....If we missed on adding Melo, most people would be all over Dolan, just like the Lin issue, including me. Once you become a knick, you are family in my eyes. Everybody else are enemies! If you're a real Knick fan, you understand.

Love This Line

Once you become a knick, you are family in my eyes. Everybody else are enemies! If you're a real Knick fan, you understand.

Roll out the ball racks and let's get this party started

Define "real Knick fan" please. Seems like any dissent is frowned upon, and I frown upon that.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:if you think that Jeremy Lin is worth a max year, you're nuts. If you think that the Knicks wouldn't be able to get someone as good or better than him because of the cap, well that's another story altogether

What do you mean by worth? I think he already brought in enough money to be worth a 1 year max contract financially.

I could care else about marketing. I'm sorry, a piece of a lockout shortened season while he still hasn't proven that he had a left hand or can control the turnovers does not justify a one year max deal

I don't think that we care about marketing and such. The point is, Lin would pay for his salary AND the teams salary cap tax. Why let that go?
It is estimated he brought in another 10-20 MILLION from his limited time last year.

He showed he could go left quite well. Like most players he has a better side. He improved a lot over the season going left as well as with his TO's. When you watched the games, his TO's were mostly due to handling the ball so much and being aggressive. TO's happen. Some great great PG's average around 4 per game. Lin was down to 5 and yet he was the center of attention for defenses. To state things so one sidedly makes this such a divisive discussion and avoids what we saw and his overall game.

Regardless of his play, we should not be bringing up that we couldn't afford to keep him as he paid for himself and then some.

Not bringing back Lin was personal and about "control",so to speak, of the team.

earthmansurfer wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:if you think that Jeremy Lin is worth a max year, you're nuts. If you think that the Knicks wouldn't be able to get someone as good or better than him because of the cap, well that's another story altogether

What do you mean by worth? I think he already brought in enough money to be worth a 1 year max contract financially.

I could care else about marketing. I'm sorry, a piece of a lockout shortened season while he still hasn't proven that he had a left hand or can control the turnovers does not justify a one year max deal

I don't think that we care about marketing and such. The point is, Lin would pay for his salary AND the teams salary cap tax. Why let that go?
It is estimated he brought in another 10-20 MILLION from his limited time last year.

He showed he could go left quite well. Like most players he has a better side. He improved a lot over the season going left as well as with his TO's. When you watched the games, his TO's were mostly due to handling the ball so much and being aggressive. TO's happen. Some great great PG's average around 4 per game. Lin was down to 5 and yet he was the center of attention for defenses. To state things so one sidedly makes this such a divisive discussion and avoids what we saw and his overall game.

Regardless of his play, we should not be bringing up that we couldn't afford to keep him as he paid for himself and then some.

Not bringing back Lin was personal and about "control",so to speak, of the team.

If it were my team and money, I would have matched and traded him in the first or second year of the deal. This of course assumes the lockerroom wanted him there. Which of course isn't completely guaranteed consider he gave up when it mattered most

earthmansurfer wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:if you think that Jeremy Lin is worth a max year, you're nuts. If you think that the Knicks wouldn't be able to get someone as good or better than him because of the cap, well that's another story altogether

What do you mean by worth? I think he already brought in enough money to be worth a 1 year max contract financially.

I could care else about marketing. I'm sorry, a piece of a lockout shortened season while he still hasn't proven that he had a left hand or can control the turnovers does not justify a one year max deal

I don't think that we care about marketing and such. The point is, Lin would pay for his salary AND the teams salary cap tax. Why let that go?
It is estimated he brought in another 10-20 MILLION from his limited time last year.

He showed he could go left quite well. Like most players he has a better side. He improved a lot over the season going left as well as with his TO's. When you watched the games, his TO's were mostly due to handling the ball so much and being aggressive. TO's happen. Some great great PG's average around 4 per game. Lin was down to 5 and yet he was the center of attention for defenses. To state things so one sidedly makes this such a divisive discussion and avoids what we saw and his overall game.

Regardless of his play, we should not be bringing up that we couldn't afford to keep him as he paid for himself and then some.

Not bringing back Lin was personal and about "control",so to speak, of the team.

If it were my team and money, I would have matched and traded him in the first or second year of the deal. This of course assumes the lockerroom wanted him there. Which of course isn't completely guaranteed consider he gave up when it mattered most

I only would have traded him if I thought it would help the team (this is a business). Maybe we could trade him, or Stat, etc. to get us the best team. As we both agree on (I think), we lost a valuable piece regarding that. I don't think the locker was against him. Sure there may be some jealous people there but I don't think they hated on Lin for things Lin did. They probably just thought he was getting too much attention, too much money, etc. You can't really hate the person for things beyond him.

definitely... I think the team loved him over the course of the season. You saw how Chandler responded to him. Novak got paid because of him. But this offseason probably changed some of their opinions of him. I own a Lin jersey but feel a lot differently now than then.

and I don't mean trade Lin just to trade him. But I think there would be a lot of value to trading him someplace where they need to sell tickets... I mean, I'm no Tyreke Evans fan but I think Lin for Evans might interest a crap team that struggles to sell seats. A trade like that

SupremeCommander wrote:Boon, I'd love to hear why Lin deserves max money and why Melo doesn't. This should be good

earthmansurfer wrote:

blkexec wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

misterearl wrote:Post Of The Month (must read)

blkexec wrote:
I think Lin will always put up better numbers....You usually do that each year, if you work on your craft as a young NBA player. What does that have to do with winning a championship right now? Stats means nothing without a ring. Lin's best chance of winning a ring was with NY. And that would've been from the bench, cheering on Kidd (with a 25 million dollar chant) in the 4th quarter. But that boat has sailed off now and he's not thinking about winning a championship for us NY fans....He's thinking about himself, going from sleeping on the couch to buying a large brick home, with his NEW MONEY HUNGRY agent and that 25 million dollar pay raise and huge playing time so he can continue to fill up his stats and tear his other knee.

He even said it himself...Linsanity started to get to his head. He had different priorities with his own personal career branding, holding hands with Tebow, spreading love and happiness (James Brown). We need players focused on winning a championship, not individual accolades. Lebron and company took a pay cut to win a championship, not to increase their branding....

What happened the last time Lin played heavy minutes under Dantoni? Beware of Linsanity's health, and stability, playing 40 minutes a game, with a target on your back, and old knick fans waiting and media waiting for him to fail.... He's no longer a sleeper or that Lin guy that almost got cut. He's paid like an NBA starter. Solid players will destroy Lin, similar to what Deron Williams did. Average to below average players will use Lin to prove that they belong in the NBA, even at half the price of Lin's contract. He will get muscled in the post and abused on those hard drives in the paint. Unless people are saying hes the next Alan Iverson (which I hope not)....He's not built for the slashing game, against NBA bigs all season, playing 40 minutes a game on a team with no talent.

I can't wait til mid season. I'm just going to sit back and watch all these Lin lovers reverse everything they are saying right now. Lin doesn't have super human powers people. This is not some super hero movie. He's a decent combo guard / tweener (not even a pg) with a great skill at getting to the basket. Other than that, he's just a great story, and a great person. I really don't understand all the hype. And maybe because I've played with and against guards all the time with talent similar and better than Lin. Melo is the same way....If we missed on adding Melo, most people would be all over Dolan, just like the Lin issue, including me. Once you become a knick, you are family in my eyes. Everybody else are enemies! If you're a real Knick fan, you understand.

Love This Line

Once you become a knick, you are family in my eyes. Everybody else are enemies! If you're a real Knick fan, you understand.

Roll out the ball racks and let's get this party started

Define "real Knick fan" please. Seems like any dissent is frowned upon, and I frown upon that.

Real Knick fans bleed orange and blue....We don't jump in and out of the ship, with these periodic feel good / feel bad stories. We don't waiver with the wind of the media or mis-handling Linsanity or giving Eddie Curry millions just to eat himeself out of a career. Real Knick fans represent the thick skin needed to survive in NYC. Real Knick fans are stronger than that, and their love for the team runs deeper than last years feel good story or the dislike of Knicks Ownership.

Well, help me out here. I loved Lin but hated Curry. Sounds like you hated Curry as well. But it is ok for you to express that, but not ok for fans unhappy with how the team is run to express their discontent for letting Lin walk? It sounds like you just don't want to hear what you don't want to hear.

Who is jumping in and out? Again, if one can't express displeasure, then we are in dangerous waters. I'm not joking here. You can't have one area of your life "die hard" and then another area "intelligent". It doesn't work that way. I try to bring intelligence to all areas equally (I mean ok, sport is emotional and such, but overall.)

Periodic good feel stories? Lin was probably the greatest story of it's kind in the history of the NBA. Periodic? LOL

Thick skin? Sounds like acceptance of being insensitive. Again, I'll go with intelligence.

Real Knicks fans are just real human beings. To try to define yourself separately, with words like "thick skinned, bleeding Knicks colors, not jumping ship, etc." that just sounds like an excuse to act in a certain way and then be proud of it. Again, that sounds dangerous.

Yeah thanks blkexec. Guess you're more "real" than I because you don't complain about James Dolan or wonder why the Knicks are such a poorly run franchise. Guess someone "real" just grins and takes it. Sorry sir! Didn't mean to have an opinion con-trary to yours sir!

Ima just go right here and watch me some Carmelo Anthony. Who is not universally considered a selfish ballhog and instead I will just accept Jeremy Lin wasn't the best story that happened to the Knicks in a decade, and we let him go because our owner has too much of an ego to let basketball people make basketball decisions. And PLEASE stop with the money or talent talk.

Jeremy Lin did more for this team than Shandon Anderson, Jerome James and Eddy Curry did over their contracts. And they got PAID. This guy contributed, was young, had potential, but didn't fit in Lil' Jimmy Dolan's plans. Sorry if pointing out truths hurts being "real".