ShellTopAdidas wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Bird assembled most, if not all, of that roster over the years. He deserves the award.

Grunwald is ridiculously overrated here. Throwing max money at Tyson Chandler is not deserving of an award. Anyone could have done that. And as for Lin and Novak, nobody ever saw that coming. Not even Lin and Novak.

isn't this what makes someone better than another? Grunwald saw something in both of those guys and pursued them.

Grunwald didn't see anything. He signed these guys to fill out the end of the bench. He never envisioned this. Nobody in the entire league, or even the world, saw it coming.

Doesn't mean that Grunwald didn't see potential enough for them to be good enough to be on the team.

Also, please back up your statement that Grunwald didn't see anything. How do you know that?

Spurs drafted Tony Parker and Manu and I am pretty sure the Spurs organization didn't think that both would be at the high level of all stars that they turned out to be, doesn't mean they don't deserve credit for recognizing the potential.

Same for what most were thinking about how Walsh did with drafting Fields after his initial year.

JamesKPolk, It's not true that no one saw it coming because Novak was known within the NBA as a serious sharp shooter, which is what we brought him in for. MDA wanted a stretch 4 to replace Shawne, which is a huge part of MDA likes to have on his roster. As for Lin, there were those even on this forum that were very high on Lin and both MDA and Grunwald actually liked Lin's talent despite not drafting him.. When you're a GM you have to keep your eye out for guys that aren't heralded, but you know they have specific NBA skills. In this case Grunwald was specifically looking for players that he felt would fit with what MDA likes to do. A penetrating PG and a sharpshooting forward is a very specific role in an MDA offense and Grunwald found 2 good players that fit those roles perfectly!!!

It sounds to me that MDA deserved exec of the year.

He sure as Hell didn't deserve what he got.....don't even get me started! Smh!

Exactly, he should've resigned earlier so we could've gotten a better record and higher seed!

No, if certain players brought in and didn't insist on Meloball, we would have gotten an even better record and even a higher seed.

And if we got player A, and system B, and the stars aligned...enough with the excuses!

You are what your record says you are - Bill Parcells

What excuses??? Melo admitted he didn't play hard till Woody was coach. He gave MDA system the hook without really giving it a chance cause the offence didn't go thru him and management backed Melo 100%. And that's ok??? C'mon son!!!!

What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

So would you categorize D'Antoni's 3 1/2 seasons as Knicks coach a success or failure? Pretty simple question, no? All I keep hearing are excuses is we're rebuilding, clearing the cap for Lebron, Can't teach Nate how to play point, Duhon breaks down after how many games, don't play Marbury for whatever reason even to raise his value for trade bait, David Lee not a franchise player, can't play Jordan Hill/Corey Brewer/Timofey Mozgov/Jeremy Lin because they're not ready. Blah blah blah... Sticking to players too long, shortening rotations when he should expand, in game adjustments, End of game situations. Seriously, if you or I made this many excuses at our jobs we'd all be collecting unemployment.

I guess it depends on you how define success and failure. What were your expectations?

And given what did happen with the team and their transactions, what was that impact?

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

So would you categorize D'Antoni's 3 1/2 seasons as Knicks coach a success or failure? Pretty simple question, no? All I keep hearing are excuses is we're rebuilding, clearing the cap for Lebron, Can't teach Nate how to play point, Duhon breaks down after how many games, don't play Marbury for whatever reason even to raise his value for trade bait, David Lee not a franchise player, can't play Jordan Hill/Corey Brewer/Timofey Mozgov/Jeremy Lin because they're not ready. Blah blah blah... Sticking to players too long, shortening rotations when he should expand, in game adjustments, End of game situations. Seriously, if you or I made this many excuses at our jobs we'd all be collecting unemployment.

Chuck Buck, is actually right, how many teams took our players, with little or not much value while in NY, and then develop in to good players and finding a role on a team?
Many were instinct, some needed more years to develop, while the players deserve some of the blame, possibly by unable to play under the pressure of NY and the Media..

Channing Frye *has developed in to a good role with the help of Nash and Gortat, even though he never played for Dantoni*
Ariza
Darko
Jordan Hill
Nate Robinson
Cory Brewer

Dantoni was crying, we have no PG the whole year, while many of us here on the message boards were waiting for Lin to finally get a shot, while the rest of the players got a chance.
Lin was on the bench the whole time, but could not break out of "DANTONI's DOGHOUSE", yes it really exists, one of the reasons I strongly hate about him.
Marbury came in the camp, in great shape, and ready to reconcile with Dantoni in Phoenix, but instead he puts him in the dog house and we lose any trade value for him.

Dantoni's stubbornness, many inabilities: to adapt to new changes, to make adjustments, to hold his players and stars accountable, to develop his young players, and unable to handle the pressure of playing/coaching in New York. I think the years of constantly losing and having the Media rag on him took a big toll on him.
However, it was a big mistake to sign him in the first place, if we were going to rebuild, it just didn't make sense. He always tried to win versus developing his young prospects.

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

So would you categorize D'Antoni's 3 1/2 seasons as Knicks coach a success or failure? Pretty simple question, no? All I keep hearing are excuses is we're rebuilding, clearing the cap for Lebron, Can't teach Nate how to play point, Duhon breaks down after how many games, don't play Marbury for whatever reason even to raise his value for trade bait, David Lee not a franchise player, can't play Jordan Hill/Corey Brewer/Timofey Mozgov/Jeremy Lin because they're not ready. Blah blah blah... Sticking to players too long, shortening rotations when he should expand, in game adjustments, End of game situations. Seriously, if you or I made this many excuses at our jobs we'd all be collecting unemployment.

Chuck Buck, is actually right, how many teams took our players, with little or not much value while in NY, and then develop in to good players and finding a role on a team?
Many were instinct, some needed more years to develop, while the players deserve some of the blame, possibly by unable to play under the pressure of NY and the Media..

Channing Frye *has developed in to a good role with the help of Nash and Gortat, even though he never played for Dantoni*
Ariza
Darko
Jordan Hill
Nate Robinson
Cory Brewer

Dantoni was crying, we have no PG the whole year, while many of us here on the message boards were waiting for Lin to finally get a shot, while the rest of the players got a chance.
Lin was on the bench the whole time, but could not break out of "DANTONI's DOGHOUSE", yes it really exists, one of the reasons I strongly hate about him.
Marbury came in the camp, in great shape, and ready to reconcile with Dantoni in Phoenix, but instead he puts him in the dog house and we lose any trade value for him.

Dantoni's stubbornness, many inabilities: to adapt to new changes, to make adjustments, to hold his players and stars accountable, to develop his young players, and unable to handle the pressure of playing/coaching in New York. I think the years of constantly losing and having the Media rag on him took a big toll on him.
However, it was a big mistake to sign him in the first place, if we were going to rebuild, it just didn't make sense. He always tried to win versus developing his young prospects.

THANK YOU RONRON!

Thought I was the only one to see the big picture. Before he came aboard, I had wanted Mark Jackson since he was a Walsh disciple if you're going the rebuild route or alternately Tom Thibadeau to take the reins as a tough defensive minded coach who was instrumental in Boston's 2008 championship run. Well we all know what happened instead...

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:Bird assembled most, if not all, of that roster over the years. He deserves the award.

Grunwald is ridiculously overrated here. Throwing max money at Tyson Chandler is not deserving of an award. Anyone could have done that. And as for Lin and Novak, nobody ever saw that coming. Not even Lin and Novak.

isn't this what makes someone better than another? Grunwald saw something in both of those guys and pursued them.

Grunwald didn't see anything. He signed these guys to fill out the end of the bench. He never envisioned this. Nobody in the entire league, or even the world, saw it coming.

Doesn't mean that Grunwald didn't see potential enough for them to be good enough to be on the team.

Also, please back up your statement that Grunwald didn't see anything. How do you know that?

Spurs drafted Tony Parker and Manu and I am pretty sure the Spurs organization didn't think that both would be at the high level of all stars that they turned out to be, doesn't mean they don't deserve credit for recognizing the potential.

Same for what most were thinking about how Walsh did with drafting Fields after his initial year.

JamesKPolk, It's not true that no one saw it coming because Novak was known within the NBA as a serious sharp shooter, which is what we brought him in for. MDA wanted a stretch 4 to replace Shawne, which is a huge part of MDA likes to have on his roster. As for Lin, there were those even on this forum that were very high on Lin and both MDA and Grunwald actually liked Lin's talent despite not drafting him.. When you're a GM you have to keep your eye out for guys that aren't heralded, but you know they have specific NBA skills. In this case Grunwald was specifically looking for players that he felt would fit with what MDA likes to do. A penetrating PG and a sharpshooting forward is a very specific role in an MDA offense and Grunwald found 2 good players that fit those roles perfectly!!!

It sounds to me that MDA deserved exec of the year.

He sure as Hell didn't deserve what he got.....don't even get me started! Smh!

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

So would you categorize D'Antoni's 3 1/2 seasons as Knicks coach a success or failure? Pretty simple question, no? All I keep hearing are excuses is we're rebuilding, clearing the cap for Lebron, Can't teach Nate how to play point, Duhon breaks down after how many games, don't play Marbury for whatever reason even to raise his value for trade bait, David Lee not a franchise player, can't play Jordan Hill/Corey Brewer/Timofey Mozgov/Jeremy Lin because they're not ready. Blah blah blah... Sticking to players too long, shortening rotations when he should expand, in game adjustments, End of game situations. Seriously, if you or I made this many excuses at our jobs we'd all be collecting unemployment.

Chuck Buck, is actually right, how many teams took our players, with little or not much value while in NY, and then develop in to good players and finding a role on a team?
Many were instinct, some needed more years to develop, while the players deserve some of the blame, possibly by unable to play under the pressure of NY and the Media..

Channing Frye *has developed in to a good role with the help of Nash and Gortat, even though he never played for Dantoni*
Ariza
Darko
Jordan Hill
Nate Robinson
Cory Brewer

Dantoni was crying, we have no PG the whole year, while many of us here on the message boards were waiting for Lin to finally get a shot, while the rest of the players got a chance.
Lin was on the bench the whole time, but could not break out of "DANTONI's DOGHOUSE", yes it really exists, one of the reasons I strongly hate about him.
Marbury came in the camp, in great shape, and ready to reconcile with Dantoni in Phoenix, but instead he puts him in the dog house and we lose any trade value for him.

Dantoni's stubbornness, many inabilities: to adapt to new changes, to make adjustments, to hold his players and stars accountable, to develop his young players, and unable to handle the pressure of playing/coaching in New York. I think the years of constantly losing and having the Media rag on him took a big toll on him.
However, it was a big mistake to sign him in the first place, if we were going to rebuild, it just didn't make sense. He always tried to win versus developing his young prospects.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

So would you categorize D'Antoni's 3 1/2 seasons as Knicks coach a success or failure? Pretty simple question, no? All I keep hearing are excuses is we're rebuilding, clearing the cap for Lebron, Can't teach Nate how to play point, Duhon breaks down after how many games, don't play Marbury for whatever reason even to raise his value for trade bait, David Lee not a franchise player, can't play Jordan Hill/Corey Brewer/Timofey Mozgov/Jeremy Lin because they're not ready. Blah blah blah... Sticking to players too long, shortening rotations when he should expand, in game adjustments, End of game situations. Seriously, if you or I made this many excuses at our jobs we'd all be collecting unemployment.

Chuck Buck, is actually right, how many teams took our players, with little or not much value while in NY, and then develop in to good players and finding a role on a team?
Many were instinct, some needed more years to develop, while the players deserve some of the blame, possibly by unable to play under the pressure of NY and the Media..

Channing Frye *has developed in to a good role with the help of Nash and Gortat, even though he never played for Dantoni*
Ariza
Darko
Jordan Hill
Nate Robinson
Cory Brewer

Dantoni was crying, we have no PG the whole year, while many of us here on the message boards were waiting for Lin to finally get a shot, while the rest of the players got a chance.
Lin was on the bench the whole time, but could not break out of "DANTONI's DOGHOUSE", yes it really exists, one of the reasons I strongly hate about him.
Marbury came in the camp, in great shape, and ready to reconcile with Dantoni in Phoenix, but instead he puts him in the dog house and we lose any trade value for him.

Dantoni's stubbornness, many inabilities: to adapt to new changes, to make adjustments, to hold his players and stars accountable, to develop his young players, and unable to handle the pressure of playing/coaching in New York. I think the years of constantly losing and having the Media rag on him took a big toll on him.
However, it was a big mistake to sign him in the first place, if we were going to rebuild, it just didn't make sense. He always tried to win versus developing his young prospects.

Great post. When I bring this stuff up I am told that I passionately hated the former coach. Well said and accurate.

Yup, on the money.

On what money?

Marbury came into physical shape, not mental.

Marbury came into shape as trade fodder. No takers.

Lin was on the roster for how long before he played? where was he in the dog house?

MDA is gone and the haters should be happy but get some accuracy on the past.

The players of value traded were often attached to contracts that were hard to trade.

We going off on Frye who was gone. Reezy who was traded by Isiah. Hill who for the 100th time was cap fodder. NO cap, no Melo. We crying over Nate? Darko?

You forgot the lament over AR!

Let the record of MDA stand as it was but get the roster construction down right.

We had David Lee as our center. It was a problem!

Some fans will sip on the MDA kool aid no matter what to no end. Even if we snip off the first 2 years due to "rebuilding", the last year and half of no adjustments, sticking\starting players even if they're playing bad (Toney Douglas\Landry Fields), reluctance to play players(Anthony Randolph, Timofey Mozgov, Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak), inability to coach defense (remember the constant switching the first half of the season everybody bitched about), inability to rein in or teach players(Shumpert shooting 20+ shots in the Memphis game), poor execution or poor play calling in end of game situations (Boston and Chicago game anyone?), and general lack of ability to motivate or hold players accountable(Melo and Amare). Just bizarre the amount of excuses his supporters have...

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

martin wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:What about the other 3 years? What a joke!

Chuck, if you can't put things into perspective, let's just stop this line of discussion.

Team was obviously removing decent players over the first 2 years to grab cap space. This has been noted and widely known forever.

So would you categorize D'Antoni's 3 1/2 seasons as Knicks coach a success or failure? Pretty simple question, no? All I keep hearing are excuses is we're rebuilding, clearing the cap for Lebron, Can't teach Nate how to play point, Duhon breaks down after how many games, don't play Marbury for whatever reason even to raise his value for trade bait, David Lee not a franchise player, can't play Jordan Hill/Corey Brewer/Timofey Mozgov/Jeremy Lin because they're not ready. Blah blah blah... Sticking to players too long, shortening rotations when he should expand, in game adjustments, End of game situations. Seriously, if you or I made this many excuses at our jobs we'd all be collecting unemployment.

Chuck Buck, is actually right, how many teams took our players, with little or not much value while in NY, and then develop in to good players and finding a role on a team?
Many were instinct, some needed more years to develop, while the players deserve some of the blame, possibly by unable to play under the pressure of NY and the Media..

Channing Frye *has developed in to a good role with the help of Nash and Gortat, even though he never played for Dantoni*
Ariza
Darko
Jordan Hill
Nate Robinson
Cory Brewer

Dantoni was crying, we have no PG the whole year, while many of us here on the message boards were waiting for Lin to finally get a shot, while the rest of the players got a chance.
Lin was on the bench the whole time, but could not break out of "DANTONI's DOGHOUSE", yes it really exists, one of the reasons I strongly hate about him.
Marbury came in the camp, in great shape, and ready to reconcile with Dantoni in Phoenix, but instead he puts him in the dog house and we lose any trade value for him.

Dantoni's stubbornness, many inabilities: to adapt to new changes, to make adjustments, to hold his players and stars accountable, to develop his young players, and unable to handle the pressure of playing/coaching in New York. I think the years of constantly losing and having the Media rag on him took a big toll on him.
However, it was a big mistake to sign him in the first place, if we were going to rebuild, it just didn't make sense. He always tried to win versus developing his young prospects.

Great post. When I bring this stuff up I am told that I passionately hated the former coach. Well said and accurate.

Yup, on the money.

On what money?

Marbury came into physical shape, not mental.

Marbury came into shape as trade fodder. No takers.

Lin was on the roster for how long before he played? where was he in the dog house?

MDA is gone and the haters should be happy but get some accuracy on the past.

The players of value traded were often attached to contracts that were hard to trade.

We going off on Frye who was gone. Reezy who was traded by Isiah. Hill who for the 100th time was cap fodder. NO cap, no Melo. We crying over Nate? Darko?

You forgot the lament over AR!

Let the record of MDA stand as it was but get the roster construction down right.

We had David Lee as our center. It was a problem!

Some fans will sip on the MDA kool aid no matter what to no end. Even if we snip off the first 2 years due to "rebuilding", the last year and half of no adjustments, sticking\starting players even if they're playing bad (Toney Douglas\Landry Fields), reluctance to play players(Anthony Randolph, Timofey Mozgov, Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak), inability to coach defense (remember the constant switching the first half of the season everybody bitched about), inability to rein in or teach players(Shumpert shooting 20+ shots in the Memphis game), poor execution or poor play calling in end of game situations (Boston and Chicago game anyone?), and general lack of ability to motivate or hold players accountable(Melo and Amare). Just bizarre the amount of excuses his supporters have...

Way too many holes to debate. The inaccuracies Speak for itself.

If you read into any attempt for accuracy as kool Aid than have at it.

Nobody said MDA did a great job. Often the circumstances are what they are. Blame is not the fix.

Blame is never the fix, and hopefully the Knicks off season adds much needed depth and/or key pieces, and a full training camp to start the ground running, unlike the start of this past season.

knicks1248 wrote:i won't make this into a mda thread, but i really don't think grunwald did anything special..The one thing he didn't bother to think about, was the fact the MDA's system could not work without a bonifide PG, and you traded him without a plan B at all, lin and davis were last options..

I think at the end of the day you look at the season as a whole. Maybe the GM in charge should get kudos for they way the team conducted themselves shifting from MDA to Woodson.

The GM was the GM during Linsanity.

The team rallied behind its new coach and made the playoffs.

At the end of the day the team is fantastically profitable and that also counts. The GM responsable for more than just the roster.

The knicks were a huge draw on the road. DOn't think toronto and other teams did not fill those arenas to see StarMelo.
They came to see Lin!