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JR Smith Opting Out but Intends to Stay
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callmened
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6/25/2012  6:53 PM
Im happy hes staying ...hes flashy exciting but an overall nutcase...but hesnour nutcase

And stop the march madness hes way better than fields

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
AUTOADVERT
MSG3
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6/25/2012  6:54 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:JR is all flash, no substance on offense and mediocre on defense unless it's a contract year. Fields is the better rebounder, passer, and more efficient scorer. Fields put up very good numbers even though no one cares. Per 36 min: 11.0 PPG on 46% shooting, 5.3 rbs as an SG, 3.2 assists, 1.9 TOs, and 1.5 stls.

JR has better numbers per 36. Way better actually. You can't look at the game just based on stats and sabermetrics though. Both Landry and JR do so much dumb crap during games it's mind boggling. On top of being a horrible shooter, Landrys brain farts happen on D. JR is closer to the stereotypes of Melo than Melo is. The classic black hole on offense. Has the ability to pass and create his own shot, but usually settles for bad jumpers. I really hate both of their games.
Mray20
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6/25/2012  6:59 PM
JR is a very good defender about 100 times better than Landry Fields on D not to mention ball handling and shooting
No layups!
Bonn1997
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6/25/2012  7:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/25/2012  7:07 PM
Mray20 wrote:JR is a very good defender about 100 times better than Landry Fields on D not to mention ball handling and shooting

You have not followed or even read about JR other than in half of this contract year.

JR has better numbers per 36. Way better actually.

Everything per 36 min is is similar or worse for JR other than shot attempts (which then inflates his points).

You can't look at the game just based on stats and sabermetrics though

Actually, the evidence is very clear that you can do just that and get a valid, accurate prediction of team wins. You should read about sabermetrics. My guess is you're expressing an opinion on its validity despite having read very little if any. Berri's books are a good introduction.
Mray20
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6/25/2012  7:12 PM
How about I have watched JR Smith his entire career and I've watched Landry for 2 seasons on the Knicks and I see that JR is just a better talent overall
Bonn1997 wrote:
Mray20 wrote:JR is a very good defender about 100 times better than Landry Fields on D not to mention ball handling and shooting

You have not followed or even read about JR other than in half of this contract year.

JR has better numbers per 36. Way better actually.

Everything per 36 min is is similar or worse for JR other than shot attempts (which then inflates his points).

You can't look at the game just based on stats and sabermetrics though

Actually, the evidence is very clear that you can do just that and get a valid, accurate prediction of team wins. You should read about sabermetrics. My guess is you're expressing an opinion on its validity despite having read very little if any. Berri's books are a good introduction.
No layups!
AnubisADL
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6/25/2012  7:12 PM
JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.
NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
IrishKnickFan
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6/25/2012  7:14 PM
AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
MSG3
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6/25/2012  7:14 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Mray20 wrote:JR is a very good defender about 100 times better than Landry Fields on D not to mention ball handling and shooting

You have not followed or even read about JR other than in half of this contract year.

JR has better numbers per 36. Way better actually.

Everything per 36 min is worse for JR other than shot attempts (which then inflates his points).

You can't look at the game just based on stats and sabermetrics though

Actually, the evidence is very clear that you can do just that and get a valid, accurate prediction of team wins. You should read about sabermetrics. My guess is you're expressing an opinion on its validity despite having read very little if any. Berri's books are a good introduction.

JRs per 36 are 18.6 PPg, 4.3 rebounds, 3 assist, 1.5 steals. Landrys rebounding is better. Other numbers are the same. So other than scoring their stats are similar.

I admittedly haven't studied up on saber metrics but do understand its value in predicting outcomes. But I think it's value (and correct me if im wrong) is most effective when looking at an entire teams roster rather than comparing 2 players to,each other. I think the eye test still has value also. Landry and JR have negative impact on games whether it's horrible/unreliable jump shooting, defense or shot selection.
Mray20
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6/25/2012  7:15 PM
AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.

Agree 100 percent, and anyone who thinks Fields is better than JR Smith doesn't like JR or doesn't know anything about the game of basketball period

No layups!
IrishKnickFan
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6/25/2012  7:18 PM
Mray20 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.

Agree 100 percent, and anyone who thinks Fields is better than JR Smith doesn't like JR or doesn't know anything about the game of basketball period

i think JR is better than fields but using the whole MLE on Smith is crazy
Mray20
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6/25/2012  7:19 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Mray20 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.

Agree 100 percent, and anyone who thinks Fields is better than JR Smith doesn't like JR or doesn't know anything about the game of basketball period

i think JR is better than fields but using the whole MLE on Smith is crazy

You can't use the full mid level I agree they might have to let him go if that's what he wants but I think he does have that kind of value on the open market
No layups!
IrishKnickFan
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6/25/2012  7:20 PM
Mray20 wrote:
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Mray20 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.

Agree 100 percent, and anyone who thinks Fields is better than JR Smith doesn't like JR or doesn't know anything about the game of basketball period

i think JR is better than fields but using the whole MLE on Smith is crazy

You can't use the full mid level I agree they might have to let him go if that's what he wants but I think he does have that kind of value on the open market
If he wants a raise to 2.8 million athst fine but other than that See Ya
Mray20
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6/25/2012  7:22 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Mray20 wrote:
IrishKnickFan wrote:
Mray20 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:JR Smith is worth 5-7 million a year. Especially as a 6th man.

Agree 100 percent, and anyone who thinks Fields is better than JR Smith doesn't like JR or doesn't know anything about the game of basketball period

i think JR is better than fields but using the whole MLE on Smith is crazy

You can't use the full mid level I agree they might have to let him go if that's what he wants but I think he does have that kind of value on the open market
If he wants a raise to 2.8 million athst fine but other than that See Ya

+1

No layups!
AnubisADL
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6/25/2012  7:28 PM
I think some people should look around the league at other SGs. JR Smith > Nick Young.
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BigRedDog
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6/25/2012  7:30 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:JR is all flash, no substance on offense and mediocre on defense unless it's a contract year. Fields is the better rebounder, passer, and more efficient scorer. Fields put up very good numbers even though no one cares. Per 36 min: 11.0 PPG on 46% shooting, 5.3 rbs as an SG, 3.2 assists, 1.9 TOs, and 1.5 stls. People devalue Fields because they overvalue flashiness and inflation of PPG via inefficient scoring.

No we devalue Fields because he can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet. Isn't a shooting guard supposed to be able to hit an outside shot? Bonn get your head out of stats and actually watch a game with your eyes.

fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
callmened
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6/25/2012  7:43 PM
Major ouch felt towards bonn...but i agree with the guys...jr is way better than fields...not only cant fields shoot...but he DOESNT shoot...hes a 6-5 jjeffries..and he doesnt evennplay defense that well

The ONLY reason i wont give up on him is cuz i think he and lin hv a connection. He can find fields for easy baskets...fields is an opportunistic player who scores on garbage pts..hopefully he learns how to shoot

Ironically if jr had learned how to shoot less or at least when to shoot then hed be an allstar...

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Bonn1997
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6/25/2012  7:46 PM
BigRedDog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:JR is all flash, no substance on offense and mediocre on defense unless it's a contract year. Fields is the better rebounder, passer, and more efficient scorer. Fields put up very good numbers even though no one cares. Per 36 min: 11.0 PPG on 46% shooting, 5.3 rbs as an SG, 3.2 assists, 1.9 TOs, and 1.5 stls. People devalue Fields because they overvalue flashiness and inflation of PPG via inefficient scoring.

No we devalue Fields because he can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet. Isn't a shooting guard supposed to be able to hit an outside shot? Bonn get your head out of stats and actually watch a game with your eyes.


As Billy Bean said (paraphrased), "It's OK to watch the game but you have to make sure you don't let your eyes deceive you."
mrKnickShot
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6/25/2012  7:47 PM
Whoever thinks that Fields is not better than JR obviously did not read David Berry's book(s) and that makes you dumb
MSG3
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6/25/2012  7:48 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:JR is all flash, no substance on offense and mediocre on defense unless it's a contract year. Fields is the better rebounder, passer, and more efficient scorer. Fields put up very good numbers even though no one cares. Per 36 min: 11.0 PPG on 46% shooting, 5.3 rbs as an SG, 3.2 assists, 1.9 TOs, and 1.5 stls. People devalue Fields because they overvalue flashiness and inflation of PPG via inefficient scoring.

No we devalue Fields because he can't hit a shot outside of 5 feet. Isn't a shooting guard supposed to be able to hit an outside shot? Bonn get your head out of stats and actually watch a game with your eyes.


As Billy Bean said (paraphrased), "It's OK to watch the game but you have to make sure you don't let your eyes deceive you."

How much success have the As had? About as much as the Knicks with "starphucking". Don't let your eyes deceive you but don't outsmart yourself with numbers and theory.
Bonn1997
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6/25/2012  7:49 PM
callmened wrote:Major ouch felt towards bonn...but i agree with the guys...jr is way better than fields...not only cant fields shoot...but he DOESNT shoot...hes a 6-5 jjeffries..and he doesnt evennplay defense that well

The ONLY reason i wont give up on him is cuz i think he and lin hv a connection. He can find fields for easy baskets...fields is an opportunistic player who scores on garbage pts..hopefully he learns how to shoot

Ironically if jr had learned how to shoot less or at least when to shoot then hed be an allstar...


An ouch towards me would be if someone published peer reviewed research showing that intuition were better than the sabermetrics. But the reverse consistently emerges. Talking with most casual fans about what factors contribute to winning in basketball though is unfortunately as pointless as seeking an expert opinion on a health problem from the lay public rather than a doctor.
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