To a lessor extent Melo with Karl. I think Melo's exit was mutual on both sides. Melo wanted out and to get his money he had to cooperate.

THats not hate, its just what it looked like.

Jeez, remember when we bought in Don Nelson to intstall an uptempo offense and ewing would have no part of it?

Great idea, but shouldn't they have talked to ewing about it first?

loweyecue wrote:

Nalod wrote:Maybe woodson will be the next Doc Rivers?

Everything I know about Sloan and the way he coached and the relationship he had with Larry Miller I can't imagine NY would be the place for him.

He was an institution in Salt Lake.

The guy is a strong values man and a tough SOB.

Can't think of a worse guy for MSG to employ. Thats a compliment on him BTW.

KNick Fans love to superimpose the success of a coach who had past glory and extrapolate that into a knick future.

Don't we ever learn?

This is not ATL or Utah! We don't have those players on the roster so why think the result would be similar?

Have some imagination that the past experience of Woodsons playing days (played a bit under Holzman for what its worth) under Bobby Knight and lead assistant under Larry Brown in Detroit as well as doing a good job in ATL, and a year with MDAs might be the kind of learning experiences that could make the next really good coach.

The idea is not hire a man after the fact. The idea is to hire a man entering his coaching prime.

The circumstances for Woodson are very good. Give him a chance.

Guess I won't hold my breadth.

There's no "after the fact" in coaching. It's not a function of age, coaches get better with age not worse. No one said we have ATL or Utah players, but like anything else in sports you judge people based on what they have accomplished. When it comes to the playoffs Woodson has accomplished jack sh!t.

For me grading coaching is not just the product of knowing how far into the playoffs a coach and team has gone.

Sloan had 2 high level HOF players on his team and some low level allstars to compliment those guys and some high level role players. Woody has had Joe Johnson and ?

Woody was the defensive coach for the Detroit teams, right? Assistant for sure, but still an important cog.

As head coach in ALT, his teams got better every year.

martin wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Nalod wrote:Maybe woodson will be the next Doc Rivers?

Everything I know about Sloan and the way he coached and the relationship he had with Larry Miller I can't imagine NY would be the place for him.

He was an institution in Salt Lake.

The guy is a strong values man and a tough SOB.

Can't think of a worse guy for MSG to employ. Thats a compliment on him BTW.

KNick Fans love to superimpose the success of a coach who had past glory and extrapolate that into a knick future.

Don't we ever learn?

This is not ATL or Utah! We don't have those players on the roster so why think the result would be similar?

Have some imagination that the past experience of Woodsons playing days (played a bit under Holzman for what its worth) under Bobby Knight and lead assistant under Larry Brown in Detroit as well as doing a good job in ATL, and a year with MDAs might be the kind of learning experiences that could make the next really good coach.

The idea is not hire a man after the fact. The idea is to hire a man entering his coaching prime.

The circumstances for Woodson are very good. Give him a chance.

Guess I won't hold my breadth.

There's no "after the fact" in coaching. It's not a function of age, coaches get better with age not worse. No one said we have ATL or Utah players, but like anything else in sports you judge people based on what they have accomplished. When it comes to the playoffs Woodson has accomplished jack sh!t.

For me grading coaching is not just the product of knowing how far into the playoffs a coach and team has gone.

Sloan had 2 high level HOF players on his team and some low level allstars to compliment those guys and some high level role players. Woody has had Joe Johnson and ?

Woody was the defensive coach for the Detroit teams, right? Assistant for sure, but still an important cog.

As head coach in ALT, his teams got better every year.

That's the point isn't it? Sloan made some average players play as high level role players and got into the needs of the team. I don't think Woody has shown he can develop players or is even interested in trying. We just had coach that focused mostly on one side of the ball. Woody is the same, and I think he will be similarly stubborn in his approach. I just have a bad feeling about this.

Nalod wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Nalod wrote:Good point. We don't know what happened with Deron but we do know it drove Sloan mad.

To a lessor extent Melo with Karl. I think Melo's exit was mutual on both sides. Melo wanted out and to get his money he had to cooperate.

THats not hate, its just what it looked like.

Jeez, remember when we bought in Don Nelson to intstall an uptempo offense and ewing would have no part of it?

Great idea, but shouldn't they have talked to ewing about it first?

NO they shouldn't have talked to Ewing first, this what is wrong with this approach. The team has a governance structure for a reason, the GM should choose the coach that best fits into the team vision. It's about the Knicks - it's not about Ewing or Melo.

This is exactly why we have diva players dictating terms instead of playing basketball. This is the at the core of what is wrong with pro sports as a whole. Do you really want Melo to decide what the roster, coach and style of play should be like? You can't have "some" say in it, either you choose or you don't. I am very much against letting players make personnel decisions. Especially when the player has only been with team for a couple of years.

ORL bend over backwards to cater to DH and now he will go somewhere else laughing al the way to the bank. That is what we need to learn from. If Melo cant accept playing team oriented basketball ship his ass out of town.

But......

Ewing did win in the battle of wills and Nelson was out.

I get what your saying and its how it "SHOULD" be, but its not.

MDA vs. Melo. Melo wins.

Stars win. Just not alwys the team they play for.

Didn't Magic Johnson force out his first coach, Paul Westhead? I hear Michael Jordan had a hand in showing Doug Collins the door even though they made it finally to the Eastern Conference Finals before losing to eventual champion Detroit Pistons. History says it's a player's league first and foremost.

martin wrote:

loweyecue wrote:BTW Cjris Broussard suggested on ESPN yesterday that ORL would make a play at Doc Rivers so I didn't make it up.

Kind of strange considering the below?

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/13/sports/la-sp-newswire-20110514

Doc Rivers signs five-year contract extension with Celtics

The 49-year-old returns to the Celtics after saying earlier this season he planned to take a break from coaching.
May 13, 2011

Doc Rivers agreed to a five-year contract extension that would not only give him another run at an NBA title as coach of the Celtics, but also could keep him in Boston to help rebuild the franchise when the Big Three era is done.

"I think Doc is the best coach in the league. So it's great for us," General Manager Danny Ainge said. "There's nobody I'd rather have as my coach than Doc."

Rivers' contract was set to expire — he had an option for next season — and he said after the Celtics were eliminated by the Miami Heat on Wednesday night that he was "leaning heavily" toward coming back. But he was expected to return on a short-term deal to make one more run at a title with Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen.

Instead, the five-year contract worth a reported $35 million would give him the chance to lead the franchise with a rebuilt roster that probably won't include any of those three stars.

Rivers has coached the Celtics for the last seven seasons, winning the NBA title in 2008 and reaching the Finals in 2010 before losing in seven games to the Lakers.

It was in cat years, obviously. Therefore 5 cat years = 1 year. Free agent. Duh. Keep up, man.

gunsnewing wrote:I have a bad feeling about Sloan coming here and it becoming Larry Brown v2.0

I agree, unless we traded Melo, and maybe Amare.
Which isn't totally impossible, given the success we had with Lin, Tyson Chandler, Iman, and rest bench players, during the Linsanity run.

But Bobcats really aren't that bad choice for Sloan either.
Given that they have the worse record last year, their rookies, know they must improve, and would be looking for guidance from their coach.
Those young players know, are old enough to know the success Karl Malone/ Stockton have performed with a bunch of role players and Sloan.
They have coacheable players, with Tyrus Thomas being the only "misfit" but Sloan could finally possibly unlock his potential.

Add Anthony Davis in to their squad, they really have some sick length on their squad.
With Kemba Walker with a year under there belt, he could follow the steps of Deron Williams success.

BJ Mullens got a taste of how he can be an effective player with his shot, if he masters the PnR with Kemba, they could be nice players offensively together.
They have much salary cap, relief after this next season, and will have tons of draft picks and yoots to develop.

Gerald Henderson, was probably their best player with the most consistency.
But he isn't a first option or even a 2nd. He is a 3rd option player with a great shot, good length, and athleticism.

Biyombo + Anthony Davis together, they would be the new Hybrids of PF/C with great length/athleticism/ and reach.

Kemba Walker
Henderson
Maggette
Anthony Davis *assuming they get the 1st pick, which they are projected, with many picks this year*
Biyombo

Bj Mullens
Tyrus Thomas
Dj Austine *just might trade him if they can get ANY value for him*
*2nd round pick, 31st pick*
DJ White
Reggie WIlliams

With many 1st rounders and 2nd rounders coming their way, with almost no salary, with another year, they will have the ability to sign many FAs.
Can Jordan mess it up again? If he doesn't get unlucky, he will have a no brainer with Anthony Davis is their pick vs picking another Kwame Brown or Morrison.
They have some combination of length, speed/quickness, and athleticism, with the right luck, they could follow in the footsteps of OKC.

I think we will have a tough time vs this squad, next year, especially if Sloan is coaching for them.
Heck, if I was Sloan, I would much rather coach The Bobcats than the Knicks, a premadonna and "all star mentality" in Melo and shoot myself if I had Amare as a defender.
Although Amare could do some of the things Malone did with the PnR but has no post game at all.
Just a thought, would you guys do a deal like

Maggette/Diop (both are expirings) with their 2nd round pick, 31st pick

for Amare
31st pick = Darius Johnson-Odom

Nalod wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Nalod wrote:Good point. We don't know what happened with Deron but we do know it drove Sloan mad.

To a lessor extent Melo with Karl. I think Melo's exit was mutual on both sides. Melo wanted out and to get his money he had to cooperate.

THats not hate, its just what it looked like.

Jeez, remember when we bought in Don Nelson to intstall an uptempo offense and ewing would have no part of it?

Great idea, but shouldn't they have talked to ewing about it first?

NO they shouldn't have talked to Ewing first, this what is wrong with this approach. The team has a governance structure for a reason, the GM should choose the coach that best fits into the team vision. It's about the Knicks - it's not about Ewing or Melo.

This is exactly why we have diva players dictating terms instead of playing basketball. This is the at the core of what is wrong with pro sports as a whole. Do you really want Melo to decide what the roster, coach and style of play should be like? You can't have "some" say in it, either you choose or you don't. I am very much against letting players make personnel decisions. Especially when the player has only been with team for a couple of years.

ORL bend over backwards to cater to DH and now he will go somewhere else laughing al the way to the bank. That is what we need to learn from. If Melo cant accept playing team oriented basketball ship his ass out of town.

But......

Ewing did win in the battle of wills and Nelson was out.

I get what your saying and its how it "SHOULD" be, but its not.

MDA vs. Melo. Melo wins.

Stars win. Just not alwys the team they play for.

I know we don't have any say on what Dolan does but I don't see why you and I need to accept that as "normal".