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The Game has changed! I'n order to win the east the Knicks must have starter who can drain shots.
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IrishKnickFan
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6/20/2012  1:42 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Yes Landry Fields doesnt cut but hey lets blame Melo its convenient!
You've become obsessed with defending melo even though nobody is saying anything bad about him lol
AUTOADVERT
RonRon
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6/20/2012  3:00 PM
Yes, look at the lineups that Miami used vs OKC. 8-9 man rotation of

Chalmers 41minutes
Wade 33minutes
Battier 39minutes
Lebron 44minutes
Bosh 37mintues

J. Jones 20minutes
Haslem 11minutes
N. Cole 7minutes
M. Miller 3minutes

As Papabear pointed out, they used this lineup on purpose, even rarely playing Haslem as their worse shooter, and barely no minutes from Joel Anthony as their best shot blocker/post defender, and help defender. OKC does not have legit threats in posting up PF/C, probably Durant, Perkins, and Nick Collison are the best options.
Haslem has a decent 17footer, can shoot it from the a little beyond the free throw and the baseline jumper. They used this lineup because they wanted to make OKC pay for their big men to help with the penetration and post up, of Dwade and Lebron. Shane Battier, played excellent ball denial defense vs Durant, their 2nd round matchup since last year, 7 game series in which Memphis lost to OKC without Rudy Gay.

While Miami has moved the ball, great movement off the ball, and allowed players to touch the ball throughout the series, giving the element of surprise without allowing OKC to predict who and how was going to score. Only exception was Lebron in the post when he was 1v1, in which he always passed out to his team when the double came too early. Chalmers played great as the 3rd/4th option as the unexpected hero with penetration and hitting the open jumpers. While OKC has been unable to use their ability to overpower Miami's defense with 1v1 ball, in which they dominated the league all year.

OKC's offense was much too predictable for the Heat's defense, without movement off the ball and not moving the ball in which didn't allow OKC's players to get in rhythm.
Must give credit to Miami's defense, their role players hitting open jumpers, and Lebron/Wade both utilizing their teammates as options. They took away the help defense and shot blocking ability of OKC's bigs. When there was no help, it was easy layups and post moves in which Lebron and Wade made converted on. Miami spread the floor really well, with movement off the ball, passing the ball to whoever was open for the good look even if they missed, their team were taking good shots with good looks, high % shots throughout the game, and had great rhythm. Miami was able to execute while OKC hasn't been able to do so.

Many teams in the league today, play with 4 shooters that can spread the floor as legit 3point threats. To make easy baskets, you need penetration, shooters to spread the floor, and post options, in which The Heat had. Only thing OKC missed was a post option, with movement off the ball.
While we have 2 players in Tyson Chandler and Amare that have no post moves and are not threats at the 3point line, with Amare unable to be a consistent shooter at the PF all season.
We also only have one player that has the ability to penetrate with Lin, while lacking movement off the ball, moving the basketball effectively, and have horrible spacing with our "STAR" players in the lineup. Aside from the Linsanity run, we have horrible movement off the ball, and moving the ball as a team to the open man.

It is a great point that Papabear is making and I hope we can add the right players to counter what Miami is doing and have a team that can mimic the philosophy of the Heat.
We can live with 1 player not being a shooting threat in Tyson Chandler, but it is hard to have 2 players on the court vs many of the teams today. Adding Shane Battier to the mix was big for the Heat this year, with his defense and ability to hit the 3point shot to spread the floor. With Tyson Chandler's ability to be the help defender/shot blocker, Chris Bosh will either pull him out or he will get an open look. I hope Tyson Chandler adds just a couple of post moves that eat up a 1v1 defense of Bosh, Haslem, and Joel Anthony's caliber.

Paladin55
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6/20/2012  3:28 PM
The Heat's supporting cast has been sporadic, at times, but Chalmers, Battier, Jones, etc., have 3 pt shooting ability, and they can play tough D.

The other issue is getting the ball to the right players at the right time- i.e., within the flow of the game. The supporting cast also has to feel that they have a green light to do their thing at the right time, and not overly defer to the alpha males.

In Wade and James, the Heat have two stars who are comfortable taking charge of a game, or passing to the open man. The overpaid Bosh has accepted the role of being a jump shooter/cutter to the basket who waits to get the ball without going 1/1 too much. Need I also add that James, Wade, and even Bosh, also make the effort to play defense.

The Heat's offense will frequently break down into a James/Wade top of the key/do your thing type offense, the kind that Anthony likes, but they are both good passers when necessary, especially off the drive, and you have to think that they feel just as good dishing out an assist as scoring.

Our two stars are reluctant passers. Anthony knows how to pass the ball, but lets face it, he helped drive out MDA because he was unwilling to be part of an offense that was not channeled through him- which seemingly involves Anthony isolations, where he will pass when stopped, but not necessarily to guys in good positions to score. Amare has limited vision on the court, limited ability to assess, or even see what is developing, and is a sub-par passer.

I've actually seen some of Anthony's game in Durant and Westbrook- the head down, I'm going 1/1 no matter what attitude, and it seems to me that this has hurt the OKC offense.

We need a Ray Allen type scorer, who can move without the ball and come off screens and hit a J, and we need Amare to hit the midrange shots he was making his first year. I love Landry, but, unless he has really worked on his jumper, he is better coming off the bench as an energy-type player, and I'm not sure Shumpert will ever be the consistent jump shooter we need (Hell... who knows what we can expect from him after he recovers.) You can see what good D does against a guy like Novak, who rarely got open looks in the Heat series because of our lack of ball movement. Novak is actually a barometer... when he is not getting open looks, you know our offense is going iso and our spacing is non-existent.

I don't see any dominant teams in the East except for the Heat and Chicago, and who knows how much Wade has left in him, or what Rose's injury will do to his game. Both have games dependent on their athleticism. Orlando is a damaged franchise at this point, the Celtics have to retool someday, and teams like Atlanta and the Pacers don't exactly inspire fear. Have to watch Philly, I suppose, but they are beatable.


If we can stay relatively healthful, and don't lose too many players to free agency, I can't see why the Knicks won't be in the 45-50 win range over the next few years, but to reach any kind of finals (NBA or ECF)we are really dependent on the health of Wade and Rose, the head of Howard, and the development of young talent, or the FA signings, of other teams.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Bonn1997
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6/20/2012  5:25 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Yes Landry Fields doesnt cut but hey lets blame Melo its convenient!
You've become obsessed with defending melo even though nobody is saying anything bad about him lol

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing
VCoug
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6/20/2012  5:41 PM
I don't know what our team is going to look like next season but, if it's the same team we had this season, I'd like to see Amare move to the bench and Novak move to the starting lineup. We get the 3-pt shooting that we desperately need in the starting lineup and Amare coming off the bench will help with his injuries.
Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Knixkik
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6/20/2012  5:59 PM
VCoug wrote:I don't know what our team is going to look like next season but, if it's the same team we had this season, I'd like to see Amare move to the bench and Novak move to the starting lineup. We get the 3-pt shooting that we desperately need in the starting lineup and Amare coming off the bench will help with his injuries.

It's a decent idea, just not realistic. We need to find a good SG who can shoot lights out. I suggested trading Fields to land a late first round pick for Doron Lamb, but there should be plenty of options. Hopefully we can keep JR Smith for this season and Shumpert comes back at a reasonable time. If we can get a shooter in the lineup like Lamb and have Smith, Novak, and Shumpert all off the bench we can be in great shape.

IrishKnickFan
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6/20/2012  6:13 PM
the main problem is the cap. if we dont win the bird rights case and it seems like weont wont we are in deep ****. I mean we have two guys in amare and meo who probably arent worth the money they're making but those two contracts pretty much kills the cap
callmened
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6/20/2012  11:43 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:the main problem is the cap. if we dont win the bird rights case and it seems like weont wont we are in deep ****. I mean we have two guys in amare and meo who probably arent worth the money they're making but those two contracts pretty much kills the cap

EXACTLY!..irishknickfan is a1000% correct...there problem is our max out contract superstars are not GREAT...the big3 theory means that u either have GREAT superstars (i.e lebron) or 3 good players who compliment each other well...in that respect phil was right to call us "clumsy" since we have a ballhogging SF, injured powerless forward and one dimensional center...im HOPING we get lucky that lin could sort these guys out

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
IrishKnickFan
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6/20/2012  11:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/20/2012  11:57 PM
callmened wrote:
IrishKnickFan wrote:the main problem is the cap. if we dont win the bird rights case and it seems like weont wont we are in deep ****. I mean we have two guys in amare and meo who probably arent worth the money they're making but those two contracts pretty much kills the cap

EXACTLY!..irishknickfan is a1000% correct...there problem is our max out contract superstars are not GREAT...the big3 theory means that u either have GREAT superstars (i.e lebron) or 3 good players who compliment each other well...in that respect phil was right to call us "clumsy" since we have a ballhogging SF, injured powerless forward and one dimensional center...im HOPING we get lucky that lin could sort these guys out

Yup pretty much. The Heat have 2 guys than are better than any of our guys and they also have another all-star player to compliment them. Boston has one of the best forwards in the history game as well as the two bets shooters no to mention rondo. Obviously OKC is loaded. Im a big knick fan its just hard to see us going any further than the second round with the cap situation
The Game has changed! I'n order to win the east the Knicks must have starter who can drain shots.

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