yellowboy90 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Can we make it a colossal three team trade and include Houston? So they can get Pau and the Knicks can get Smith, Parsons, Scola, and etc. If the lAkers lose they will be clearing Cap space so they will not take Amar'e anyway.

Proposed on another Board: Would you trade Tyson Chandler for Gortat and a S&T with Nash?

If the Knicks could do that it would be amazing. I would be happy with Buddinger swapped in for Parsons also.

I meant Martin not Smith and I think Parson has a better upside and plays better defense. When Kobe gives you complements you have to be doing something right. But I am bias being a UF fan.

Also, if they make a trade I do not see it being for another big name. I think it has to be for some back up that has starting potential. How many teams identified Ryan Anderson as a starter. It shouldn't be about the name it should be about how they fit with Lin, SHump, Melo, and Chandler if you trade STAT.

crzymdups wrote:Gasol tonight: 23pts 17reb 6ast in a game 7. no team in their right mind would trade gasol for amar'e at this point.

Vmart wrote:Amare for Bargnani. Knicks need a stretch four and loosen the middle for Melo and Chandler.

Why would T dot make that trade?

RonRon wrote:Another horrible contract for another, Joe Johnson for Amare?
Joe Johnson has 1 extra year vs Amare and they both make the same...
Throw in ZaZa Puchula with Fields/Jerome Jordon or TD?

As ugly as Zaza's game is, it is quite effective and would be our back up center.
Although Kmart and Reggie Evans are the PF for veteran minimum candidates to replace Amare.

Can we even get an expiring contract like Rashard Lewis do be our "stretch 4"?
Give up next year, for the better of the future?

this is a great deal. put johnson at 3 once shump is healthy, and force melo down in the post. go all defense around the scoring combo of melo and johnson, a true inside/outside versatile and potent offensive game.

Amare's deal is uninsured and he is in decline and but so is Joe Johnson so we have a chance.

Tyson is no doubt our best center defensively but Amare excels in scoring when he has the edge playing PF.
He has heart, good worth ethic, and is quite smart.
But he has no post game, with no threat shooting the basketball as well.
I like what he brings and he even admitted he has to improve his offense this summer.
He has always been a candidate for DPY, while earning his first one as a Knick.
With that said, he does have good value but would again leave us a big whole to cover what he brings.
I think Iman, TC, with another 1-2 good defenders, can make us a top defensive team, like the Bulls.
Players with the skills/body like Mahimi, Brandon Wright, Taj Gibson, Tony Allen, Ariza, James Johnson, even Gaines with Iman and TC...
Not all of these type of players make good MLE $, but we need to establish this identity.
Like Dallas and Denver we have to sign some cost efficient players to 2-3 year deals with upside, rolling the dice.
So when we have the MLE or cap space to use, we can finish up with the Gibsons or younger versions of Battier/Tony Allen/Ariza/Ak47...
It hurts that Iman won't be able to develop his game this summer, especially with that worth ethic.

Would Amare ever be a decent rebounder, defensive player, shot blocking presence, box out effectively, and ever develop a post move?
Probably not but he just needs to find the right team compliment each other.
Amare ,ideally, needs good ball movement, a good PG to facilitate with penetration, and be the alpha dog to put up "all star" stats.
It hurts when both our "biggs" are no post threats and Amare doesn't hit the 17 footer consistently when PF defends him.
He did try to reduce his role, listen to the coach, and sacrificed his "stats" for the better of Melo, TC, and the Knicks.
Late this year, his athleticism did seem to improve much closer to his old self, unfortunately, so did his defense/rebounding.
In some sense, I think he is similar to Zach Randolph, meaning he is better than the value we can get for him under the right system/team.
I am quite sick of his mouth, while not being able to back it up.
Whether on the court, pounding his chest like hes the man after a dunk, or after the game, he sparks our opponents up to want to beat us even more.
Playing in NY is tough enough, teams/players/coaches all know the media attention we get.
They rarely do a "no show" and usually elevate their games/performances.
I would prefer trading Amare, even though he would yield the worse offer.

Melo, like KG or Pau Gasol, many players lose their speed, quickness, as they get older in the league.
KG and Pau were known to be at least good PF's in their prime, but they are suited to play the C position now vs the PF.
This is true for many players and I think Melo has the ability to play the PF much more to the team and his advantage.
He is the only true threat that has the ability to post up but can not get good position with TC and Amare on the floor together.
However, he probably has the most value and can bring us the best offers in return from the league.

It has to be done, these 3 do not work well together, and limit our ability to acquire real talent.
Someone has to go, I am AT LEAST hoping for Amare for an expiring *Rashard Lewis*

At this stage, I hope we keep Fields, praying he improves his shot, but he is SF which thrives on ball movement, uptempo pace, and a team concept.
Like TD, not a PG/facilitator, I think Fields is not a SG and is a SF.
Given our inability to acquire talent and we have his early bird rights, it would be a nice risk/reward, to give him a contract similar to Corey Brewer.
He improved his handling and penetration a lot from last year, if he can just shoot the wide open 3pointer he would be a steal.
I do think someone like Shane Battier, Tony Allen, even Sefelosha are all better at what they do....
PLAYING DEFENSE, understanding their roles, hitting the 3pointer when open, and applying pressure.
much better but Fields still has room to improve and hasn't peaked yet.

AnubisADL wrote:I dont see them trading Joe Johnson unless they get a SG in return. We would need a third team.

Amare's deal is uninsured and he is in decline and but so is Joe Johnson so we have a chance.

Possibly but who really wants to pay Joe Johnson max aside from the Hawks and Knicks?
He has 1 less year vs Amare and could physically decline within 2years a lot more than he already is showing.
I suppose it would much easier to trade Al Horford and/or Josh Smith after this move.
With Jeff Teague, at least Stat gets a PG that can penetrate.

Marvin Williams is another bad contract with 2 more years, next year at 8.3m and player option at 7.5 after.
I suggested taking back ZaZa's contract because they have 61m in salary next year tied to 6 players only.
Unfortunately they do not generate revenue like MSG does, so Joe Johnson likely has best years past him already, they can save $ and keep 1 out of

Al Horford
Josh Smith

I think they both decent contracts, each worthy of at least 1 1st round pick, i think maybe even more.
Possibly 2 draft picks or/and decent players in return.
Look at what Nets gave up for Gerrald Wallace...

We are not getting Pau Gasol or would we get the same return Houston gave for him either, it just isn't happening, not with the way this season played out.
If Amare was Amare b4 Melo came over, it is a very possible, but no one is going to offer to buy high for Amare when he is producing low.
I don't think Amare is done, the system, players, chemistry, and surrounding changed for him.
He is what he is, a scoring PF/C, he just doesn't mesh with what we have right now.
Like Zach Randolph, he was able to find a center that fit his skills, with the right team.
I am not saying he is the same player 20pts 10rbs that Zbo was, but he can be much closer to what he was when he first signed here with the right team....
Unfortunately, the biggest risk is an uninsured contract, and the way he didn't produce since Melo got here.
But his uninsured contract wouldn't even be an issue had continued his pace when he first signed here, even given the injury during last years playoffs.
It is a gamble on New York's side as well, Joe Johnson could be in huge decline, after all, he is older and played more years than Amare.

or even trade both and do a semi rebuild with draft picks, with cap space, to go with Amare and Teague.
Amare is bad but Joe Johnson's contract is paying him even more...
Hawks buy time to let Teague fully concentrate on developing and they roll the dice with Amare to pair up, while capable of trading their own 2 talents at good/fair returns.
Like Allen Iverson vs AI during his era ended with Philly...

I think they both decent contracts, each worthy of at least 1 1st round pick, i think maybe even more. Possibly 2 draft picks or/and decent players in return.
Look at what Nets gave up for Gerrald Wallace...

According to this site, Amare's final year isn't fully guaranteed/has an early termination like Billups???

http://www.hoopsworld.com/new-york-knicks-team-salary

New York Knicks Team Salary

Key: N = non-guaranteed; Q = Qualifying Offer; E = Early Termination Option; P = Player Option; T = Team Option
Name 2011-12 2012-13 2013-14 2014-15 2015-16
TOTAL $63,978,468 $62,954,102 $58,741,427 $63,251,418 $0
Carmelo Anthony $18,518,574 $19,887,905 $21,257,236 $22,626,567-E
Amar'e Stoudemire $18,217,705 $19,948,799 $21,679,893 $23,410,988-E
Tyson Chandler $13,107,837 $13,604,188 $14,100,538 $14,596,888
Renaldo Balkman* $1,675,000 $1,675,000
Iman Shumpert $1,563,120 $1,633,440 $1,703,760-T $2,616,975-T Q-$3,695,169
J.R. Smith $1,411,290 $2,612,500-P
Mike Bibby $1,325,181
Baron Davis $1,325,181
Jared Jeffries $1,229,255
Toney Douglas $1,145,640 $2,067,880 Q-$3,101,820
Steve Novak $992,680
Bill Walker* $916,100
Landry Fields $762,195
Jeremy Lin $762,195
Jerome Jordan $473,604 $762,195-N
Josh Harrellson $473,604 $762,195-N
Dan Gadzuric $79,307

* No Longer With Team

Renaldo Balkman was waived on 2/17/12.

J.R. Smith was signed on 2/17/12.

Bill Walker was waived on 4/20/12.

Dan Gadzuric was signed on 4/20/12.

Qualifying offers do not count towards the total team salary for that season and are informational only.

New York Knicks Salary Cap Holds
Name 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
TOTAL $5,980,723 $11,368,476 $0 $78,085,689 $0
Dan Gadzuric $854,389
Mike Bibby $854,389
Baron Davis $854,389
Jared Jeffries $854,389
Steve Novak $854,389
Landry Fields $854,389
Jeremy Lin $854,389
Toney Douglas $6,203,640
J.R. Smith $3,396,250
Jerome Jordan $884,293
Josh Harrellson $884,293
Tyson Chandler $21,895,332
Amar'e Stoudemire $24,581,537
Carmelo Anthony $23,757,895
Iman Shumpert $7,850,925

What is a cap hold? A cap hold is the amount of space a free agent counts towards a team’s cap. These “cap holds” factor in when a team signs free agents. If they didn’t exist, a team could use their cap space to sign other free agents until the space was gone, and then re-sign their own free agents using the Bird exception. A cap hold cannot exceed the maximum contract offer that player can receive on the open market (as defined by years of experience – indicated in the table above by MAX followed by the years of experience). The cap hold disappears if the team renounces their own free agent, that free agent signs with a new team, or re-signs with the same team.