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Jeremy Lin vs. Goran Dragic
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JohnStarksFan
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5/27/2012  11:31 AM
CashMoney wrote:I'm all in on Lin.

+1

AUTOADVERT
callmened
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5/27/2012  12:35 PM
Im worried about his knee and the league scouting report. Before he got hurt he had lots of turnovers. With dragic...im not saying hes a star but hes more establishd
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
JohnStarksFan
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5/27/2012  12:42 PM
callmened wrote:Im worried about his knee and the league scouting report. Before he got hurt he had lots of turnovers. With dragic...im not saying hes a star but hes more establishd

More established? So is Toney Douglas. Let's start him.
You can't teach what the boy has. Injury or no injury you give this kid the chance he deserves. End of conversation.

callmened
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5/27/2012  12:46 PM
I think lin deserves to start and the 5mil bux hes gonna get. Im a lin fan (got his jersey) i jus think they need a legit backup just in case. I guess im expressing my concern that the league will catch up to him. Tdouglas is a 2g not a pg.
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
callmened
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5/27/2012  12:49 PM
It wouldnt surprise me if he avgs 18ppg 8asts....or 3ppg and 3asts...most likely 13ppg and 7 asts

Dragic is a star waiting to explode. When had the time in houston he was great

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
JohnStarksFan
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5/27/2012  1:40 PM
callmened wrote:Dragic is a star waiting to explode. When had the time in houston he was great

You really think so? You don't think once defenses start scouting him he'll go through the same growing

Lin started 25 games. Dragic started 28.
Though they didn't play the same amount of games, let's look at the advantages through averages for the season:
MPG: Lin (26.9 vs. 26.5)
FG%: Dragic (.446 vs. .462)
3P%: Dragic (.320 vs. .337)
FT%: Dragic (.798 vs. .805)
FT Attempted: Lin (5.2 vs. 2.9)
REB: Lin (3.0 vs. 2.5)
AST: Lin (6.2 vs. 5.3)
STL: Lin (1.6 vs. 1.3)
TO: Dragic (3.6 vs. 2.4)
PPG: Lin (14.6 vs. 11.7)

And it can't be disregarded that Lin did this on a club unknown for given the little guys a chance, with the brightest lights, some of the biggest scrutiny, and fans restless from years of disappointment. Dragic barely made a ripple in the public eye.

Put Dragic under that pressure and who knows what happens. I'm saying, Lin deserves his chance over any other PG available, period, and anyone who doesn't agree, well, there's a new club in town with a superstar PG and a .333 win% last year. Jump on that wagon.

tj23
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5/29/2012  4:41 PM
callmened wrote:Im worried about his knee and the league scouting report. Before he got hurt he had lots of turnovers. With dragic...im not saying hes a star but hes more establishd

I'm not saying Lin is better...
tj23
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5/29/2012  4:42 PM
callmened wrote:It wouldnt surprise me if he avgs 18ppg 8asts....or 3ppg and 3asts...most likely 13ppg and 7 asts

Dragic is a star waiting to explode. When had the time in houston he was great


...But Lin is better...
BRIGGS
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6/20/2012  10:14 AM
ChuckBuck wrote:The top 2 young point guard prospects in free agency, let's see who wins out.


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/19842/jeremy-lin-vs-goran-dragic


Jeremy Lin vs. Goran Dragic
By Jared Zwerling

When Jeremy Lin's agent, Roger Montgomery, said earlier this week that he doesn't have "assurances" from the Knicks that his client will be back with the team, perhaps Goran Dragic has something to do with that.

Lin and Dragic are viewed as the most attractive young point guards in the 2012 free-agent class -- and Dragic appears to be the clear favorite in NBA front-office circles.

ESPN New York asked six GMs which player they would choose to be their starter, and all of them picked Dragic. Lin's and Dragic's averages were nearly identical as starters -- 18.2 points, 7.7 assists and 2.0 steals over 25 games vs. 18.2 points, 8.3 assists and 1.8 steals over 26 games -- but GMs and scouts compare Dragic a bit more to Steve Nash, especially because he grew under the tutelage of the two-time MVP in Phoenix from 2008 to '11.

While Lin is the favorite to sign with the Knicks, don't count out the Rockets' Dragic. Even his agent, Rade Filipovich, thinks the Knicks would be a "first-class organization" for his client.

To find out more about the point guards' similarities and differences, ESPN New York consulted with a veteran NBA scout from the Eastern Conference and another from the West. Their insights about the two players were nearly in agreement.

Attacking (Advantage: Lin) -- When Lin penetrates, he's able to get lower and keep his defender out of position. "[Legendary coach] Bob Hurley Sr. always used to say, 'The low man wins, whatever sport it is,'" one scout said. "Defensively, you can't get into your stance well enough. Lin, for his size and height, is pretty impressive at being able to get low to the ground and keep his balance."

Competitiveness (Even) -- One scout was impressed with Lin's game-winner in Toronto on Valentine's Day, saying, "When you have the confidence in yourself and ability to make those shots, that's big." Regarding Dragic, another scout was taken aback by a move he put on Jamaal Tinsley in Novemer 2009, saying, "For him to go right back through Tinsley's legs, after he did it to him, was impressive. It proved to me his fight and how skilled he is."

Craftiness (Advantage: Dragic) -- While Lin has a nice left-to-right crossover, Dragic is quicker and has more lethal moves: a spin, crossover, double cross, behind-the-back and even a "Dream Shake" like Hakeem Olajuwon. "Dragic will drive baseline and then fake up, get the defender in the air and then he'll come back the other way and lay the ball in with the other hand," one scout said. "You can call it the Dragic Shake."

Finishing (Advantage: Dragic) -- They have the ability to take contact near the basket and kick the ball out to a teammate or score themselves. Dragic is slightly more explosive at the rim. Also, this past sesaon the heavier minutes impacted Lin's finishing ability. "I think his stamina was down because he was basically a backup guy playing about 35, 40 minutes," one scout said. "Stamina is definitely a factor, especially when teams are trying to trap more."

Hands (Advantage: Dragic) -- Both have quick hands defensively and play passing lanes well. On offense, the lefty Dragic can finish better with his opposite hand. Also, being a southpaw gives him a slight edge. "I think when there's a sudden change, whether it be a reserve coming into the game or maybe he gets switched on to someone who doesn't normally guard him, there's that instinct you're expecting a right-handed guy," one scout said.

Pick-and-roll (Even) -- They have a bit of Chris Paul's ability to change speeds and directions utilizing screens in pick-and-roll situations. "They can walk their defender into a screen and then explode off the screen," one scout said. "They have the ability where they actually can speed up into the screen and yet still get their defender on their back. They've got a lot of good thrust coming off the screen and then the ability to sink their teeth into the defense."

Shooting (Even) -- They're not great 3-point shooters. "They're both around 33 percent from three," one scout said. "That's still good to me, but when you have guys like Steve Nash shooting usually above 40 percent from three, that kind of raised the bar. If you get a point guard that's up around 37, 38 percent, that's really impressive. The consistency in their 3-point shooting is where you want to see a little bit of an improvement."

Transition (Advantage: Dragic) -- Not only does Dragic put pressure on the halfcourt defense, but he also constantly does it full court. "The thing that struck me was his knowledge of getting the ball inbounds, getting it up the court quickly and attacking," one scout said. "He put pressure on the defense in terms of as soon as the ball went through the hoop, he got the inbounds and he was pushing it right back at you. One of the best guys at that is Steve Nash."

Overall, both scouts said ball control is the biggest reason why Dragic is the better player right now. Lin's turnover rate was a reason for concern last season.

Will Lin -- a restricted free agent and the driving force behind the Knicks' midseason resurgence -- return to New York?

"The Knicks almost can't let Lin go," one scout said. "They would piss off so many fans. Barring something really odd, I think they have to bring him back. In the Knicks' situation, I don't think Dragic would ever fly."

Now, if Lin is granted Early Bird Rights in mid-June, the Knicks would still have a mid-level exception of $5 million to spend on someone else. That could be Dragic, who would likely get the starting nod over Lin in New York. The question is: What will Dragic's asking price be? Insiders predict he'll be in higher demand than Lin.

You can follow Jared Zwerling on Twitter.


Dragic gets the slight nod over Lin in pure basketball ability. Obviously, you'd love to have both young point guards, but realistically the Knicks will resign Lin. If it was strictly a basketball decision, Dragic is the better bet, although Lin is no slouch. Business wise and marketing wise it's a no brainer, Lin's the pick.

Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

RIP Crushalot😞
ChuckBuck
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6/20/2012  10:18 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:The top 2 young point guard prospects in free agency, let's see who wins out.


http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/19842/jeremy-lin-vs-goran-dragic


Jeremy Lin vs. Goran Dragic
By Jared Zwerling

When Jeremy Lin's agent, Roger Montgomery, said earlier this week that he doesn't have "assurances" from the Knicks that his client will be back with the team, perhaps Goran Dragic has something to do with that.

Lin and Dragic are viewed as the most attractive young point guards in the 2012 free-agent class -- and Dragic appears to be the clear favorite in NBA front-office circles.

ESPN New York asked six GMs which player they would choose to be their starter, and all of them picked Dragic. Lin's and Dragic's averages were nearly identical as starters -- 18.2 points, 7.7 assists and 2.0 steals over 25 games vs. 18.2 points, 8.3 assists and 1.8 steals over 26 games -- but GMs and scouts compare Dragic a bit more to Steve Nash, especially because he grew under the tutelage of the two-time MVP in Phoenix from 2008 to '11.

While Lin is the favorite to sign with the Knicks, don't count out the Rockets' Dragic. Even his agent, Rade Filipovich, thinks the Knicks would be a "first-class organization" for his client.

To find out more about the point guards' similarities and differences, ESPN New York consulted with a veteran NBA scout from the Eastern Conference and another from the West. Their insights about the two players were nearly in agreement.

Attacking (Advantage: Lin) -- When Lin penetrates, he's able to get lower and keep his defender out of position. "[Legendary coach] Bob Hurley Sr. always used to say, 'The low man wins, whatever sport it is,'" one scout said. "Defensively, you can't get into your stance well enough. Lin, for his size and height, is pretty impressive at being able to get low to the ground and keep his balance."

Competitiveness (Even) -- One scout was impressed with Lin's game-winner in Toronto on Valentine's Day, saying, "When you have the confidence in yourself and ability to make those shots, that's big." Regarding Dragic, another scout was taken aback by a move he put on Jamaal Tinsley in Novemer 2009, saying, "For him to go right back through Tinsley's legs, after he did it to him, was impressive. It proved to me his fight and how skilled he is."

Craftiness (Advantage: Dragic) -- While Lin has a nice left-to-right crossover, Dragic is quicker and has more lethal moves: a spin, crossover, double cross, behind-the-back and even a "Dream Shake" like Hakeem Olajuwon. "Dragic will drive baseline and then fake up, get the defender in the air and then he'll come back the other way and lay the ball in with the other hand," one scout said. "You can call it the Dragic Shake."

Finishing (Advantage: Dragic) -- They have the ability to take contact near the basket and kick the ball out to a teammate or score themselves. Dragic is slightly more explosive at the rim. Also, this past sesaon the heavier minutes impacted Lin's finishing ability. "I think his stamina was down because he was basically a backup guy playing about 35, 40 minutes," one scout said. "Stamina is definitely a factor, especially when teams are trying to trap more."

Hands (Advantage: Dragic) -- Both have quick hands defensively and play passing lanes well. On offense, the lefty Dragic can finish better with his opposite hand. Also, being a southpaw gives him a slight edge. "I think when there's a sudden change, whether it be a reserve coming into the game or maybe he gets switched on to someone who doesn't normally guard him, there's that instinct you're expecting a right-handed guy," one scout said.

Pick-and-roll (Even) -- They have a bit of Chris Paul's ability to change speeds and directions utilizing screens in pick-and-roll situations. "They can walk their defender into a screen and then explode off the screen," one scout said. "They have the ability where they actually can speed up into the screen and yet still get their defender on their back. They've got a lot of good thrust coming off the screen and then the ability to sink their teeth into the defense."

Shooting (Even) -- They're not great 3-point shooters. "They're both around 33 percent from three," one scout said. "That's still good to me, but when you have guys like Steve Nash shooting usually above 40 percent from three, that kind of raised the bar. If you get a point guard that's up around 37, 38 percent, that's really impressive. The consistency in their 3-point shooting is where you want to see a little bit of an improvement."

Transition (Advantage: Dragic) -- Not only does Dragic put pressure on the halfcourt defense, but he also constantly does it full court. "The thing that struck me was his knowledge of getting the ball inbounds, getting it up the court quickly and attacking," one scout said. "He put pressure on the defense in terms of as soon as the ball went through the hoop, he got the inbounds and he was pushing it right back at you. One of the best guys at that is Steve Nash."

Overall, both scouts said ball control is the biggest reason why Dragic is the better player right now. Lin's turnover rate was a reason for concern last season.

Will Lin -- a restricted free agent and the driving force behind the Knicks' midseason resurgence -- return to New York?

"The Knicks almost can't let Lin go," one scout said. "They would piss off so many fans. Barring something really odd, I think they have to bring him back. In the Knicks' situation, I don't think Dragic would ever fly."

Now, if Lin is granted Early Bird Rights in mid-June, the Knicks would still have a mid-level exception of $5 million to spend on someone else. That could be Dragic, who would likely get the starting nod over Lin in New York. The question is: What will Dragic's asking price be? Insiders predict he'll be in higher demand than Lin.

You can follow Jared Zwerling on Twitter.


Dragic gets the slight nod over Lin in pure basketball ability. Obviously, you'd love to have both young point guards, but realistically the Knicks will resign Lin. If it was strictly a basketball decision, Dragic is the better bet, although Lin is no slouch. Business wise and marketing wise it's a no brainer, Lin's the pick.

Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Dragic is most likely priced out of the Knicks plans especially with EBR case probably not going our way. Jeremy and a veteran PG is the best we can do, and that's not a bad thing at all depending on the veteran.

JohnStarksFan
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6/20/2012  11:10 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Jmpasq
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6/20/2012  11:15 AM
The only way the Knicks are getting Dragic is a sign and trade involving Amare
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
BRIGGS
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6/20/2012  11:52 AM
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Hes going to get 8-10mm$ per

RIP Crushalot😞
JohnStarksFan
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6/20/2012  12:05 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Hes going to get 8-10mm$ per

Probably a 4 year escalating deal with a 5th year option worth a total of around $36. That's what he's worth, and probably what he'll get.
But next year he's looking at $5.5 - 6, but not $10, you're bugging.

callmened
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6/20/2012  1:00 PM
That kid will be a star...if we didnt have lin...id want him on my team
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
BRIGGS
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6/21/2012  10:59 AM
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Hes going to get 8-10mm$ per

Probably a 4 year escalating deal with a 5th year option worth a total of around $36. That's what he's worth, and probably what he'll get.
But next year he's looking at $5.5 - 6, but not $10, you're bugging.

My guess 5 yrs 43mm$

RIP Crushalot😞
Jmpasq
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6/22/2012  7:51 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Hes going to get 8-10mm$ per

Probably a 4 year escalating deal with a 5th year option worth a total of around $36. That's what he's worth, and probably what he'll get.
But next year he's looking at $5.5 - 6, but not $10, you're bugging.

My guess 5 yrs 43mm$


Knicks better be convinced he is the real deal because Im not. If he isnt that contract will cripple them in the future
Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
JohnStarksFan
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6/22/2012  9:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2012  9:48 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Hes going to get 8-10mm$ per

Probably a 4 year escalating deal with a 5th year option worth a total of around $36. That's what he's worth, and probably what he'll get.
But next year he's looking at $5.5 - 6, but not $10, you're bugging.

My guess 5 yrs 43mm$


Knicks better be convinced he is the real deal because Im not. If he isnt that contract will cripple them in the future

We're talking about Dragic friend.

But Lin will get the same, if not more, teams may offer him more in the later 3rd and 4th years of the contract and because he has a power agency working for him now, the price tag is going to be steep.

BUT, the Knicks will match regardless because in the 3rd year of Lin's new contract, Melo will have a player option he may or may not pick up depending on the next few seasons, and Amare will be in the last year of his. Assuming he isn't moved before then, and he doesn't go Kevin Garnett status and actually earn the $42 Mil he's owed the next 2 seasons, they can amnesty the contract and the $23.4 he'd be owed that season and be able to afford Lin plus more.

MSG3
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6/22/2012  10:49 AM
JohnStarksFan wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Who cares who is better--we dont have a chance in hll to get Dragic who will likely get 8-9mm in starting cash--maybe upwards of 10. At 5mm Jeremy is a bargain and we control it.

Since when would he get that kind of cash? You are drastically over-inflating his value. Him and Lin will get similar $$, he is not going to get 4x last year's salary, that's bonkers.

Hes going to get 8-10mm$ per

Probably a 4 year escalating deal with a 5th year option worth a total of around $36. That's what he's worth, and probably what he'll get.
But next year he's looking at $5.5 - 6, but not $10, you're bugging.

My guess 5 yrs 43mm$


Knicks better be convinced he is the real deal because Im not. If he isnt that contract will cripple them in the future

We're talking about Dragic friend.

But Lin will get the same, if not more, teams may offer him more in the later 3rd and 4th years of the contract and because he has a power agency working for him now, the price tag is going to be steep.

BUT, the Knicks will match regardless because in the 3rd year of Lin's new contract, Melo will have a player option he may or may not pick up depending on the next few seasons, and Amare will be in the last year of his. Assuming he isn't moved before then, and he doesn't go Kevin Garnett status and actually earn the $42 Mil he's owed the next 2 seasons, they can amnesty the contract and the $23.4 he'd be owed that season and be able to afford Lin plus more.

Nobody can offer Lin more than anyone else. Knicks will match whatever other teams try to sign him for. The biggest fear is that other teams will try to sign him for the maximum allwed to a RFA. If the market was light for him the Knicks could try to convince him to take less. But he won't take less. If he's not the real deal this will be his biggest pay day. And I'm not convinced he's the real deal. I like him but it was too small a sample size. That's why if we don't win the bird rights case and Nash was willing to take the MLE for 5 years I'd take my chances with him.

Nalod
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6/22/2012  10:51 AM
Draguc could be Nets plan "B" if Deron bolts.

Nets on the surface look silly but its going to be interesting to see how it all really plays out.

Jeremy Lin vs. Goran Dragic

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