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Nzar to start for rest of season
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EnYKnickFan
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3/2/2004  11:18 PM
martin I havent seen nothing about NM but his games with the knicks. I shoulda came with harder facts but im judging by what i see on the court and when deke is playing better D then NM come on your more "athlethic" and "younger" he needs to show up there. I HOPE that NM succeds but i dont see it happening and all this "athletic" and "potential" thing is going overboard. Just how long does it take to reach your potential? As for double double guys that are F.A's i dont know since i dont have that in front of me. Who would you rather have in your team out of these guys Swift,Camby,NM? NM has a upside but so does TT and where has he gone.

As far as why the knicks cant make pick ups well look our salary. So the way you see the team its the way it will be unless we get a important piece. Therefore NYK fans have nothing to want NM to develop.

[Edited by - EnYKnickFan on 03/02/2004 23:24:02]
AUTOADVERT
martin
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3/2/2004  11:20 PM
Posted by EnYKnickFan:

martin I havent seen nothing about NM but his games with the knicks. I shoulda came with harder facts but im judging by what i see on the court and when deke is playing better D then NM come on your more "athlethic" and "younger" he needs to show up there. I HOPE that NM succeds but i dont see it happening and all this "athletic" and "potential" thing is going overboard. Just how long does it take to reach your potential? As for double double guys that are F.A's i dont know since i dont have that in front of me. Who would you rather have in your team out of these guys Swift,Camby,NM? NM has a upside but so does TT and where has he gone.


OK. well said.
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gunsnewing
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3/3/2004  1:32 AM
Nazr averaged 12pts, 9rebs in only 25min his 3rd year in the league. now that he is the starter I hope he can put up those same numbers and have Deke come in for key defensive stops.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/03/2004 09:13:15]
Caseloads
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3/3/2004  2:22 AM
Posted by martin:

from here:

http://www.nba.com/knicks/inthepaint/destiny_040302.html

For now, spell the cream “Mohammed.” “I’ve made the decision this morning,” Wilkens said. “Nazr is going to start for us in the middle the rest of the way.”

“I’m happy,” Mohammed smiled. “I mean, I’ve been ready TO start in this league for a long time now. But starting is meaningless unless you do the things that help the team win, the things coach talked to me about. Which are rebounding and playing defense.”

“I’m not comfortable yet,” added Mohammed who made his Knicks debut on Feb. 20. “I’m GETTING comfortable, though. Each day, I feel a little better with the guys and where they like to get the ball and how they like to play. But, no question, it’s a process.”
I strongly suspect that Thomas, told Lenny to start Nazr, period
technomaster
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3/3/2004  3:29 AM
Yeah. Wilkens is making Isiah Thomas look bad by noodling around with his lineups.

So... back to my post. 6'10" players, with reasonable coordination and average athleticism... should be able to average CLOSE to a double-double (or at least 10 boards) given starter minutes.

HOWEVER... there are other factors involved. While playing those starter minutes, are they playing defense or are they just hovering around the basket waiting for the rebounds. Likewise... are they even making across halfcourt on offense or are they saving all of their energy to battle in the paint? Are they making picks for their teammates, are helping to distribute the ball, are they boxing out...

There's more to basketball than rebounding and picking up your garbage points. The better players are able to put up stats AND do the little things to help their teams win.

You don't need $7 to find an eager young bigman ready to work. Every year in the summer leagues, you see players emerge-- usually they get signed and stuffed deep within a team's bench. On rare occassion, these guys get to play minutes and they really surprise you. In fact, sometimes they do worse when they get the big contracts. (Marc Jackson, Jerome James, Calvin Booth)

While we're at it, check out this cheap "no name" Mark Blount. He fits in my category of backup center. Career averages of 18.4mpg, 5ppg, 4rpg.

Well, take a look at what he's done since January. He's averaging 17.2ppg/12.4rpg over his last 5 games, in 33.8mpg. Is it a fluke? Maybe. Was the talent always there? Maybe, but unrealized?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3222

Or take Joel Pryzbilla, former lottery pick. After sitting around doing nothing in Milwaukee, he's suddenly putting up numbers with minutes, in Atlanta, no less. :) Career numbers are 14.8mpg, 2ppg, 3.9rpg. Over his last 5 games in Atlanta, he's averaging 5ppg, 11rpg, and 2.8bpg in 31mpg.

Now you tell me... are these players really that good? Are they surprising the league because they have no scouting reports? Or is it really true that averaging double digit rebounds comes down to minutes?

There are stories like these everywhere. Brian Cardinal on Golden State. Troy Murphy last year. Brian Skinner on the Bucks. Can you imagine we even had him on our summer league team for a while? We could have had 10.4ppg/7.5rpg in 27mpg for league minimum.

Thus... putting up numbers is easy. Some of these guys do more than just put up numbers... they learn how to contribute on winning NBA teams. We've heard of Nazr's amazing stats that one year. Can Nazr make that transition from stat man to a real contributor on a winning team?


[Edited by - technomaster on 03/03/2004 03:33:49]

[Edited by - technomaster on 03/03/2004 11:46:45]
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jazz74
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3/3/2004  8:32 AM
Posted by technomaster:

Yeah. Wilkens is making Isiah Thomas look bad by noodling around with his lineups.

So... back to my post. 6'10" players, with reasonable coordination and average athleticism... should be able to average CLOSE to a double-double (or at least 10 boards) given starter minutes.

HOWEVER... there are other factors involved. While playing those starter minutes, are they playing defense or are they just hovering around the basket waiting for the rebounds. Likewise... are they even making across halfcourt on offense or are they saving all of their energy to battle in the paint? Are they making picks for their teammates, are helping to distribute the ball, are they boxing out...

There's more to basketball than rebounding and picking up your garbage points. The better players are able to put up stats AND do the little things to help their teams win.

You don't need $7 to find a eager young bigman ready to work. Every year in the summer leagues, you see players emerge-- usually they get signed and stuffed deep within a team's bench. On rare occassion, these guys get to play minutes and they really surprise you. In fact, sometimes they do worse when they get the big contracts. (Marc Jackson, Jerome James, Calvin Booth)

While we're at it, check out this cheap "no name" Mark Blount. He fits in my category of backup center. Career averages of 18.4mpg, 5ppg, 4rpg.

Well, take a look at what he's done since January. He's averaging 17.2ppg/12.4rpg over his last 5 games, in 33.8mpg. Is it a fluke? Maybe. Was the talent always there? Maybe, but unrealized?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3222

Or take Joel Pryzbilla, former lottery pick. After sitting around doing nothing in Milwaukee, he's suddenly putting up numbers with minutes, in Atlanta, no less. :) Career numbers are 14.8mpg, 2ppg, 3.9rpg. Over his last 5 games in Atlanta, he's averaging 5ppg, 11rpg, and 2.8bpg in 31mpg.

Now you tell me... are these players really that good? Are they surprising the league because they have no scouting reports? Or is it really true that averaging double digit rebounds comes down to minutes?

There are stories like these everywhere. Brian Cardinal on Golden State. Troy Murphy last year. Brian Skinner on the Bucks. Can you imagine we even had him on our summer league team for a while? We could have had 10.4ppg/7.5rpg in 27mpg for league minimum.

Thus... putting up numbers is easy. Some of these guys do more than just put up numbers... they learn how to contribute on winning NBA teams. We've heard of Nazr's amazing stats that one year. Can Nazr make that transition from stat man to a real contributor on a winning team?


[Edited by - technomaster on 03/03/2004 03:33:49]

those are good points, tech. but the fact of the matter is we don't know. we don't know if naz will be a major contributing center or not. it is a risk like every trade. we could come up with a cardinal or a benoit benjamin. we have to see. but we had to address a need. i mean i like deke as much as the next person but are'nt you tires of his slow reastions and him clogging the middle on offense? he had some great games that were shocking but more times than not he gets embarassed by some one quicker and athletic. we know that at least naz can run the floor and jump ridiculously. he is still raw. someone asked how much time do we give him. well, dampier had his best year this year and he is 30. and naz did contribute on a winning team with the sixers. so we does know what it takes to win. lenny, glyph and jabbar must still develop him to be a solid center.
posterchild
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3/3/2004  9:15 AM
I really don't like this, naz hasn't really shown that he is acclimated to the Knicks game plan yet. I would like to see Othella in there instead. yup.
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gunsnewing
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3/3/2004  9:41 AM
starting Othella is just stupid. We really get destroyed on the boards when he starts next to thomas. At least Nazr is long and can rebound and Deke may be slow but he rebounds and is always blocking or altering shots. Sometimes I think some of you guys are watching a different game because I don't know how don't see what Deke does for our defense.
NYK8
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3/3/2004  10:18 AM
i agree but how long Deke been in the game.he already got to his peak and he is not our future so Nazr gotta get wit the program.
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raven
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3/3/2004  10:21 AM
Posted by technomaster:

Yeah. Wilkens is making Isiah Thomas look bad by noodling around with his lineups.

So... back to my post. 6'10" players, with reasonable coordination and average athleticism... should be able to average CLOSE to a double-double (or at least 10 boards) given starter minutes.

HOWEVER... there are other factors involved. While playing those starter minutes, are they playing defense or are they just hovering around the basket waiting for the rebounds. Likewise... are they even making across halfcourt on offense or are they saving all of their energy to battle in the paint? Are they making picks for their teammates, are helping to distribute the ball, are they boxing out...

There's more to basketball than rebounding and picking up your garbage points. The better players are able to put up stats AND do the little things to help their teams win.

You don't need $7 to find a eager young bigman ready to work. Every year in the summer leagues, you see players emerge-- usually they get signed and stuffed deep within a team's bench. On rare occassion, these guys get to play minutes and they really surprise you. In fact, sometimes they do worse when they get the big contracts. (Marc Jackson, Jerome James, Calvin Booth)

While we're at it, check out this cheap "no name" Mark Blount. He fits in my category of backup center. Career averages of 18.4mpg, 5ppg, 4rpg.

Well, take a look at what he's done since January. He's averaging 17.2ppg/12.4rpg over his last 5 games, in 33.8mpg. Is it a fluke? Maybe. Was the talent always there? Maybe, but unrealized?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3222

Or take Joel Pryzbilla, former lottery pick. After sitting around doing nothing in Milwaukee, he's suddenly putting up numbers with minutes, in Atlanta, no less. :) Career numbers are 14.8mpg, 2ppg, 3.9rpg. Over his last 5 games in Atlanta, he's averaging 5ppg, 11rpg, and 2.8bpg in 31mpg.

Now you tell me... are these players really that good? Are they surprising the league because they have no scouting reports? Or is it really true that averaging double digit rebounds comes down to minutes?

There are stories like these everywhere. Brian Cardinal on Golden State. Troy Murphy last year. Brian Skinner on the Bucks. Can you imagine we even had him on our summer league team for a while? We could have had 10.4ppg/7.5rpg in 27mpg for league minimum.

Thus... putting up numbers is easy. Some of these guys do more than just put up numbers... they learn how to contribute on winning NBA teams. We've heard of Nazr's amazing stats that one year. Can Nazr make that transition from stat man to a real contributor on a winning team?

Great insight, thanks. (great and a little bit scary)
bernard
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3/3/2004  1:43 PM
Jury's still out on Nazr, no doubt. He's been mediocre at best so far for the Knicks, but it's been too short a stretch to judge.

Regardless of this, I like naming him the starter. Need to try to establish a rotation and an identity w/ all our new players. They need to play with the same guys every game so they get to know each others' habits. Whatever Wilkens says, this decision isn't irreversible. If Nazr's playing poorly after another 5 games and we're still losing, of course he'll make another switch. But for now, he gives Nazr some confidence, gives him a chance to get into a groove, and sends a message to the team that experimenting is over ... it's time to execute.
Elite
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3/3/2004  3:20 PM
Damnit just start mutumbo the guy plays D, we dont need him to score
martin
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3/3/2004  3:33 PM
Posted by Elite:

Damnit just start mutumbo the guy plays D, we dont need him to score

thing is, the team doesn't need him to score but they do need him to be effective. And by that I mean being able to handle a pass for a quick dunk (Deke takes like 5 seconds to catch and dunk), running with the fast break (Deke is nada), not complaining to refs (nope), playing D 15 feet away from the basket against those pesky Eastern Conference centers (nope), weak side D (yup), and so forth.
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technomaster
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3/3/2004  5:31 PM
Deke is good at winning tipoffs...
His sharp elbows haven't dulled after all of these years--- they're just as deadly and intimidating, so he creates good space around him.
His long arms and good anticipation still make him a very effective shot blocker.
His slow motion moves around the basket are effective because of those deadly elbows.
He also brings attitude and charisma to the court--- people notice when he's out there. No matter what you say about him, he doesn't disappear.
And you can't teach 7'2".

So... I wouldn't say he's completely useless. Against certain teams-- running teams that have good long range passers, prolonged minutes from Deke can be a liability. He can't keep up with his man in a full-court game. He's still killer in the half-court game defensively--- which is what you're see mostly in the playoffs.

I'm still not entirely sure what Nazr adds... probably needs more time to adjust.
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playa2
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3/3/2004  5:33 PM
THIS IS A PROBLEM: Thomas denied he has any say in Wilkens' lineup or rotation, though several players have privately speculated otherwise. Regardless, it's obvious that everyone is tired of the constant changes. Tonight's starting five will be the fifth different group in the last six games and Wilkens is craving consistency, particularly since Allan Houston (knee) has returned from a 13-game injury layoff.
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3/4/2004  4:20 AM
The way Lenny has handled rotations and who gets to play I think it is a good thing that Iseah gets the final say on that. Its obvoious that if you make the trade for TT and Narz mostly for the sake of gettin Nazr you must start him and at least see if you got robbed. Mohammed did great the 2 (out of 3 I think) games that he started, agaisnt Sac and Philly.

Just remember that Lenny played Mooch over FW for like 2 monght lol. Iseah should and must make him play the right players. Once he is told whome to play Lenny does a good job of gettin the most out of the group usually. But he cannot handle having to decide on a rotation by hsimself. I don't know why that is the case, but it is.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
playa2
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3/4/2004  6:21 AM
Zeke could have told Chaney who to play too, that so sad. Nazr played well last night, now he has to get his confidence together. Nice win last night.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
NYK8
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3/4/2004  3:36 PM
Posted by NYK8:

i agree but how long Deke been in the game.he already got to his peak and he is not our future so Nazr gotta get wit the program.
good game thats what im talkin about
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simrud
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3/5/2004  9:30 AM
Nazr clearly has the skills to be just as good as Maglore, who by the way, was an All-star the East this year. If I remember correctly he was not much of a shot blocker even the beginning of this year. The guy puts up like 12pts 10rebds and 1.3 blocks a game. Nazr can easily put up these numbers, maybe 1.0 block a game, but that’s virtually identical.

When was the last time in the past few years that we could have said that we have a potential double-double real C? Camby was never a real C, so we have to go back all the way to when we had Ewing, and that is obviously not a feasible comparison.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gunsnewing
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3/5/2004  1:16 PM
I think on this Knick Team Nazr can Easily put up at least 10pts, 11rebs,
1.3 blocks if given 30min.
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