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With Chandler, Melo, and Stat probably only having 3 solid yrs left. I can see Knicks brass giving Nash the MLE.
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gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  11:09 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/11/2012  11:10 AM
Exactly nalod there are many options out there to backup Lin. Flynn, West, Kidd all can be had for cheap and are upgradeLs over bibby, davis & TD.
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Nalod
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5/11/2012  11:19 AM
Can Lin become Nash? Nash took a few years to develop.

I'd say Nash would have been almost automatic to come had SSOL been effective.

It do miss LIn penetration in the lane and opening it up for Melo and Stat.

It SHOULD work in theory.
gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  11:27 AM
Nash tooks years to develop. He was drafted with Kobe, AI,Marbles & Ray Allen but didnt do anything til the 2000s with Dirk. If Nash was drafted by the Knicks he would've been traded for Mike James mark my word. These same fans who are ready to give up on a 23yr old and media members too. And they say new york has the most sophisticated & intelligent fans & media HA!!
GustavBahler
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5/11/2012  11:28 AM
You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.
fishmike
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5/11/2012  11:32 AM
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call
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gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  11:34 AM
You are not taking into account that the minute he steps foot on the court he will hurt his back or tear his acl then be added to the long list of over the hill knicks signings to retire as a knick because of career ending injury. Because as I said before a 23yr has a season ending injury and he is back the following yr. A 40yr old has the same injury and his is forced to retire and collect his check from Dolan. Are we ignoring the fact that Nash has had back problems?
Nalod
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5/11/2012  11:37 AM
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

Thank you.

I have gone into my secret chamber and declared Nash a "StarPhuck".

I will grant you my reason.

If the team went to conf finals and lost, and the final piece was Nash and I think the east gets no better I go with it.

We have not found a formula that works with our "Big THree".

Thus, Nash is a starphuch. Its worsens when you give up on young guys.
Knixkik
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5/11/2012  11:39 AM
Only 3 years left? Melo will only be 31 in 3 years and Chandler shouldn't decline much as long as he can stay healthy. Knicks could easily get rid of Stoudemire at that point and build once more around Melo, Chandler, Lin, and Shumpert. Not much should change in 3 years.
RoyBatty
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5/11/2012  11:41 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/11/2012  11:43 AM
Unless we can get some certainty that Lin's knee is going to turn him into Brandon Roy, I say keep Lin. Like you guys I want NY to win a championship. But here's my take:.

Lin is going to be in his third year; normally it takes 5-7 years for players to find their real level. Lin will probably get better -- maybe not Nash or Paul -- but good enough to be competitive on any given day. If that works out, we will have a point guard that we developed (always a source of pride for me), who no one saw.

Melo has about 5 years more of effective basketball. Stat has a couple. Their contracts will expire just at the time Lin is peaking as a PG; so we have someone to build with even if our current crop of stars age.

So what we will get in NY is very competitive basketball for much of this decade, not like what we saw the last decade. Probably all the way into the ECF for most of those years if we get a healthy team into the playoffs. We got the bad draw this year on that count.

We reduce the probability of a bad team even with this set of players if we find a really good coach that can make Amare + Melo + Tyson work.

So I would rather that we get a good coach (to figure out Stat, Melo, etc) + Lin + healthy players.

And we aim to keep Shump and Novak.
gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  11:41 AM
Knixkik wrote:Only 3 years left? Melo will only be 31 in 3 years and Chandler shouldn't decline much as long as he can stay healthy. Knicks could easily get rid of Stoudemire at that point and build once more arouMelo, Chandler, Lin, and Shumpert. Not much should change in 3 years.

Exactly thank you Knixkik
gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  11:46 AM
Exactly Roy. Replace Lin with Nash and we will be back to square one signing other teams unwanted stars and trading for the next stephon marbury and steve francis and trading all our lottery picks for eddy curry. Not one homegrown talent to build the team around. Dolan loves it this way so watch what yall wish for!
GustavBahler
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5/11/2012  11:51 AM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call

You offer Nash the MLE and offer to sign Lin for less. Lin has a chance to learn from one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game and if he learns enough he takes over for Nash eventually. I don't consider it a given that he is the future and right now in the present Nash is a much better PG for the roster we have.
RoyBatty
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5/11/2012  11:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/11/2012  12:00 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call

You offer Nash the MLE and offer to sign Lin for less. Lin has a chance to learn from one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game and if he learns enough he takes over for Nash eventually. I don't consider it a given that he is the future and right now in the present Nash is a much better PG for the roster we have.


What if we can't make it work numbers-wise? That's the question right. We hope for a sunny day where both Lin and Nash can be accommodated financially, but assuming them as maximizing economic actors, we have to assume it might not be possible .

Who do we choose?
Bonn1997
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5/11/2012  11:59 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call

You offer Nash the MLE and offer to sign Lin for less. Lin has a chance to learn from one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game and if he learns enough he takes over for Nash eventually. I don't consider it a given that he is the future and right now in the present Nash is a much better PG for the roster we have.


That and a quarter will get him a gum ball. Lin is not a veteran who's earned tens of millions already. No way he will or should take a gigantic pay cut.
gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  12:05 PM
Good point new york fans are really delusional. If anything Lin takes a $1.5mil less to resign his buddy Novak who makes Lin better and increases his value and assists as Lin penetrates and dishes to an open Novak.
GustavBahler
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5/11/2012  12:14 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call

You offer Nash the MLE and offer to sign Lin for less. Lin has a chance to learn from one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game and if he learns enough he takes over for Nash eventually. I don't consider it a given that he is the future and right now in the present Nash is a much better PG for the roster we have.


That and a quarter will get him a gum ball. Lin is not a veteran who's earned tens of millions already. No way he will or should take a gigantic pay cut.

It might get him a gumball but it can also increase his effectiveness as a PG and long term increase his value. Lin is going to get his share of endorsements, worldwide, lets not act like his paycheck will be the only money he will be taking in. Lin will have much more exposure in NY even coming off the bench for a couple of years than he would possibly playing for a small market team.
gunsnewing
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5/11/2012  12:16 PM
Lebron had international opportunities in New York. You really thinks athletes are thinking about that when signing with the knicks
Bonn1997
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5/11/2012  12:17 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call

You offer Nash the MLE and offer to sign Lin for less. Lin has a chance to learn from one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game and if he learns enough he takes over for Nash eventually. I don't consider it a given that he is the future and right now in the present Nash is a much better PG for the roster we have.


That and a quarter will get him a gum ball. Lin is not a veteran who's earned tens of millions already. No way he will or should take a gigantic pay cut.

It might get him a gumball but it can also increase his effectiveness as a PG and long term increase his value. Lin is going to get his share of endorsements, worldwide, lets not act like his paycheck will be the only money he will be taking in. Lin will have much more exposure in NY even coming off the bench for a couple of years than he would possibly playing for a small market team.


The difference between the MLE and LLE is too huge though. No way he takes a 2 year, $5 mil offer (LLE) over a 5 year, $30 mil offer just to learn from the a great PG or just to some day increase his value. That's $25 mil in guaranteed money in a professional where you can have a career ending injury at any moment.
GustavBahler
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5/11/2012  12:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/11/2012  12:31 PM
RoyBatty wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:You guys are really fixated on Nash's age. Its not like we're talking about Nash being a long term solution. Saying that he's old over and over again won't change the fact that he is still one of the best PG's in the league, old or not.

Possibly giving the MLE to a guy still averaging almost 11 assists per game is not starphuching. Only Rondo has more assists and it takes him 5 more minutes per game to do it. Steve Francis was a starphuch, Nash isn't. He is still one of the best floor generals in the league.

Starphuch should apply to players who are getting paid more than they're worth, based on past success, to fill the seats, but I'll leave that up to Nalod.

Nash is a bargain if he were to accept the MLE. Probably won't but you never know.

the fixation is Nash vs Lin becaue you dont get both. So your picking 39yo over a 22 yo. Bad call

You offer Nash the MLE and offer to sign Lin for less. Lin has a chance to learn from one of the greatest PGs to ever play the game and if he learns enough he takes over for Nash eventually. I don't consider it a given that he is the future and right now in the present Nash is a much better PG for the roster we have.


What if we can't make it work numbers-wise? That's the question right. We hope for a sunny day where both Lin and Nash can be accommodated financially, but assuming them as maximizing economic actors, we have to assume it might not be possible .

Who do we choose?


I understand its a possibility that Lin could walk. My problem is that some posters (not necessarily you) are treating Lin like he is the second coming of Rondo based on Linsanity. Lin still has to develop.

What we need right now is a PG who can put Melo, Stat and everyone else, on the same page. If one of the greatest PGs ever is available for very little, and still playing at a high level, I think you have to go for it. I don't want to kick the can down the road any longer. To me penciling Lin is as the starter when his skills as PG aren't there yet is doing just that.
helloharv
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5/11/2012  12:23 PM
would love to have both but if I had to choose one, I think I am sticking with Lin due to his age
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With Chandler, Melo, and Stat probably only having 3 solid yrs left. I can see Knicks brass giving Nash the MLE.
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