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Pathetic egos running NBA such as Riley, DWade can sway stars for own fame(s) & title thirst boasts
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RonRon
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7/8/2012  10:36 AM
I am not sure if it is Dolan or if Isiah is still giving him pointers.
But looking at many teams, we lack talent in many areas, it is poorly constructed like Briggs said, examples look at The Suns, Toronto, Twolves, Bucks if they resign Ilyasova...
Paying max to 2 forwards that cannot play good defense, handle the ball/facilitate, and penetrate off the dribble are bad combinations.
Look at their rosters, compare it back with ours right now, they are players that fit, and have a philosophy/system/roles with multi skills vs 1 dimensional players we have now.

Like the richest NBA owner, The Russian, he stays out of majority of the decisions, he lets his GM/President to their job, and he gets to decide how much he is willing to spend.
James Dolan is a control freak, unlike his new nemesis, The Russian, allows his employees to do their job.
If Dolan let Walsh finish his job, I am sure it would be a much better constructed team.
Amare would still be considered an All Star and have good value on the system/players we loss.
I think Donnie's plan was to get a premier PG, that is why he signed Felton to a 2 year deal, and that was the reason he signed Felton to only a 2 year deal.
As well as adding a center, in the following summer, and quality role players.

AUTOADVERT
RonRon
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7/8/2012  10:36 AM
We had players that finally fit, with many assets, cap space, Dantoni was able to effectively use Amare effectively, and players that understood the system.
They had chemistry, understood the philosophy, and an identity, something we haven't had since then.
Melo is a great player, not a knock on him, but anytime you trade 4 starters, future draft picks, and "STARPHUQ" the way we did, we need a TEAM PLAYER.
Adding a player like Andre Iguodala with a center from Dalembert, Chris Kaman, or Tyson Chandler would have been perfect.
Felton teamed up with Iman Shumpert, Wilson Chandler, Gallo, and any of these centers would make us a good defensive team and a good offensive team.

Walsh was very respected by our players, David Lee and Nate Robinson both stayed with his for 5 years, and helped us get back some assets with their trades.
He was able to get keep them off the market as RFA, and orchestrate a sign and trade.
He was honest, even though he knew Lee was not going to be part of the Knick's future, he tried to do what was best for The Knicks and Lee's career.
With Nate, he was sent to a Championship contending team, I am not sure if he has learn somethings there, because he has much improved since.

It's bad business, when we had all that youth that were cohesive, to trade for 1 player, it hurt "their feelings" and loss respect that Donnie restored to many bitter players that have left the organisation. With all these rumors, Fields/Jorts and whoever, will and should leave, the way they are thrown around in trade scenarios.
Even Iman Shumpert, there is bitterness with trading him, while he plays his heart out, and trade him for a 38 year old PG when we already have a PG of the future.
Having a respectful GM, with a good relationship/communication between the players, and coach is very important ingredient to have, it goes a long way.

Papabear
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7/8/2012  10:50 AM
Papabear Says

We are the most impatient team in the League. We betray our own and throw them under the bus.

Papabear
Bonn1997
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7/8/2012  11:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/8/2012  11:30 AM
foosballnick wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Would it have been better if Magic and Kareem never played together? Bird, Parish, & McHale?

I believe you are making his point for him. Those great teams were not put together through players conspiring.


Who cares about the method the players used for joining together? That has nothing to do with the product on the court. With talent now distributed among 30 teams, we'd probably never see another Magic/Kareem or BPM unless the players chose to team up or "conspired" as you put it.
blackisblack
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7/8/2012  11:10 AM
I have no problem with players leaving teams to go chase a ring or money, especially if they are being toyed with. The teams are not loyal to their players, the fans are not loyal to their players so why expect players to be loyal in return? You get what you put out. Simple as that.
Bonn1997
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7/8/2012  11:31 AM
blackisblack wrote:I have no problem with players leaving teams to go chase a ring or money, especially if they are being toyed with. The teams are not loyal to their players, the fans are not loyal to their players so why expect players to be loyal in return? You get what you put out. Simple as that.

+1 in general and +2 when they actually take a pay cut to do it.
newyorknewyork
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7/8/2012  11:42 AM
I did't have a problem with Bron, Wade & Bosh teaming up together or them recruiting Allen. The only thing that bugged me was there smug attitude. Lebron seems to have been humbled though.

NY could easily be a place where players conspired to play for. If we get cap space again in 2015/16 when Melo is 31 and Amare's contract expires.

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Bonn1997
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7/8/2012  11:47 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:I did't have a problem with Bron, Wade & Bosh teaming up together or them recruiting Allen. The only thing that bugged me was there smug attitude. Lebron seems to have been humbled though.

NY could easily be a place where players conspired to play for. If we get cap space again in 2015/16 when Melo is 31 and Amare's contract expires.


It makes it much easier if you already have a top 5 or at least 10 player like Miami already had Wade, though.
RonRon
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7/8/2012  11:59 AM
Lebron would have made Amare, Gallo, Wilson Chandler, and TD that much better.
I didn't like how he lead us on with Yankee's hats and going to their games.
Many people don't realize Walsh, drafted players with the intent of signing Amare/Bosh and Lebron/Wade or at least Joe Johnson.

Even Joe Johnson, as much as we hate his contract, if you added his skill/versatility, ability to handle the ball, facilitate, and shoot, he would have fitted much better than what we have today. During the time, I absolutely did not want Joe Johnson, but I realize now, that he would have made those players much better.
Not to mention, after Eddy Curry's expiring, the following summer, we can still add talent on top of it, with the MLE in the mix as well.
And Felton/Turiaf would have gave us some more cap relief after, while we still would have the amnesty.

Wilson Chandler/Gallo don't have to be extended, with Walsh staying and how he communicated with David Lee and Nate Robinson, I think they would have respected him and add let the Knicks have the ability to continue building a much better efficient team. None of those guys wanted to get traded, they liked NY.
We went from being a beat around time to being playoff contenders when we added Amare and Felton. They all worked very hard and finally improved and were part of the success.
Donnie Walsh treated his team, staff, and players right, while Dolan see's them as nothing but pawns.

newyorknewyork
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7/8/2012  12:09 PM
Melo's piers will view him as such though. He is a regular on the Olympic and Allstar squads, he has a prestige to him. Plus we would already have Tyson Chandler who brought up his prestige with the DPOY award, though he would be 34. You could always try to do it like Boston did and move the first rd pick for an established player if you got the cap space like they did for Ray Allen, and then use the remaining cap money to try and land another guy.

But hopefully we won't have the cap space because Lin and Shump turn into superstars.

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Bonn1997
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7/8/2012  12:34 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:Melo's piers will view him as such though. He is a regular on the Olympic and Allstar squads, he has a prestige to him. Plus we would already have Tyson Chandler who brought up his prestige with the DPOY award, though he would be 34. You could always try to do it like Boston did and move the first rd pick for an established player if you got the cap space like they did for Ray Allen, and then use the remaining cap money to try and land another guy.

But hopefully we won't have the cap space because Lin and Shump turn into superstars.


Wade had the cred. It comes from winning. Melo's team is .470 with him playing. He's gotta at least take the Knicks deep in the playoffs once first.
newyorknewyork
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7/8/2012  1:01 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Melo's piers will view him as such though. He is a regular on the Olympic and Allstar squads, he has a prestige to him. Plus we would already have Tyson Chandler who brought up his prestige with the DPOY award, though he would be 34. You could always try to do it like Boston did and move the first rd pick for an established player if you got the cap space like they did for Ray Allen, and then use the remaining cap money to try and land another guy.

But hopefully we won't have the cap space because Lin and Shump turn into superstars.


Wade had the cred. It comes from winning. Melo's team is .470 with him playing. He's gotta at least take the Knicks deep in the playoffs once first.

Wade, Lebron, and Bosh decided that they were going to play together in the NBA when they became friends with each other at the draft. Had nothing to do with them looking to ride Wade's championship experience. If Melo and Lebron didn't play the same position id bet that they would have looked to join forces yrs ago.

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DJMUSIC
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7/9/2012  12:11 AM
CashMoney wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Would it have been better if Magic and Kareem never played together? Bird, Parish, & McHale?

Hey, Magic & Kareem had Worthy too.

You dont know
but that text all aint the same regard.
Other than Big Chief Parish Bird and McHale were original draftees of Boston Celtics
same for Magic and James Worthy (original draftees)to Lakers whom had Kareem (Alcindor) in his decline yrs
a little bit before Magic and Worthy were part of Show-time Lakers

So I dont know what point of that is
Lakers players & Celtics players situation totally different from what I'm posted about

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DJMUSIC
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7/9/2012  12:28 AM
Nalod wrote:
DJMUSIC wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Seriously, what is the point of this thread?

whining we can't spend unlimited amounts of money?

When we could, we phucked it up big time.

The yankees had no limits in the 1980's and came up with nothing.

Nt until it build off its youthful core did it succeed. Jeter a rookie since 1995.

17 seasons since he broke in. THink of who the knicks were back than and all that (has not) transpired.

Ok, NBA has few 17 year runs with players but you get the jest.

What Miami did was legal and Riley played it perfectly.

Ray allen is not a star anymore. He is an old guy with a great cred. He could rejuvenate with Heat or keep breaking.

Knicks Lost lebron because the crazy media intensity and lack of a charismatic leader. Dolan is the leader. While Walsh was not on his game it was clear Dolan was the lead guy and true to form castrated Donnie at the first opportunity. Lebron made the right call as much as I hate to admit it. Knicks ownership is a joke.

I don't get the point of the thread.

Actually, I like seeing stars line up together. It's a work of beauty to see Lebron-Wade together at the top of their games. Maybe some day we'll have a competent owner who can get top 10 players in the league to want to team up for us.

<< .. top 10 players in the league to want to team up for us ...>>

*Thats the point of the thread boyz/men

There is a 12 man roster (1-2 adds) each team. You all want to claim its better to say do the math top 10? worst case say 4-6 guys
of half top 10 talent 41 % or best case 10/12 or nearly 83% of talent on a single contender team that is great I reckon for contender.

NBA egos/stars got phone books and power, agents to call each other and figure out how to use the system to play together
but if not go where they want.

I feel does game of NBA injustice. These players from #1 to lowly 12man on bench make nice living as millionaire where is the fairness ? in competition. And as much as I hate Dolan to his credit he does spend $$$ and 1/2 to 3/4 (75%).

More of these so call NBA superstars didnt want to ever come to NY Knicks & I aint talking about LBJ Either. Couldnt care
less for superstars whom want nothing to do with our city (cool, fine). Titles arent all about just bunched superstars anyhow.

Players scoffed NY and despite its owner's woes once a paycheck is written guys go for the $$$ money or go for their friends
and feats of a NBA Title.Good for Ray Allen, he has no $$ money needs in Miami nor he has no friends in DWade or LBJ but I'm
sure he wants that title again, feels Boston is worst choice.

Point of post is its fair & legal does it make it right ?

As far as Pat Riley using Wade to influence stars at all cost(no costs) to come & gratify the legend Riley and Miami to consider being with King James and DWade. Whom wouldnt want that right? Bosh felt likewise but good for Chris too a #1 on a bad Raptor team
so I'll cut Bosh alot of slack.

Is this all right ? Teams playing down to their contract term end to go to where the most stars are?

Dunno bout that.
I've never seen in no other sports but basketball that players/agents can control whom they go to & whom they play with as much
as recent NBA. I never remembered Frazier or Reed picking up phone to call Earl Monroe from Baltimore. Nor Bird calling the
chief Robert Parrish to get agent to move Robert to Celtics, Nor Hakeem prying Drexler to seek a trade to Rockets, Nor Duncan
calling anyone to win his 4 rings as did Kobe calling Steve Nash to cement Nash joining LA Lakers.

I aint hear a peep about Patrick Ewing, other than at end of Bull/Knicks wars after many Bull titles Ewing said only he wants to
beat MJ but also would play in chicago with MJ cause they were foes and friend. And that wasnt happening! (Ew in Chi-town)

The past nba isnt today's NBA.

To go on like its great for 25-35 of best elite NBA guys to get 2-4 together on a NBA contender team is absurd thought and
unfair to smaller market business teams & if it doesnt bother anyone else cool! We all have opinions.

It just isnt competitive anymore, when the process doent unfold naturally as opposed to what we witness today!
These movements should all be more or less not because of superstars doing GM' work or team presidents getting to chat
with bunch of NBA great players to convince all the Riley way is the way to his fortunes, NBA titles with the stars
irregardless of parity in the league. That's all I'm saying

Good take even if I don't agree with it all.

"We don't hear" don't mean it was not done. It was just not reported. Actually it may have been players were not going to tell the media and back in the day it was tampering. Why it is not I don't know.

Superstar one and done players don't build rivalries on their college teams. The love is build on regional AAU teams and all star teams in the summer begin these relationships. Olympic teams also bind these guys. A few weeks with guys culturally similar to you and makes 100 mil can be the ties that bind.

Ego and thirst to win I don't fault Riles to have. He ate a 15 win year to clear his roster to get a chance and was patient with his roster and this current coach.

I hate Riles BTW.

I hear what ya sayin' Nalod and
I also agree on Pat 'Rat' Riley

Though he and commish sterns the GM/prez of Heat are working in legal limits of all NBA league rules
what's the point ? of many good to great pending hall of fame players going public to figure out
1) What team is best or contends
2) which guys are stars whom want same thing to be with as much great great players to win
and dominate.

This all defeats may the best team wins
You dont have much of a chess game or strategy other than less 'starred' player teams & rosters trying to figure out
how to beat a team of several to more superstar driven teams.

Maybe in Hockey or MLB, NFL its not the same and you can have 1/2 dozen greatest players on a team to play for championship
however dynamics are different than on NBA pro teams.

Look I am a grudging grumpy knick fan with few stars on my team & very satisfied even if 1 of the stars had to be traded to
improve chances for championship contending.

I just do not believe in Basketball it should be so easy for players to fire a coach, have inputs on whom is off the team,
have right to their own contract premises, call the shots if they 'remain' with team demand star players be sought/bought
into structure. And if 1 star player isnt enough go back and have the BEST of BEST brought in.

It never was that way in the old days.
I dont see why this is so great to determine how great a team is when they win this way again or multiple times

This isnt much difference fro MLB guys shooting 'steroids' to get individual advantages or few become superstars such as
Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire or previously McGwire & Canseco on same Oak A's team slugging to stardom

Maybe in Basketball folks wont ever call it cheating (kind of a stretch and absurd) as in Baseball steroid edges are cheating

But in pro hoops I dont know how NBA can ever prevent good star players from going to elite teams OR poor teams not having
a chance to hold on to great players cause this NBA system allows for failures for the so so small market teams and easiest
success for teams like Miami Heat.

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DJMUSIC
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7/9/2012  12:31 AM
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We are the most impatient team in the League. We betray our own and throw them under the bus.

we are that way cause ownership and stock holders prefers $$$ MSG earning 1st, last and always
along with a 8th seed Knick playoff spot as opposed to investing in Knicks to win/compete for East Atl. division
dominance and their division titles.

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CrushAlot
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7/9/2012  12:39 AM
DJMUSIC wrote:
Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

We are the most impatient team in the League. We betray our own and throw them under the bus.

we are that way cause ownership and stock holders prefers $$$ MSG earning 1st, last and always
along with a 8th seed Knick playoff spot as opposed to investing in Knicks to win/compete for East Atl. division
dominance and their division titles.

I think there is a lot of impatience, impulsiveness, and reactive moves by some of the teams right now. The new CBA created a scenario where the strong get stronger. Guys are going to force the issue and go to the big cities and play with their super star friends. The lower echelon teams will benefit from the tax paid in but they won't be able to attract stars in my opinion. Reflecting on the current cba, the owners attempted to put controls in for themselves but they didn't work. Leagues with salary caps generally have big market teams that are successful. The OKC's are in the minority and I think that will stay that way.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Pathetic egos running NBA such as Riley, DWade can sway stars for own fame(s) & title thirst boasts

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