firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I like Fields but keeping Novak is more important than keeping him but we probably don't have the money to do it.

Man, if we didn't have Amare, we'd have enough money to re-sign Lin, Novak, and Fields and add one more strong FA.

Man, wtf are you talking about?! The next time you fake rationality in one of your "totally unbiased" small sample size posts ill remind you of this post. Joke.

Gee, I definitely want to pay a guy 20 mill per who has consistent back problems with his health way up in the air. But oh yeah, he's a SUPERSTAR. Not a major liability on d at all. My bad I forgot. Ok time to pray to the guy because he was the first major free agent to sign here.

This post qualifies you as a rationality-faker too!

It frustrates me greatly that I have to respond to this, but here goes.

One of the most laughable, annoying and utterly irrational things that an NBA fan with a personal agenda can do is make the claim that, had their team done everything the same over a period of time except for item X, then things would have been the same , except for current situation Y.

So Mr Bonn, in that excellent, scientifically researched, rationality-based way that we have grown to love over the years has stated the following:

If: In 2010, we hadn't signed Amar'e Stoudemire...

Then: In 2012, we would have enough money to resign Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Landry Fields and "one more strong FA".

Now, of course the sheer number of rational things that this absurd claim rides roughshod over are far too numerous for me to mention here or at least to have noticed but I'll try and mention a few.

1. In 2010, there was a league requirement to spend at least 75% of the slalary cap.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Minimum team salary

• 2005 CBA: Teams must spend at least 75 percent of the salary cap.

• 2011 CBA: Teams must spend at least 85 percent of the cap in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and at least 90 percent of the cap in later years of the agreement.

• Who benefits? The players. Although it was once rare for teams to be below the salary cap, it became more common in the latter years of the 2005 agreement as teams struggled to cope with financial markets. For example, the Sacramento Kings traded for Marquis Daniels at the 2011 trade deadline because their payroll was below the 75 percent minimum. By raising the salary floor, teams are required to spend more money on player salaries.

The higher salary floor could also affect teams' amnesty decisions. Teams might decide to hang on to high-salaried players rather than amnesty them in order to meet the new minimum team salary requirements.

And, as you can see above, that requirement went up to 85% this season and 90% next season. So, in 2010-2011, the New York Knicks salary read as follows:

2010-11 New York Knicks Salaries
PLAYER SALARY POSITION
Amar'e Stoudemire $16,500,000 Forward
Eddy Curry $11,276,863 Center
Raymond Felton $7,700,000 Guard
Ronny Turiaf $4,200,000 Center
Danilo Gallinari $3,304,560 Forward
Kelenna Azubuike $3,300,000 Forward
Wilson Chandler $2,130,482 Forward
Anthony Randolph $1,965,720 Forward
Roger Mason Jr. $1,400,000 Guard
Toney Douglas $1,071,000 Guard
Shawne Williams $885,120 Forward
Bill Walker $854,389 Guard

As you will see, this is indeed a small sample size of NYK 2011 salary, but its the best we could do at short notice. Sorry.

So, in 2011, the Knicks spent $53,703,041 of salary. Without Amar'e Stoudemire, the Knicks would have spent $37,213,014. The salary cap in 2010-11 was $58.04m. As the above quote suggests, the Knicks had to spend just over $43.5m to fulfil their obligations under the CBA.

The list of available free agents bck in 2010 can be seen here: http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2010/. It includes such shining lights as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Dirk Nowitzki, Kwame Brown, Channing Frye, Yao Ming and of course, Randolph Morris. Most of this list resigned with their teams and/or signed with Miami. Now as we can see, the Knicks had to spend just over $6.5m back in 2010. So they had to sign someone. Maybe they resigned Channing Frye? Who knows. Lets say that the Knicks were gifted the great gift of prescience and signed the only PF on that list that still has any value and that had any probability of moving, namely Luis Scola. Luis Scola signed a 5 year, 47m contract with his old team, paying him $7.75m in 2010. This would have just gotten the Knicks over the 75% requirement, so happy happy days. Of course, at this point we are living in make-believe Bonn world so anything is possible but I would point out that Luis Scola is 2 years older than Amar'e Stoudemire and in 2010-11 averaged 18.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 0.6 bpg. This was his best season in the league. Amar'e Stoudemire averaged 25.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 1.9 bpg in 2010-11. This was not his best season in the league.

The Knicks would have had to spend $49.3m in 2011-12 to fulfil CBA requirements and, under current cap figures, $52.4m this year. So the Knicks would have needed to sign someone else this year as well. I could go into who that person may have been but I have a life.

This simply to point out the fallacy of saying no Amar'e = yay Novak!!

2. Carmelo Anthony.

I could go into detail, but Ill leave you to sell the NY Knicks dream of Amir Johnson, Patrick O'Bryant and Michael Redd to Carmelo Anthony. Should be a presentation, incorporating Im sure a great deal of data, massive sample sizes and dreams of future domination. See Nets, NJ for how that works out.

3. Tyson Chandler.

See above.

4. Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrelson.

Don't forget, the Knicks spent 2010 living on the back of the future HOF that is Luis Scola. Presumably, their win percentage was much higher and their draft spot much lower. So no Iman Shumpert then.

5. Jeremy Lin.

Also dont forget, Tyson Chandler hasn't come to NY in make-believe Bonn world, so Chauncey Billups is still on the team (we probably amnestied someone, probably Scola). So, no Lin then? But wait, Chauncey is injured for the year, we must have signed someone!! Yes!! And in make-believe Bonn world, we still signed Jeremy Lin, because thats just how Bonn rolls.

6. Steve Novak.

Steve Novak? Who is this Steve Novak you speak of? We have Michael Redd and Travis Outlaw, why would we have signed Steve Novak?

7. J.R. Smith

In make-believe Bonn world, we never signed J.R, Smith as he's a cancer in the lockerroom. I know, we really did, but thats just the way I roll.

8. Mike D'Antoni

In MBBW, MDA has done a stellar job and doesnt even want J.R. Smith back. So there.

9. Darius Songaila

I know what youre think, Darius who? Ah, but you see in this alternative reality, Songaila (or Pop Song as the kids like to call him nowadays) stuck with a team, oh lets call them the NJ Nets and became an overnight sensation after averaging 27.8ppg, 15.4rpg, 3.1bpg, 5apg over 7 games. D-Song is the current reigning MVP with the NBA Champion Nets, but the Knicks are pretty certain they can prise him away this year with all their cap space. What cap space? Oh, we traded Carmelo for Gerald Wallace and Toney Douglas for Kyrie Irving and look forward to next years no. 1 pick. Its all about 2012 free agency, as the papers are saying.

10.Isiah Thomas

The current Knicks GM is considering retirement, but after public demonstrations and massive fan support, has agreed to stay on another year to captain his ship once more.

11. NBA draft 2012. We traded C.J. Watson to the Bobcats for their pick and won the draft. Who needs Steve Novak anyway?

As you can see above, the utter ignorance of saying "Man if we didn't have Amar'e we could sign....." is massive and astounding. It matters not a jot whether you would want Amar'e on this team, whether he's going to be great or whether hes going to be washed up and broken down after this year. To say if we didnt have Amare we could sign player X is so astonishingly dumb that I now know what a mind boggle feels like (kinda cool, like as if my cerebellum was wind-surfing).

Anyway, thats my rant over. I'll just end on a warning note to those fresh young unembittered new posters out there. Beware the poster who fakes rationality and scientific reason. Some people rant and hate, but at least you see their colours. But those who dress it up to try and hide their real intentions while innocently quoting scientifically established sample sizes and utterly necessary amounts of clutchness, they are more full of Shit than most.

Bonn1997 wrote:I'll need the cliffsnotes version if you want my comments on most of what you wrote. Note, however, that my earlier comment does not have to refer solely to not signing Amare. It could entail using the Amensty on him or having traded him for an ending contract too.

Oh and your cunning little backtrack there has no impact on the bulk of my post. But then, you wouldnt know that, not having read it and all.

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I like Fields but keeping Novak is more important than keeping him but we probably don't have the money to do it.

Man, if we didn't have Amare, we'd have enough money to re-sign Lin, Novak, and Fields and add one more strong FA.

Man, wtf are you talking about?! The next time you fake rationality in one of your "totally unbiased" small sample size posts ill remind you of this post. Joke.

Gee, I definitely want to pay a guy 20 mill per who has consistent back problems with his health way up in the air. But oh yeah, he's a SUPERSTAR. Not a major liability on d at all. My bad I forgot. Ok time to pray to the guy because he was the first major free agent to sign here.

This post qualifies you as a rationality-faker too!

It frustrates me greatly that I have to respond to this, but here goes.

One of the most laughable, annoying and utterly irrational things that an NBA fan with a personal agenda can do is make the claim that, had their team done everything the same over a period of time except for item X, then things would have been the same , except for current situation Y.

So Mr Bonn, in that excellent, scientifically researched, rationality-based way that we have grown to love over the years has stated the following:

If: In 2010, we hadn't signed Amar'e Stoudemire...

Then: In 2012, we would have enough money to resign Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Landry Fields and "one more strong FA".

Now, of course the sheer number of rational things that this absurd claim rides roughshod over are far too numerous for me to mention here or even to have noticed but I'll try and mention a few.

1. In 2010, there was a league requirement to spend at least 75% of the slalary cap.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Minimum team salary

• 2005 CBA: Teams must spend at least 75 percent of the salary cap.

• 2011 CBA: Teams must spend at least 85 percent of the cap in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and at least 90 percent of the cap in later years of the agreement.

• Who benefits? The players. Although it was once rare for teams to be below the salary cap, it became more common in the latter years of the 2005 agreement as teams struggled to cope with financial markets. For example, the Sacramento Kings traded for Marquis Daniels at the 2011 trade deadline because their payroll was below the 75 percent minimum. By raising the salary floor, teams are required to spend more money on player salaries.

The higher salary floor could also affect teams' amnesty decisions. Teams might decide to hang on to high-salaried players rather than amnesty them in order to meet the new minimum team salary requirements.

And, as you can see above, that requirement went up to 85% this season and 90% next season. So, in 2010-2011, the New York Knicks salary read as follows:

2010-11 New York Knicks Salaries
PLAYER SALARY POSITION
Amar'e Stoudemire $16,500,000 Forward
Eddy Curry $11,276,863 Center
Raymond Felton $7,700,000 Guard
Ronny Turiaf $4,200,000 Center
Danilo Gallinari $3,304,560 Forward
Kelenna Azubuike $3,300,000 Forward
Wilson Chandler $2,130,482 Forward
Anthony Randolph $1,965,720 Forward
Roger Mason Jr. $1,400,000 Guard
Toney Douglas $1,071,000 Guard
Shawne Williams $885,120 Forward
Bill Walker $854,389 Guard

As you will see, this is indeed a small sample size of NYK 2011 salary, but its the best we could do at short notice. Sorry.

So, in 2011, the Knicks spent $53,703,041 of salary. Without Amar'e Stoudemire, the Knicks would have spent $37,213,014. The salary cap in 2010-11 was $58.04m. As the above quote suggests, the Knicks had to spend just over $43.5m to fulfil their obligations under the CBA.

The list of available free agents bck in 2010 can be seen here: http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2010/. It includes such shining lights as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Dirk Nowitzki, Kwame Brown, Channing Frye, Yao Ming and of course, Randolph Morris. Most of this list resigned with their teams and/or signed with Miami. Now as we can see, the Knicks had to spend just over $6.5m back in 2010. So they had to sign someone. Maybe they resigned Channing Frye? Who knows. Lets say that the Knicks were gifted the great gift of prescience and signed the only PF on that list that still has any value and that had any probability of moving, namely Luis Scola. Luis Scola signed a 5 year, 47m contract with his old team, paying him $7.75m in 2010. This would have just gotten the Knicks over the 75% requirement, so happy happy days. Of course, at this point we are living in make-believe Bonn world so anything is possible but I would point out that Luis Scola is 2 years older than Amar'e Stoudemire and in 2010-11 averaged 18.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 0.6 bpg. This was his best season in the league. Amar'e Stoudemire averaged 25.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 1.9 bpg in 2010-11. This was not his best season in the league.

The Knicks would have had to spend $49.3m in 2011-12 to fulfil CBA requirements and, under current cap figures, $52.4m this year. So the Knicks would have needed to sign someone else this year as well. I could go into who that person may have been but I have a life.

This simply to point out the fallacy of saying no Amar'e = yay Novak!!

2. Carmelo Anthony.

I could go into detail, but Ill leave you to sell the NY Knicks dream of Amir Johnson, Patrick O'Bryant and Michael Redd to Carmelo Anthony. Should be a presentation, incorporating Im sure a great deal of data, massive sample sizes and dreams of future domination. See Nets, NJ for how that works out.

3. Tyson Chandler.

See above.

4. Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrelson.

Don't forget, the Knicks spent 2010 living on the back of the future HOF that is Luis Scola. Presumably, their win percentage was much higher and their draft spot much lower. So no Iman Shumpert then.

5. Jeremy Lin.

Also dont forget, Tyson Chandler hasn't come to NY in make-believe Bonn world, so Chauncey Billups is still on the team (we probably amnestied someone, probably Scola). So, no Lin then? But wait, Chauncey is injured for the year, we must have signed someone!! Yes!! And in make-believe Bonn world, we still signed Jeremy Lin, because thats just how Bonn rolls.

6. Steve Novak.

Steve Novak? Who is this Steve Novak you speak of? We have Michael Redd and Travis Outlaw, why would we have signed Steve Novak?

7. J.R. Smith

In make-believe Bonn world, we never signed J.R, Smith as he's a cancer in the lockerroom. I know, we really did, but thats just the way I roll.

8. Mike D'Antoni

In MBBW, MDA has done a stellar job and doesnt even want J.R. Smith back. So there.

9. Darius Songaila

I know what youre think, Darius who? Ah, but you see in this alternative reality, Songaila (or Pop Song as the kids like to call him nowadays) stuck with a team, oh lets call them the NJ Nets and became an overnight sensation after averaging 27.8ppg, 15.4rpg, 3.1bpg, 5apg over 7 games. D-Song is the current reigning MVP with the NBA Champion Nets, but the Knicks are pretty certain they can prise him away this year with all their cap space. What cap space? Oh, we traded Carmelo for Gerald Wallace and Toney Douglas for Kyrie Irving and look forward to next years no. 1 pick. Its all about 2012 free agency, as the papers are saying.

10.Isiah Thomas

The current Knicks GM is considering retirement, but after public demonstrations and massive fan support, has agreed to stay on another year to captain his ship once more.

11. NBA draft 2012. We traded C.J. Watson to the Bobcats for their pick and won the draft. Who needs Steve Novak anyway?

As you can see above, the utter ignorance of saying "Man if we didn't have Amar'e we could sign....." is massive and astounding. It matters not a jot whether you would want Amar'e on this team, whether he's going to be great or whether hes going to be washed up and broken down after this year. To say if we didnt have Amare we could sign player X is so astonishingly dumb that I now know what a mind boggle feels like (kinda cool, like as if my cerebellum was wind-surfing).

Anyway, thats my rant over. I'll just end on a warning note to those fresh young unembittered new posters out there. Beware the poster who fakes rationality and scientific reason. Some people rant and hate, but at least you see their colours. But those who dress it up to try and hide their real intentions while innocently quoting scientifically established sample sizes and utterly necessary amounts of clutchness, they are more full of Shit than most.

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I like Fields but keeping Novak is more important than keeping him but we probably don't have the money to do it.

Man, if we didn't have Amare, we'd have enough money to re-sign Lin, Novak, and Fields and add one more strong FA.

Man, wtf are you talking about?! The next time you fake rationality in one of your "totally unbiased" small sample size posts ill remind you of this post. Joke.

Gee, I definitely want to pay a guy 20 mill per who has consistent back problems with his health way up in the air. But oh yeah, he's a SUPERSTAR. Not a major liability on d at all. My bad I forgot. Ok time to pray to the guy because he was the first major free agent to sign here.

This post qualifies you as a rationality-faker too!

It frustrates me greatly that I have to respond to this, but here goes.

One of the most laughable, annoying and utterly irrational things that an NBA fan with a personal agenda can do is make the claim that, had their team done everything the same over a period of time except for item X, then things would have been the same , except for current situation Y.

So Mr Bonn, in that excellent, scientifically researched, rationality-based way that we have grown to love over the years has stated the following:

If: In 2010, we hadn't signed Amar'e Stoudemire...

Then: In 2012, we would have enough money to resign Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Landry Fields and "one more strong FA".

Now, of course the sheer number of rational things that this absurd claim rides roughshod over are far too numerous for me to mention here or even to have noticed but I'll try and mention a few.

1. In 2010, there was a league requirement to spend at least 75% of the slalary cap.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Minimum team salary

• 2005 CBA: Teams must spend at least 75 percent of the salary cap.

• 2011 CBA: Teams must spend at least 85 percent of the cap in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and at least 90 percent of the cap in later years of the agreement.

• Who benefits? The players. Although it was once rare for teams to be below the salary cap, it became more common in the latter years of the 2005 agreement as teams struggled to cope with financial markets. For example, the Sacramento Kings traded for Marquis Daniels at the 2011 trade deadline because their payroll was below the 75 percent minimum. By raising the salary floor, teams are required to spend more money on player salaries.

The higher salary floor could also affect teams' amnesty decisions. Teams might decide to hang on to high-salaried players rather than amnesty them in order to meet the new minimum team salary requirements.

And, as you can see above, that requirement went up to 85% this season and 90% next season. So, in 2010-2011, the New York Knicks salary read as follows:

2010-11 New York Knicks Salaries
PLAYER SALARY POSITION
Amar'e Stoudemire $16,500,000 Forward
Eddy Curry $11,276,863 Center
Raymond Felton $7,700,000 Guard
Ronny Turiaf $4,200,000 Center
Danilo Gallinari $3,304,560 Forward
Kelenna Azubuike $3,300,000 Forward
Wilson Chandler $2,130,482 Forward
Anthony Randolph $1,965,720 Forward
Roger Mason Jr. $1,400,000 Guard
Toney Douglas $1,071,000 Guard
Shawne Williams $885,120 Forward
Bill Walker $854,389 Guard

As you will see, this is indeed a small sample size of NYK 2011 salary, but its the best we could do at short notice. Sorry.

So, in 2011, the Knicks spent $53,703,041 of salary. Without Amar'e Stoudemire, the Knicks would have spent $37,213,014. The salary cap in 2010-11 was $58.04m. As the above quote suggests, the Knicks had to spend just over $43.5m to fulfil their obligations under the CBA.

The list of available free agents bck in 2010 can be seen here: http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2010/. It includes such shining lights as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Dirk Nowitzki, Kwame Brown, Channing Frye, Yao Ming and of course, Randolph Morris. Most of this list resigned with their teams and/or signed with Miami. Now as we can see, the Knicks had to spend just over $6.5m back in 2010. So they had to sign someone. Maybe they resigned Channing Frye? Who knows. Lets say that the Knicks were gifted the great gift of prescience and signed the only PF on that list that still has any value and that had any probability of moving, namely Luis Scola. Luis Scola signed a 5 year, 47m contract with his old team, paying him $7.75m in 2010. This would have just gotten the Knicks over the 75% requirement, so happy happy days. Of course, at this point we are living in make-believe Bonn world so anything is possible but I would point out that Luis Scola is 2 years older than Amar'e Stoudemire and in 2010-11 averaged 18.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 0.6 bpg. This was his best season in the league. Amar'e Stoudemire averaged 25.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 1.9 bpg in 2010-11. This was not his best season in the league.

The Knicks would have had to spend $49.3m in 2011-12 to fulfil CBA requirements and, under current cap figures, $52.4m this year. So the Knicks would have needed to sign someone else this year as well. I could go into who that person may have been but I have a life.

This simply to point out the fallacy of saying no Amar'e = yay Novak!!

2. Carmelo Anthony.

I could go into detail, but Ill leave you to sell the NY Knicks dream of Amir Johnson, Patrick O'Bryant and Michael Redd to Carmelo Anthony. Should be a presentation, incorporating Im sure a great deal of data, massive sample sizes and dreams of future domination. See Nets, NJ for how that works out.

3. Tyson Chandler.

See above.

4. Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrelson.

Don't forget, the Knicks spent 2010 living on the back of the future HOF that is Luis Scola. Presumably, their win percentage was much higher and their draft spot much lower. So no Iman Shumpert then.

5. Jeremy Lin.

Also dont forget, Tyson Chandler hasn't come to NY in make-believe Bonn world, so Chauncey Billups is still on the team (we probably amnestied someone, probably Scola). So, no Lin then? But wait, Chauncey is injured for the year, we must have signed someone!! Yes!! And in make-believe Bonn world, we still signed Jeremy Lin, because thats just how Bonn rolls.

6. Steve Novak.

Steve Novak? Who is this Steve Novak you speak of? We have Michael Redd and Travis Outlaw, why would we have signed Steve Novak?

7. J.R. Smith

In make-believe Bonn world, we never signed J.R, Smith as he's a cancer in the lockerroom. I know, we really did, but thats just the way I roll.

8. Mike D'Antoni

In MBBW, MDA has done a stellar job and doesnt even want J.R. Smith back. So there.

9. Darius Songaila

I know what youre think, Darius who? Ah, but you see in this alternative reality, Songaila (or Pop Song as the kids like to call him nowadays) stuck with a team, oh lets call them the NJ Nets and became an overnight sensation after averaging 27.8ppg, 15.4rpg, 3.1bpg, 5apg over 7 games. D-Song is the current reigning MVP with the NBA Champion Nets, but the Knicks are pretty certain they can prise him away this year with all their cap space. What cap space? Oh, we traded Carmelo for Gerald Wallace and Toney Douglas for Kyrie Irving and look forward to next years no. 1 pick. Its all about 2012 free agency, as the papers are saying.

10.Isiah Thomas

The current Knicks GM is considering retirement, but after public demonstrations and massive fan support, has agreed to stay on another year to captain his ship once more.

11. NBA draft 2012. We traded C.J. Watson to the Bobcats for their pick and won the draft. Who needs Steve Novak anyway?

As you can see above, the utter ignorance of saying "Man if we didn't have Amar'e we could sign....." is massive and astounding. It matters not a jot whether you would want Amar'e on this team, whether he's going to be great or whether hes going to be washed up and broken down after this year. To say if we didnt have Amare we could sign player X is so astonishingly dumb that I now know what a mind boggle feels like (kinda cool, like as if my cerebellum was wind-surfing).

Anyway, thats my rant over. I'll just end on a warning note to those fresh young unembittered new posters out there. Beware the poster who fakes rationality and scientific reason. Some people rant and hate, but at least you see their colours. But those who dress it up to try and hide their real intentions while innocently quoting scientifically established sample sizes and utterly necessary amounts of clutchness, they are more full of Shit than most.

Wow, you have taken trolling to whole new level. So Bonn is agenda driven and you are not? You spend at least half an hour taking his comment out of context a building a conspiracy theory about Bonn because you seriously lack any bias and agenda?

"Fake rationality"? Because he doesn't jump to new conclusion after every 5 game streak? Who died and appointed you judge of rationality?

All you can do is mount personal attacks or insults on people to "prove" your position. And now you have half a dozen other trolls that agree with you so you must really be right! When was the last time any of you trolls posted something that wasn't a dig at another poster or the last coach or a blind referendum on Melo's godlike status?

Martin, can we have a "Ultimate Horse$h!t" section for this forum?

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tj23 wrote:

firefly wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I like Fields but keeping Novak is more important than keeping him but we probably don't have the money to do it.

Man, if we didn't have Amare, we'd have enough money to re-sign Lin, Novak, and Fields and add one more strong FA.

Man, wtf are you talking about?! The next time you fake rationality in one of your "totally unbiased" small sample size posts ill remind you of this post. Joke.

Gee, I definitely want to pay a guy 20 mill per who has consistent back problems with his health way up in the air. But oh yeah, he's a SUPERSTAR. Not a major liability on d at all. My bad I forgot. Ok time to pray to the guy because he was the first major free agent to sign here.

This post qualifies you as a rationality-faker too!

It frustrates me greatly that I have to respond to this, but here goes.

One of the most laughable, annoying and utterly irrational things that an NBA fan with a personal agenda can do is make the claim that, had their team done everything the same over a period of time except for item X, then things would have been the same , except for current situation Y.

So Mr Bonn, in that excellent, scientifically researched, rationality-based way that we have grown to love over the years has stated the following:

If: In 2010, we hadn't signed Amar'e Stoudemire...

Then: In 2012, we would have enough money to resign Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Landry Fields and "one more strong FA".

Now, of course the sheer number of rational things that this absurd claim rides roughshod over are far too numerous for me to mention here or even to have noticed but I'll try and mention a few.

1. In 2010, there was a league requirement to spend at least 75% of the slalary cap.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/CBA-111128/how-new-nba-deal-compares-last-one

Minimum team salary

• 2005 CBA: Teams must spend at least 75 percent of the salary cap.

• 2011 CBA: Teams must spend at least 85 percent of the cap in 2011-12 and 2012-13, and at least 90 percent of the cap in later years of the agreement.

• Who benefits? The players. Although it was once rare for teams to be below the salary cap, it became more common in the latter years of the 2005 agreement as teams struggled to cope with financial markets. For example, the Sacramento Kings traded for Marquis Daniels at the 2011 trade deadline because their payroll was below the 75 percent minimum. By raising the salary floor, teams are required to spend more money on player salaries.

The higher salary floor could also affect teams' amnesty decisions. Teams might decide to hang on to high-salaried players rather than amnesty them in order to meet the new minimum team salary requirements.

And, as you can see above, that requirement went up to 85% this season and 90% next season. So, in 2010-2011, the New York Knicks salary read as follows:

2010-11 New York Knicks Salaries
PLAYER SALARY POSITION
Amar'e Stoudemire $16,500,000 Forward
Eddy Curry $11,276,863 Center
Raymond Felton $7,700,000 Guard
Ronny Turiaf $4,200,000 Center
Danilo Gallinari $3,304,560 Forward
Kelenna Azubuike $3,300,000 Forward
Wilson Chandler $2,130,482 Forward
Anthony Randolph $1,965,720 Forward
Roger Mason Jr. $1,400,000 Guard
Toney Douglas $1,071,000 Guard
Shawne Williams $885,120 Forward
Bill Walker $854,389 Guard

As you will see, this is indeed a small sample size of NYK 2011 salary, but its the best we could do at short notice. Sorry.

So, in 2011, the Knicks spent $53,703,041 of salary. Without Amar'e Stoudemire, the Knicks would have spent $37,213,014. The salary cap in 2010-11 was $58.04m. As the above quote suggests, the Knicks had to spend just over $43.5m to fulfil their obligations under the CBA.

The list of available free agents bck in 2010 can be seen here: http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2010/. It includes such shining lights as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Carlos Boozer, Rudy Gay, Dirk Nowitzki, Kwame Brown, Channing Frye, Yao Ming and of course, Randolph Morris. Most of this list resigned with their teams and/or signed with Miami. Now as we can see, the Knicks had to spend just over $6.5m back in 2010. So they had to sign someone. Maybe they resigned Channing Frye? Who knows. Lets say that the Knicks were gifted the great gift of prescience and signed the only PF on that list that still has any value and that had any probability of moving, namely Luis Scola. Luis Scola signed a 5 year, 47m contract with his old team, paying him $7.75m in 2010. This would have just gotten the Knicks over the 75% requirement, so happy happy days. Of course, at this point we are living in make-believe Bonn world so anything is possible but I would point out that Luis Scola is 2 years older than Amar'e Stoudemire and in 2010-11 averaged 18.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 0.6 bpg. This was his best season in the league. Amar'e Stoudemire averaged 25.3 ppg, 8.2 rpg and 1.9 bpg in 2010-11. This was not his best season in the league.

The Knicks would have had to spend $49.3m in 2011-12 to fulfil CBA requirements and, under current cap figures, $52.4m this year. So the Knicks would have needed to sign someone else this year as well. I could go into who that person may have been but I have a life.

This simply to point out the fallacy of saying no Amar'e = yay Novak!!

2. Carmelo Anthony.

I could go into detail, but Ill leave you to sell the NY Knicks dream of Amir Johnson, Patrick O'Bryant and Michael Redd to Carmelo Anthony. Should be a presentation, incorporating Im sure a great deal of data, massive sample sizes and dreams of future domination. See Nets, NJ for how that works out.

3. Tyson Chandler.

See above.

4. Iman Shumpert and Josh Harrelson.

Don't forget, the Knicks spent 2010 living on the back of the future HOF that is Luis Scola. Presumably, their win percentage was much higher and their draft spot much lower. So no Iman Shumpert then.

5. Jeremy Lin.

Also dont forget, Tyson Chandler hasn't come to NY in make-believe Bonn world, so Chauncey Billups is still on the team (we probably amnestied someone, probably Scola). So, no Lin then? But wait, Chauncey is injured for the year, we must have signed someone!! Yes!! And in make-believe Bonn world, we still signed Jeremy Lin, because thats just how Bonn rolls.

6. Steve Novak.

Steve Novak? Who is this Steve Novak you speak of? We have Michael Redd and Travis Outlaw, why would we have signed Steve Novak?

7. J.R. Smith

In make-believe Bonn world, we never signed J.R, Smith as he's a cancer in the lockerroom. I know, we really did, but thats just the way I roll.

8. Mike D'Antoni

In MBBW, MDA has done a stellar job and doesnt even want J.R. Smith back. So there.

9. Darius Songaila

I know what youre think, Darius who? Ah, but you see in this alternative reality, Songaila (or Pop Song as the kids like to call him nowadays) stuck with a team, oh lets call them the NJ Nets and became an overnight sensation after averaging 27.8ppg, 15.4rpg, 3.1bpg, 5apg over 7 games. D-Song is the current reigning MVP with the NBA Champion Nets, but the Knicks are pretty certain they can prise him away this year with all their cap space. What cap space? Oh, we traded Carmelo for Gerald Wallace and Toney Douglas for Kyrie Irving and look forward to next years no. 1 pick. Its all about 2012 free agency, as the papers are saying.

10.Isiah Thomas

The current Knicks GM is considering retirement, but after public demonstrations and massive fan support, has agreed to stay on another year to captain his ship once more.

11. NBA draft 2012. We traded C.J. Watson to the Bobcats for their pick and won the draft. Who needs Steve Novak anyway?

As you can see above, the utter ignorance of saying "Man if we didn't have Amar'e we could sign....." is massive and astounding. It matters not a jot whether you would want Amar'e on this team, whether he's going to be great or whether hes going to be washed up and broken down after this year. To say if we didnt have Amare we could sign player X is so astonishingly dumb that I now know what a mind boggle feels like (kinda cool, like as if my cerebellum was wind-surfing).

Anyway, thats my rant over. I'll just end on a warning note to those fresh young unembittered new posters out there. Beware the poster who fakes rationality and scientific reason. Some people rant and hate, but at least you see their colours. But those who dress it up to try and hide their real intentions while innocently quoting scientifically established sample sizes and utterly necessary amounts of clutchness, they are more full of Shit than most.

I remember the days when we used to just fight pointlessly over how much H2O sucked and Spree was great. And Ewing should stop setting picks 35 feet from the basket.

Posts like this are enlightening, yet strangely frightening.

Which reminds me of a song...