IrishKnickFan wrote:hey i dont mind veterans in fact i was all for the kidd/camby moves but i think having some youth is important. Missing shump for the first half really stinks because my main worry is when we play the faster backcourt

Yeah that will be a weakness at times, but i'm not gonna say just yet that it's gonna be a major issue considering we're looking at mostly the same roster that won so many games after Lin went down. It's pretty much the same core group with a stronger bench. Especially once Shump is back. IMO Kidd and Felton is an upgrade over Baron and Bibby!!!

loweyecue wrote:Yeah they will do well in the regular season, then choke in the playoffs.

Or we will come out of the blocks slow and build cohesion by St Patrick's Day, just in time for Shump's return to the rotation.

We make a playoff run for the ages.

(Real Fan Alert: Note the use of "we" instead of "they")

VCoug wrote:We already were a good defensive team last year with Lin in the lineup. Lin is a much superior offensive player, with upside, while Felton is only an adequate defender. I'm also not seeing how all the pieces fit now, especially if Woodson does run a slowdown offense. Felton wasn't very good in Charlotte running the same offense and has been terrible for the last year and a half while Amare has yet to prove he can be effective in the halfcourt. We also didn't do anything about our poor outside shooting, so when teams collapse on Melo and Amare the only guy who can make the other team pay is Novak. Most importantly though, we've gotten much older and much less athletic this offseason and I don't see how that helps us beat Miami, OKC, LAC, or Indy. Those teams will be able to run us out of the building and we don't have the dominant rebounding it would take to slow them down.

Finally, I love those 90's Knicks teams as well; they gave ma a lot of great memories. Charles Oakley is still one of my favorite all-time Knicks, to the point that I believe we should retire his number. But, at the end of the day they never won a championship. And the number one reason we didn't isn't because our defense wasn't good enough but because Ewing never had enough help on the offensive end. I hope that we're not saying the same thing a few years from now.

Camby addition helps the rebounding a lot.

crzymdups wrote:The best defensive stretch this team has had since Jeff Van Gundy left was with Jeremy Lin starting and Melo and Amar'e sidelined. Held 9 straight teams to under 100 points which the Knicks hadn't done for 12 years.

This isn't the return of Old School Knicks, it's the return of Old Knicks, Marcus and Kurt. Which I guess takes away some of the pain of the impending first round loss.

Ha! 9 sh1tty teams - nice!!

nixluva wrote:With all of the pain from the Jeremy Lin Saga, Melo Haterz, Dolan Haterz etc, one thing seems to be getting lost on many NY Knick fans. This team has morphed into a retro version of a traditional NY Knicks tough defensive team. The roster is jam packed with players that have a TOUGH mentality and that is a great development when going up against a team like the Celtics or Heat. This team won't wilt like a delicate flower when playing the best teams in the league.

There are no kids on the team that haven't been thru some wars as even Shump has at least gone thru some tough situations and his dealing with a torn ACL counts as one of them. He'll be mentally toughened by the experience of rehabbing his knee. Also this team is returning a good amount of the core from last year.

Overall the team is bigger and deeper than last year and IMO that puts this team on an upper echelon in the league.
Don't focus so much on the age of some of the guys on the bench but rather the level of experience those players bring. Woody should be able to develop some really strong rotations with the mix of players he has and that will make everyone stronger and to remain fresher for the playoffs.

The other thing is that for the 1st time in years this team is all on the same page. Everyone fits the style. Most of the players are capable of playing halfcourt style BB. The PG's we have are well suited to that and that can help guys who haven't been most successful in a halfcourt. So now from the Coach thru to the last man on the roster everyone is on the same page.

Let's remember this team won with DEFENSE to close the season. That is the identity of this team now. Camby, Kidd, Felton and KT are all smart defensive players. They're all tough minded and won't back down from a challenge. Who knows what the offense will be like, but with this level of D this team should be able to win games even with a pedestrian offense. That's old school Knicks and this team has the best chance to go deep in the playoffs in more than a decade.

Let's try to embrace the return of Old School Knicks BB.

Yessir! I am ready and raring to root for this group! We have two of the players who ran all the way to the FInals with us in '99, and they, along with J-Kidd, will help this team get back to some of that classic Knicks solid D and gritty play on both ends of the floor.

I look forward to seeing Felton back, what he and Kidd will bring to the table @ the 1 spot.

Amar'e seems to be working hard on his fitness and his post game this summer, and Melo and Ty Chandler are getting their game on with Team USA.

I'm liking the bench so far, but we have a few more spots to fill.

GO, KNICKS!

nixluva wrote:Plain and simple this is a good team. Just how good depends on a lot of factors, but we do know that as long as you have Tyson and Camby, then you'll have a good defensive team. Anytime you can take away layups you will have a better shot to win games.

My fear is what kind of offense will Woody install and will that benefit more than just Melo. The issue we had last year was that the only player that thrived in a halfcourt ISO offense was Melo!!! Everyone else needed an uptempo, ball and player movement style in order to succeed. I was saying it for weeks before the playoffs when the team was winning but I could see a problem once we got in a matchup with the Heat. You can't run a simplistic ISO offense against the Heat defense.

We saw that Novak couldn't get off and other players couldn't get in a rhythm as well. Some will say we didn't have Lin so that was the issue, but it was more about the STYLE of play. The team did have success playing a spread offense with PnR and lots of off the ball movement. I posted screen shots of those plays and you can see why that style worked against good defenses. It forced the defense to cover more ground and give help thus creating holes to exploit. What will Woody's offense actually look like?

Felton really only thrives in an uptempo offense, so i'm dubious about his success in a slow it down ISO offense. Does Woody know that Felton is not good at Ground n Pound halfcourt offense? Felton has gone on record as admitting that he prefers to run and struggles in the slow it down style. This is my only real concern. How will Woody do at his one weak spot which has been creative offensive coaching. Can he come up with something that will enhance the entire roster? My thought is that the offense will not be very dynamic but that we'll win despite having a suspect offense. If the D is good enough, you'll get some easy baskets on the break off turnovers. You can play ball possession and keep the score down. That's what I think is most likely to happen.

Agree with most of your points except the one about Felton thriving in only an uptempo offense. Didn't Felton run a structured half court grind it out offense under the grindiest of halfcourt coaches in Larry Brown when they made the playoffs in Charlotte?

mrKnickShot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

nixluva wrote:Plain and simple this is a good team. Just how good depends on a lot of factors, but we do know that as long as you have Tyson and Camby, then you'll have a good defensive team. Anytime you can take away layups you will have a better shot to win games.

My fear is what kind of offense will Woody install and will that benefit more than just Melo. The issue we had last year was that the only player that thrived in a halfcourt ISO offense was Melo!!! Everyone else needed an uptempo, ball and player movement style in order to succeed. I was saying it for weeks before the playoffs when the team was winning but I could see a problem once we got in a matchup with the Heat. You can't run a simplistic ISO offense against the Heat defense.

We saw that Novak couldn't get off and other players couldn't get in a rhythm as well. Some will say we didn't have Lin so that was the issue, but it was more about the STYLE of play. The team did have success playing a spread offense with PnR and lots of off the ball movement. I posted screen shots of those plays and you can see why that style worked against good defenses. It forced the defense to cover more ground and give help thus creating holes to exploit. What will Woody's offense actually look like?

Felton really only thrives in an uptempo offense, so i'm dubious about his success in a slow it down ISO offense. Does Woody know that Felton is not good at Ground n Pound halfcourt offense? Felton has gone on record as admitting that he prefers to run and struggles in the slow it down style. This is my only real concern. How will Woody do at his one weak spot which has been creative offensive coaching. Can he come up with something that will enhance the entire roster? My thought is that the offense will not be very dynamic but that we'll win despite having a suspect offense. If the D is good enough, you'll get some easy baskets on the break off turnovers. You can play ball possession and keep the score down. That's what I think is most likely to happen.

Agree with most of your points except the one about Felton thriving in only an uptempo offense. Didn't Felton run a structured half court grind it out offense under the grindiest of halfcourt coaches in Larry Brown when they made the playoffs in Charlotte?

Larry Brown is an idiot.

Dam, I forgot we're on a Knicks forum.