KnicksFE wrote:While I agree with you that the Knicks are putting together a decent team, I also wonder who the third scoring option on this team will be? And yes, Lin left the Knicks but that’s because he never received an actual offer from this team, what was he supposed to do? Play for free.

I hear ya & respectively so

But I'm missing something here please help me. In the FA process or 'Right to ' market yourself the Knicks have a rep. for stifling players and keeping secrets
They allow Mr Lin to use a process in place to go & venture out which was an expressed interest not just by Rockets sending out news to Lin Agent of interests but
also by Jeremey himself ? Correct

Now if you get an initial offer sheet ? correct ? arent the Knicks suppose to receive this paper/document?
OR can Knicks Offer when already an offet agreement setup done bu Houston/Lin Agent ? prior to 1st date of July 11 legal signings officially for FA in nba

From news media and my poor understanding (forgive me) Rockets didnt have to send a sheet til July 11 ? Correct ? And Houston didnt give Knicks any legal docs at Jul.11
Could knicks made offer despite waiting for paperwork ?
Answer that please ?

When Knicks seek doc, they got all they got was a screwy revise sneak attach Version doc. which Grunwald did bad job of avoiding ?
I did not get impression the 1st time at July 11 when Knicks didnt have anything to 'Counter-offer' that NY/Brass Grunwald Or his boss wasnt ready to match
and if they did match COULD knicks make counter-match with $$$ Revisions themselves ?

Answer that one?

I know Knicks did somethings not good but
are knicks only guilty party here ?

This all seems like WWE Cm PUNK sneak attach on 'Rock' and 'Cena ' other night when no one saw the HEEL coming from PUNK a wrestler

So where does Rockets or Lin/Agent have any blames in this ? I do not understand how you keep a competitor more /most informed like Rockets was
and Knicks were expecting same communications back from Lin /Agent and the media didnt ever say Knicks got that communications fairly from Lin.

You'd think Mr Lin and his agent worked for Rockets/GM instead of while he was employed still by Dolan/Knicks

Something dirty about how it all went down
It amounted to cash but at a $$$Cost & Luxury tax records that was gonna be set by the knicks in NBA for this deal

Why is that not important to Lin/Agent ?

Coulda been avoided but NY isnt only sole guilty party

Bonn1997 wrote:

earthmansurfer wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Lin is better off being on the Rockets anyway. There's nothing great about working for Dolan and he doesn't need to spend his prime years sharing the ball with Melo. He's much more likely to blossom in Houston. It's a short contract and either Houston will build a good team or he'll be in a position to get a good contract on the team of his choice after 3 years.

Better off regarding his individual Stats, but more than Likely he is going to want to win a ring, and I doubt they can do that there anytime soon. Yeah, he will blossom there, but to me this is a team game (ok, ironic considering Melo is a bit too ISO at times, but getting better there.)

Houston basically owns Lin now, just as we did. Lin will be restricted in 3 years, they will have the right to match. I mean, how much more can anyone offer Lin than the Max, which is essentially what Houston offered Lin in year 3 of that contract. Unfortunately, we won't be seeing any more of Lin in NY.

If he wants a ring, neither organization would have been a smart choice.

At some point in his career, I’m sure Lin would like to compete for a championship, however, every one realize (including Lin) that he is not ready yet, so improving his basketball skill should be his main priority now and he will have more opportunities to do that over there. And yes it’s unfortunate that we won’t be seeing more Lin, but WE CAN’T FAULT the guy, he never had an offer and the choice to comeback to NY.

DJMUSIC wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:While I agree with you that the Knicks are putting together a decent team, I also wonder who the third scoring option on this team will be? And yes, Lin left the Knicks but that’s because he never received an actual offer from this team, what was he supposed to do? Play for free.

I hear ya & respectively so

But I'm missing something here please help me. In the FA process or 'Right to ' market yourself the Knicks have a rep. for stifling players and keeping secrets
They allow Mr Lin to use a process in place to go & venture out which was an expressed interest not just by Rockets sending out news to Lin Agent of interests but
also by Jeremey himself ? Correct

Now if you get an initial offer sheet ? correct ? arent the Knicks suppose to receive this paper/document?OR can Knicks Offer when already an offet agreement setup done bu Houston/Lin Agent ? prior to 1st date of July 11 legal signings officially for FA in nba

From news media and my poor understanding (forgive me) Rockets didnt have to send a sheet til July 11 ? Correct ? And Houston didnt give Knicks any legal docs at Jul.11
Could knicks made offer despite waiting for paperwork ?
Answer that please ?
When Knicks seek doc, they got all they got was a screwy revise sneak attach Version doc. which Grunwald did bad job of avoiding ?
I did not get impression the 1st time at July 11 when Knicks didnt have anything to 'Counter-offer' that NY/Brass Grunwald Or his boss wasnt ready to match
and if they did match COULD knicks make counter-match with $$$ Revisions themselves ?
Answer that one?

I know Knicks did somethings not good but
are knicks only guilty party here ?

This all seems like WWE Cm PUNK sneak attach on 'Rock' and 'Cena ' other night when no one saw the HEEL coming from PUNK a wrestler

So where does Rockets or Lin/Agent have any blames in this ? I do not understand how you keep a competitor more /most informed like Rockets was
and Knicks were expecting same communications back from Lin /Agent and the media didnt ever say Knicks got that communications fairly from Lin.
You'd think Mr Lin and his agent worked for Rockets/GM instead of while he was employed still by Dolan/Knicks

Something dirty about how it all went down
It amounted to cash but at a $$$Cost & Luxury tax records that was gonna be set by the knicks in NBA for this deal Why is that not important to Lin/Agent ?

Coulda been avoided but NY isnt only sole guilty party

Now if you get an initial offer sheet ? correct ? arent the Knicks suppose to receive this paper/document?
No, the initial offer was actually a verbal agreement between Lin and the Rockets to sign the offer sheet on July 11th; it was not an official document at that point, both parties had to wait for the specific date before signing it.

Could knicks made offer despite waiting for paperwork ?
Answer that please ?
Yes, the Knicks could have made an offer to Lin (even a low one) at any time after July 1st; at that point they still owned his early bird rights.

I did not get impression the 1st time at July 11 when Knicks didnt have anything to 'Counter-offer' that NY/Brass Grunwald Or his boss wasnt ready to match and if they did match COULD knicks make counter-match with $$$ Revisions themselves ?
I’m not sure I fully understand this question, but you don’t counter-match in the NBA, since the Knicks only received one official document from the Rockets on July 11t, they had three days to either match it or don’t.

So where does Rockets or Lin/Agent have any blames in this ? I do not understand how you keep a competitor more /most informed like Rockets was and Knicks were expecting same communications back from Lin /Agent and the media didnt ever say Knicks got that communications fairly from Lin.
You'd think Mr Lin and his agent worked for Rockets/GM instead of while he was employed still by Dolan/Knicks
I definitely don’t blame Lin or his agent for signing the offer sheet from the Rockets, is not like Lin had several others waiting for him, he was presented with one offer ONLY and he signed it. As far as communication, the Knicks could have shown more interest in keeping the guy also; instead they were busy looking for his replacement (Steve Nash) from day one, and later signing three other point guards.

Something dirty about how it all went down It amounted to cash but at a $$$Cost & Luxury tax records that was gonna be set by the knicks in NBA for this deal Why is that not important to Lin/Agent ? Coulda been avoided but NY isnt only sole guilty party
Personally, I don’t think it amounted to cash and luxury tax cost for the Knicks; they were willing to pay 36 million (plus tax penalties) for Steve Nash on a 3 year contract, also Felton, Kidd, Novak and Camby will be making around 15 million combine three years from now, how much Tax do you think Dolan will pay for them?

If the Knicks TRULY wanted Lin, they should have taken care of him first, and fill out the team with 1 year contract players, this way avoiding a huge tax penalty on year 3 of Lin’s contract, may be they still had to pay some, but definitely that the huge amount that was rumored. Instead, the Knicks used their remaining cap space on several veteran players, leaving no cap space for Lin and using this poison pill as an excuse for not signing the guy when in fact they could have avoided it from day one.
Just my two cents.

DJMUSIC wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:While I agree with you that the Knicks are putting together a decent team, I also wonder who the third scoring option on this team will be? And yes, Lin left the Knicks but that’s because he never received an actual offer from this team, what was he supposed to do? Play for free.

I hear ya & respectively so

But I'm missing something here please help me. In the FA process or 'Right to ' market yourself the Knicks have a rep. for stifling players and keeping secrets
They allow Mr Lin to use a process in place to go & venture out which was an expressed interest not just by Rockets sending out news to Lin Agent of interests but
also by Jeremey himself ? Correct

Now if you get an initial offer sheet ? correct ? arent the Knicks suppose to receive this paper/document?OR can Knicks Offer when already an offet agreement setup done bu Houston/Lin Agent ? prior to 1st date of July 11 legal signings officially for FA in nba

From news media and my poor understanding (forgive me) Rockets didnt have to send a sheet til July 11 ? Correct ? And Houston didnt give Knicks any legal docs at Jul.11
Could knicks made offer despite waiting for paperwork ?
Answer that please ?
When Knicks seek doc, they got all they got was a screwy revise sneak attach Version doc. which Grunwald did bad job of avoiding ?
I did not get impression the 1st time at July 11 when Knicks didnt have anything to 'Counter-offer' that NY/Brass Grunwald Or his boss wasnt ready to match
and if they did match COULD knicks make counter-match with $$$ Revisions themselves ?
Answer that one?

I know Knicks did somethings not good but
are knicks only guilty party here ?

This all seems like WWE Cm PUNK sneak attach on 'Rock' and 'Cena ' other night when no one saw the HEEL coming from PUNK a wrestler

So where does Rockets or Lin/Agent have any blames in this ? I do not understand how you keep a competitor more /most informed like Rockets was
and Knicks were expecting same communications back from Lin /Agent and the media didnt ever say Knicks got that communications fairly from Lin.
You'd think Mr Lin and his agent worked for Rockets/GM instead of while he was employed still by Dolan/Knicks

Something dirty about how it all went down
It amounted to cash but at a $$$Cost & Luxury tax records that was gonna be set by the knicks in NBA for this deal Why is that not important to Lin/Agent ?

Coulda been avoided but NY isnt only sole guilty party

Now if you get an initial offer sheet ? correct ? arent the Knicks suppose to receive this paper/document?
No, the initial offer was actually a verbal agreement between Lin and the Rockets to sign the offer sheet on July 11th; it was not an official document at that point, both parties had to wait for the specific date before signing it.

Could knicks made offer despite waiting for paperwork ?
Answer that please ?
Yes, the Knicks could have made an offer to Lin (even a low one) at any time after July 1st; at that point they still owned his early bird rights.

I did not get impression the 1st time at July 11 when Knicks didnt have anything to 'Counter-offer' that NY/Brass Grunwald Or his boss wasnt ready to match and if they did match COULD knicks make counter-match with $$$ Revisions themselves ?
I’m not sure I fully understand this question, but you don’t counter-match in the NBA, since the Knicks only received one official document from the Rockets on July 11t, they had three days to either match it or don’t.

So where does Rockets or Lin/Agent have any blames in this ? I do not understand how you keep a competitor more /most informed like Rockets was and Knicks were expecting same communications back from Lin /Agent and the media didnt ever say Knicks got that communications fairly from Lin.
You'd think Mr Lin and his agent worked for Rockets/GM instead of while he was employed still by Dolan/Knicks
I definitely don’t blame Lin or his agent for signing the offer sheet from the Rockets, is not like Lin had several others waiting for him, he was presented with one offer ONLY and he signed it. As far as communication, the Knicks could have shown more interest in keeping the guy also; instead they were busy looking for his replacement (Steve Nash) from day one, and later signing three other point guards.

Something dirty about how it all went down It amounted to cash but at a $$$Cost & Luxury tax records that was gonna be set by the knicks in NBA for this deal Why is that not important to Lin/Agent ? Coulda been avoided but NY isnt only sole guilty party
Personally, I don’t think it amounted to cash and luxury tax cost for the Knicks; they were willing to pay 36 million (plus tax penalties) for Steve Nash on a 3 year contract, also Felton, Kidd, Novak and Camby will be making around 15 million combine three years from now, how much Tax do you think Dolan will pay for them?

If the Knicks TRULY wanted Lin, they should have taken care of him first, and fill out the team with 1 year contract players, this way avoiding a huge tax penalty on year 3 of Lin’s contract, may be they still had to pay some, but definitely that the huge amount that was rumored. Instead, the Knicks used their remaining cap space on several veteran players, leaving no cap space for Lin and using this poison pill as an excuse for not signing the guy when in fact they could have avoided it from day one.
Just my two cents.

From your writings and defend of Jeremy Lin '1' NY Knicks '0'
You're acting like Lin is Chris Paul and/or Deron Williams ..& Sh_t

even the old Steve Nash how dare you so early in 25 gms ? Mention Nash in same breath of conversations of J.Lin being a PG
Knicks could had but should pay prices > $$$$$ likes of others at his position ?

I dont get it

You got to explain that to me, NO ONE wanted to see Lin go
but to place Knicks pockets & offers and ALL knicks could do this and that and this and that isnt ALL about 1 person whom
isnt a superstar or got there yet.

Knicks did the share, give them some fault
But to act like J.Lin did all 150% right and he wanted NY and Fans wanted him and
Knicks should have paid him anything > market millions is absurd.

That is negotiation process its used by all
As NY was trying to backups and PGs and others in to BACKUP Lin, there was no question Knicks didnt have a top tier PG
starter based on age and proceedings of FA, especially PGs

If you loved Lin go on, I like him as a Player too!
but Knickerbockers are more than Just J.Lin and not going about improving team to get better for season
which is what their intents was AS MUCH as bringing J.Lin back.

1 guy
25 games
don't make a big impact to me by putting himself over anything else.

If Lin really really wanted to come back he'd not get the Agent he got,
to further his exit outta of NY.

GM Rockets got more respect and some say so over Jeremy Lin than Knicks had the opportunity to do.

Jeremey Lin used the Knicks as much as any FA/NBA stars or superstars done in FA prior years visits to Knicks for offers.
That aint fiction, that's fact

As a free agent with NO CONTRACT ATTACH to any team, what was Jeremy Lin supposed to do? Wait for the Knicks to sign 4 point guards?
And I’m not comparing hall of fame Nash to Lin, I’ll never do that, but this just show that the Knicks had other priorities and Lin wasn’t one of them, SORRY BUT I CAN”T FAULT THE GUY FOR NOT WAITING ANYMORE.

toodarkmark wrote:James Dolan is a joke of an owner. It's clownish to defend someone who made an emerging star player a promise, broke it, and then does everything to get the media to spin it in his direction.

Someone who has done everything in their power for 12 years to ruin a team that meant so much to so many. Lin was forced out. Say all you want, but the facts are out there. Defend all you want, but Dolan would have paid Lin anything he wanted if Lin had just accepted that no one in this town is bigger than Dolan.

I'd like to know who here believes that Dolan has been a good owner, or even a mediocre one? Doubt we will find anyone. Posters might disagree on individual moves but I'm positive that there isn't any daylight in how we all feel about what kind of an owner little jimmy has been.

toodarkmark wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

toodarkmark wrote:James Dolan is a joke of an owner. It's clownish to defend someone who made an emerging star player a promise, broke it, and then does everything to get the media to spin it in his direction.

Someone who has done everything in their power for 12 years to ruin a team that meant so much to so many. Lin was forced out. Say all you want, but the facts are out there. Defend all you want, but Dolan would have paid Lin anything he wanted if Lin had just accepted that no one in this town is bigger than Dolan.

I'd like to know who here believes that Dolan has been a good owner, or even a mediocre one? Doubt we will find anyone. Posters might disagree on individual moves but I'm positive that there isn't any daylight in how we all feel about what kind of an owner little jimmy has been.

I think a lot of people, in their "acceptance" of Lin not being re-signed, have been defending Dolan. If it comes out that Dolan made a promise then broke it, well obviously Lin and his people are lying. I can't say I didn't do the same.

It's just, being a Knicks fan is like dating a girl with a horrible parent. Yeah you love the girl, but damn their Moms just keeps ruining it. No matter what the Knicks do, James Dolan has his hand on it. And it's getting harder and harder for me to separate the Knicks from Dolan.

I think "defending" Dolan is a bit strong because it implies (to me) that people who see that there might be even a sliver of logic behind the move are rushing to his aid. Despite my little rant yesterday, I wanted Lin back. I was really looking forward to seeing Kidd help Lin become our PG of the future. What really turned me off to this whole sorry mess was the proposition that it was all the fault of one side. Without rehashing the particulars of what went down, I believe mistakes were made by both sides.

I can't blame you for seeing the Knicks and Dolan as being interchangeable. I felt exactly that way in the Isiah years. Not as much now maybe because I believe Grunwald is a much better GM in spite of Dolan's constant interference and we have a roster now which doesn't make most of us embarrassed to say that we're Knick fans. Mostly embarrassed that we have an overgrown child of an owner.

ChuckBuck wrote:Just because Dolan is the owner doesn't mean you have to support him or what he does. Just don't buy tickets, don't order Cablevision, don't buy anything related to the Garden. You still can support the team however. Raiders fan still supported their team even with Al Davis, Cowboys fans still support their team with Jerry Jones meddling, Clippers fans suffer miserably under Donald Sterling but somehow still exist. You think Twolves fans love King Kahn? They still cheer on Love and Rubio wholeheartedly. Hating Dolan as an owner is a poor excuse for hating your own team. Grunwald is no Isaiah and Woodson is no D'Antoni. Looks like the whole team from the front office to the coach to the players are on the same page. Let's give this team a chance, before we doom and gloom it.

I used to feel the same way Chuck. I really did. Banishing Ewing. Overpaying Houston. Trading Sprewell for Van Horn. Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisly. Banishing Marv Albert. The Media control. Don Chaney's firing. Cart blanche for Isiah. We have to take on Anfreenee Hardaway AND give up two first rounders? Jerome James? Why did we just draft Frye over Bynum? Maurice Taylor? STEVE FRANCIS? Why are we giving Eddy Curry 6 years? Fire Isiah showing up in a video game?

Then I thanked God Stern stepped in and gave us Walsh. But guesss whoooo got shown the doooor?

Oh and wait, finally a feel good story about the Knicks. Finally something not manufactured, bought,packaged. Nahhh.

I wasn't even a big Lin fan. But this is just... no longer about Lin, Chuck. This is an epiphany. A realization. And although I've been a Knicks fan since 1987, sometimes an owner CAN really make you question your fandom.

ChuckBuck wrote:Just because Dolan is the owner doesn't mean you have to support him or what he does. Just don't buy tickets, don't order Cablevision, don't buy anything related to the Garden. You still can support the team however. Raiders fan still supported their team even with Al Davis, Cowboys fans still support their team with Jerry Jones meddling, Clippers fans suffer miserably under Donald Sterling but somehow still exist. You think Twolves fans love King Kahn? They still cheer on Love and Rubio wholeheartedly. Hating Dolan as an owner is a poor excuse for hating your own team.

gunsnewing wrote:

toodarkmark wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Just because Dolan is the owner doesn't mean you have to support him or what he does. Just don't buy tickets, don't order Cablevision, don't buy anything related to the Garden. You still can support the team however. Raiders fan still supported their team even with Al Davis, Cowboys fans still support their team with Jerry Jones meddling, Clippers fans suffer miserably under Donald Sterling but somehow still exist. You think Twolves fans love King Kahn? They still cheer on Love and Rubio wholeheartedly. Hating Dolan as an owner is a poor excuse for hating your own team. Grunwald is no Isaiah and Woodson is no D'Antoni. Looks like the whole team from the front office to the coach to the players are on the same page. Let's give this team a chance, before we doom and gloom it.

I used to feel the same way Chuck. I really did. Banishing Ewing. Overpaying Houston. Trading Sprewell for Van Horn. Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisly. Banishing Marv Albert. The Media control. Don Chaney's firing. Cart blanche for Isiah. We have to take on Anfreenee Hardaway AND give up two first rounders? Jerome James? Why did we just draft Frye over Bynum? Maurice Taylor? STEVE FRANCIS? Why are we giving Eddy Curry 6 years? Fire Isiah showing up in a video game?

Then I thanked God Stern stepped in and gave us Walsh. But guesss whoooo got shown the doooor?

Oh and wait, finally a feel good story about the Knicks. Finally something not manufactured, bought,packaged. Nahhh.

I wasn't even a big Lin fan. But this is just... no longer about Lin, Chuck. This is an epiphany. A realization. And although I've been a Knicks fan since 1987, sometimes an owner CAN really make you question your fandom.

Wow great post . Summed up the Dolan era perfectly

ChuckBuck wrote:So the Grunwald Era is considered a failure already? You think Dolan would push out Grunwald and Woody, they have great synergy and toe the company line, yet still make sound basketball decisions. The Grunwald/Woody era just begun last year. If they have great success together, you think it's a forgone conclusion Dolan whacks both of them just like that?

Yes, if they interfere in Dolan’s agenda both will be gone, even if they are successful and have the support of the fans. Just look at Donnie Walsh, he cleared the big mess they Knicks were in for the past decade (under Dolan) and wasn’t brought back. Isiah Thomas created one of the most depressing eras in recent Knicks history and he still roaming the Garden as an unofficial consultant. Go figure that out.