martin wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:I dont care about youth as much as I care about assets, which we practically lost all in one move. Im into the Camby wagon, so no need to convince me on how nice this deal is. Im excited about having him back and about the defense we can get. I just hope we can keep finding unorthodox ways to get solid talent to the team as we have recently (Lin, Novak, Smith).

Right now all I care for is to sign a decent SG starter so we can keep J.R. where his impact is greater, on the bench. Since we moved from the Foye, Lee range, I wonder who that SG could be.

we have our first round pick next year and the Greeks kids coming over to backfill spots 10-15. What other assets do you need when you have Shump coming back?

This time next year these guys are under contract:

Tyson, Amare, Melo, Shump, Lin. Camby, Kidd, Novak, BirdRights to JR, 1st Round pick. That's 10. $3M cash and mini-MLE will be available 1 year from now.

This is what seems to be overlooked by many Knick Fans. This team is already pretty much SET. Most of what we'll be doing is tweaking around the margins. We're not looking to redo the core right now. Despite what it looked like last year against the Heat, this team isn't really that far off from contention. We had to upgrade the overall talent, capability and experience of the roster and so far Glen has been doing that. We still have the assets Martin mentioned above so this team will be just fine. PEOPLE STOP THINKING ABOUT REBUILDING WITH YOUTH! That's not where this team is. This is a right now team and the moves make sense in that reality.

martin wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:I dont care about youth as much as I care about assets, which we practically lost all in one move. Im into the Camby wagon, so no need to convince me on how nice this deal is. Im excited about having him back and about the defense we can get. I just hope we can keep finding unorthodox ways to get solid talent to the team as we have recently (Lin, Novak, Smith).

Right now all I care for is to sign a decent SG starter so we can keep J.R. where his impact is greater, on the bench. Since we moved from the Foye, Lee range, I wonder who that SG could be.

we have our first round pick next year and the Greeks kids coming over to backfill spots 10-15. What other assets do you need when you have Shump coming back?

This time next year these guys are under contract:

Tyson, Amare, Melo, Shump, Lin. Camby, Kidd, Novak, BirdRights to JR, 1st Round pick. That's 10. $3M cash and mini-MLE will be available 1 year from now.

Since we are paying for TD's contract in Houston, we have under 1m but more than 900k, to use THIS YEAR or up till the to buy a late 2nd rounder for the next draft.
Next year's draft, the talent is suppose to be "weak" like in 2000, when Kenyon Martin was drafted.
It doesn't mean that we cannot find a good late 2nd rounder but chances are that there will be more talented players that are currently NOT DRAFTED and more talented in this DEEP draft.

about the Euro picks, they would seek more than the veteran minimum, especially our 48th pick if he were to play next year. His buyout is more than what he would make under his salary.
So we would have to wait till his contract is over, or offer him at least part of our 3m mini MLE
I notice you also didn't put Jeffries down, but with Chandler and Camby, I am not sure if we want a injured prone player like JJ for long term when Camby has health issues himself at 40.

JJ is still a solid defender, now with a legit shot blocker to help him anchor the defense out.
When healthy, he is still a quality reserve, but he played many minutes for us at Center, and also has a weak offensive game with Chandler/Camby signed long term.
He IS NOT a stat player, a shot blocking presence, or good rounder, but he does many things that STATs do not account for.
If we have his early bird rights, *he joined us halfway in 2010 after buyout in Houston and played with us for 1.5m years*, would JJ demand a contract similar to Reggie Evan's for 3 years 5m?

Having key reserves is important, just like how Nick Collison and Corey Brewer, are important on their teams.
I just don't know if we would prefer JJ or Anthony Tolliver if we had to choose.
I would like to sign Tolliver to 2 years of veteran minimum contracts to get a his early bird rights, if he does well, give him a 2-3 year extension like Reggie Evans got.
Tolliver runs the floor well, can hit the 3point shot, rebounds the ball, and is a under rated rotation role player.
He has shown the ability to be productive and cost efficient, whenever he got minutes in GS and Twolves.
Capable of playing SF, PF, and some Center, he would be a key reserve player we should target with the Vet Min.
Whenever given 20+ minutes, he can can be a double double threat, with RBs and Points, and is a hustle player like Junkyard Dog that can hit the 3pointer.

Jmpasq wrote:The Heat were offering Norris Cole,Joel Anthony and Phillys First Round pick "which has a small chance of being a lottery pick" wasnt really crap and I bet most teams would rather have that deal

i stand corrected
u r right not really crap i
did not know cole was in the offer

OasisBU wrote:I seriously can't believe some people are crying over Jorts and some second round picks.

Jorts was never going to amount to anything here and probably will be out of the NBA within the next few years. Out roster can't handle the risk of second rounders at this point, we need talent who can contribute and add depth. For the next 2-3 years we are in win now mode plus we still have whatever first round picks we have not traded.

Get a grip - this was a good move for the franchise.

for now yes
but 2nd rnd, 1st rnd

The cap $$ and Luxury tax

YOU cant keep giving away drafts and not have any chips to use

I dont know about this board but whole nba uses drafts as assets except the NY knicks

Its fine to go win for now, all fans are thirsty

but u must keep up with having some drafts to work into your system and deals to be if needed.

The whole league is young

If anyone things Knicks or nba team is gonna build a championship run by dealing for 30+ yrs old as a 'roll of the dice'
it doesnt always work that way.

You got to mix young in with right chemistry. Many teams arent going to be able to duplicate Miami (Big 3) or Celtics (3 old)

Each has 1 NBA title in past 4 yrs and one of two (celtics) already rebuilding.

RonRon wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

OasisBU wrote:I seriously can't believe some people are crying over Jorts and some second round picks.

Jorts was never going to amount to anything here and probably will be out of the NBA within the next few years. Out roster can't handle the risk of second rounders at this point, we need talent who can contribute and add depth. For the next 2-3 years we are in win now mode plus we still have whatever first round picks we have not traded.

Get a grip - this was a good move for the franchise.

for now yes
but 2nd rnd, 1st rnd

The cap $$ and Luxury tax

YOU cant keep giving away drafts and not have any chips to use

I dont know about this board but whole nba uses drafts as assets except the NY knicks

Its fine to go win for now, all fans are thirsty

but u must keep up with having some drafts to work into your system and deals to be if needed.

The whole league is young

If anyone things Knicks or nba team is gonna build a championship run by dealing for 30+ yrs old as a 'roll of the dice'
it doesnt always work that way.

You got to mix young in with right chemistry. Many teams arent going to be able to duplicate Miami (Big 3) or Celtics (3 old)

Each has 1 NBA title in past 4 yrs and one of two (celtics) already rebuilding.

Agreed.

1) sends a bad message to rookies that we sign with the perception of FA's that we will DUMP YOU at all cost for 1 player, did it once with Melo, now for Camby, and will probably do it again in the near future, even if its we OVER PAY.

2) sends a bad message to the GM's in the rest of the League, that we will pay premium if we want to trade with you, giving you the upper hand/better side of the trade, if you play hard ball with us.

3) Hurts our future. Yes, we are in win now mode, but its like OKC trades their picks away for nothing, when they are stockpiled with youth already. We are the complete opposite, picks can be very useful but we constantly dump them for little no no value. You also help the league out by giving out the picks to rebuild faster with more assets to throw around for improvement. After 2016+, we probably won't even be contenders but will have 40 year vets that will retire and cannot be used with no trade value.

So short term, it works out, but it affects us long term in many ways, the league on bullying/trades with us, FA's/player drafted, and the perception of our organization in negative ways.
We can't always be willing to OVER PAY, it makes our look like idiots just like how we missed out on Aldridge, Noah, Gordon Hayword, this year's 2nd round pick from GS that could have been a SOLID rotation player with upside.... players that we could have drafted with GS 2nd rounder *predicted to be a high 2nd pick* like Draymond Green, Kim English, Doron Lamb, Quincy Acey, and many more if it is a deep draft.

correct precisely
look I may have overreacted a bit to the deal (two 2nd rnd picks) its the concept of picks going away again & in June drafts
we either have 1 first rnd pick (2013) or only a 2nd rnd pick (this 2012)

Cant see why fans dont see the Knicks do not engage in Draft research as rest of nba past 2 decades..
(see Norris cole picked by HEAT, draft., a champion with demand value)

Do anyone ever think that if you have teams in future whom want to talk deal with Knicks & those same teams may not be interested
then in mix of Knicks roster ? but want combo of a playa here or there & possible draft pick

If you dont have any picks to talk about, those Same NBA team will go to next org. for deal talks to improve their teams.

Many times Knicks left out in cold cause NO one on roster Knicks had was interesting to teams whether a contract or player.
If you got no picks OR players to talk deal, & you dont win a NBA title thus got to improve thru change you'd better figure
out what rest of league is doing OR you'll never win SH_***t.

meaning rest of teams that runs hoops business to win titles as MAVs, HEAT, ect. Early in 2000's the same for when LAL, SPURs,
PISTONs and CELTs all won with options they had to get pieces onto to their team to help them win eventually. A process which
needs to be mimicked and duplicated.

subzero0 wrote:I was very high on Josh Harrelson. I believe this was a bad move. Camby sprains his ankle down when the wind blows too hard outside. He crumbles to the floor and cringes in pain when someone stares at him sideways. Jorts was a talented young player and a good find in that draft. Bad move if you ask me.

Jorts can barely crack the second squad on a playoff bound team, Camby can solidify second team and be a stopper/minute earner in the last minutes of a game you are ahead in.

subzero0 wrote:I was very high on Josh Harrelson. I believe this was a bad move. Camby sprains his ankle down when the wind blows too hard outside. He crumbles to the floor and cringes in pain when someone stares at him sideways. Jorts was a talented young player and a good find in that draft. Bad move if you ask me.

We gave up a lot for a top backup center and I do believe we over payed for Camby but he fills a need on the DEF end.
He would allow us to have a shot blocker and rebounder for 48minutes, granted both Chandler/Camby are healthy.
Part of the reason why the Bulls have been a top defensive team the past couple years are because of Taj Gibson and Omar Osik's roles on the team as the anchors of the 2nd unit.
A reason why with multiple injuries, throughout the past 2 years, they have still been a top team in the East.

It would be perfect if we can add player like Gibson, Brandon Rush, Courney Lee, and Ariza's caliber with Chandler and Iman.

Jort's has future as a 3point shooter/banger but he will not be a defensive/shot blocking presence.

With his unique skill set, chances were that by next summer, a team will offer a Omar Osik type deal if Jort's shows any signs of being a promising player this year.