Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I wonder if anyone can guess my position

Seriously, I think if you forget about all the other players and draft picks we gave up and simply put Carmelo back on Denver and Gallo back on the Knicks, our record this year would be significantly better.

Right, lets discuss how the regular season record would be and not care about how much better the team in the long run. Only the short sighted are allowed.

I forgot how much better the long-term would be with an overweight, injury prone 9 year veteran. It's ironic that preferring the young, improving player is considered "short sighted." Look, I still think Carmelo is a good player and has many strengths. If you don't really want exposure to a range of views, you shouldn't have opened this thread. DJ opened a can of worms with this thread.

Its a can of worms for you because you are the one that needs to make the point. You are the one that has to chase down every single pro Melo post and try to spin it like Fox News. But whatever.

It is obvious that not only is Melo a better player but is also more durable. He has already played more games than Gallo this season and any Knick fan in their right mind will be feel much better off with Melo over Gallo when Amare is injured and out for 2 to 4 weeks. Time has proven that the Melo trade worked out much better for us because now we have Lin and Candler instead of Felton and Mozgov. At this point its not even a debate. The Melo trade worked out for the Knicks. You want to try and counter because you were against is for so long but everyone sees it. You sound petty at this point. Just accept it that we are better off.

I agree the team we have now is better than team we had pre-trade. If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though. I thought the most practical thing to do was to focus on the players' on-the-court performance.

Note also that I did not say the team would have a better record now if we hadn't made the trade. I said the team would have a better record now if at the start of the season we had swapped Melo and Gallo.

Honestly you do a lot of personal attacking and seem closed off to views other than your own.

So now I and my personality is the problem? Another classic spin technique. If you cannot win the argument, change it.

You can say that about me but I am not letting you get off the point. You make a lot of factual statements that amount to nothing. How can you say stuff like:

If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though.

You don't need to know the validity!! We were playing with Gallo and Mozgov. The only reason we looked to replace them was because we got Melo! And why don't you try to defend you calling Melo injury prone when Gallo has barely played in Feb 8th!? You can't right? Stop looking at stats. Gallo played 28 games his rookie season!! Gallo is built like a twig and calling Melo overweight is like calling Universal Healthcare, Obamacare.

I can understand people not liking Melo but with the benefit of hindsight, how can anyone in their right minds say that the trade was bad?!

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I wonder if anyone can guess my position

Seriously, I think if you forget about all the other players and draft picks we gave up and simply put Carmelo back on Denver and Gallo back on the Knicks, our record this year would be significantly better.

Right, lets discuss how the regular season record would be and not care about how much better the team in the long run. Only the short sighted are allowed.

I forgot how much better the long-term would be with an overweight, injury prone 9 year veteran. It's ironic that preferring the young, improving player is considered "short sighted." Look, I still think Carmelo is a good player and has many strengths. If you don't really want exposure to a range of views, you shouldn't have opened this thread. DJ opened a can of worms with this thread.

Its a can of worms for you because you are the one that needs to make the point. You are the one that has to chase down every single pro Melo post and try to spin it like Fox News. But whatever.

It is obvious that not only is Melo a better player but is also more durable. He has already played more games than Gallo this season and any Knick fan in their right mind will be feel much better off with Melo over Gallo when Amare is injured and out for 2 to 4 weeks. Time has proven that the Melo trade worked out much better for us because now we have Lin and Candler instead of Felton and Mozgov. At this point its not even a debate. The Melo trade worked out for the Knicks. You want to try and counter because you were against is for so long but everyone sees it. You sound petty at this point. Just accept it that we are better off.

I agree the team we have now is better than team we had pre-trade. If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though. I thought the most practical thing to do was to focus on the players' on-the-court performance.

Note also that I did not say the team would have a better record now if we hadn't made the trade. I said the team would have a better record now if at the start of the season we had swapped Melo and Gallo.

Honestly you do a lot of personal attacking and seem closed off to views other than your own.

So now I and my personality is the problem? Another classic spin technique. If you cannot win the argument, change it.

You can say that about me but I am not letting you get off the point. You make a lot of factual statements that amount to nothing. How can you say stuff like:

If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though.

You don't need to know the validity!! We were playing with Gallo and Mozgov. The only reason we looked to replace them was because we got Melo! And why don't you try to defend you calling Melo injury prone when Gallo has barely played in Feb 8th!? You can't right? Stop looking at stats. Gallo played 28 games his rookie season!! Gallo is built like a twig and calling Melo overweight is like calling Universal Healthcare, Obamacare.

I can understand people not liking Melo but with the benefit of hindsight, how can anyone in their right minds say that the trade was bad?!

You call me similar to "Fox News" and "petty" and think I'm the one make it inappropriately personal? Wow!
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I didn't realize Gallo was out again and would say you're right that he's more injury-prone than Melo. I prefer his approach to the game over Melo's and would rather have 60 games a year from him than 70 from Melo. I've found the team very exciting under Woodson but do not think we will ever be title contenders with Melo unless he changes his approach to offense and gets in better shape than he's ever been in.

And btw, your rhetoric reminds me of fox news not a basketball fan. But I have to go so I won't be able to respond right away. I'll try and get back to you tomorrow.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I wonder if anyone can guess my position

Seriously, I think if you forget about all the other players and draft picks we gave up and simply put Carmelo back on Denver and Gallo back on the Knicks, our record this year would be significantly better.

Right, lets discuss how the regular season record would be and not care about how much better the team in the long run. Only the short sighted are allowed.

I forgot how much better the long-term would be with an overweight, injury prone 9 year veteran. It's ironic that preferring the young, improving player is considered "short sighted." Look, I still think Carmelo is a good player and has many strengths. If you don't really want exposure to a range of views, you shouldn't have opened this thread. DJ opened a can of worms with this thread.

Its a can of worms for you because you are the one that needs to make the point. You are the one that has to chase down every single pro Melo post and try to spin it like Fox News. But whatever.

It is obvious that not only is Melo a better player but is also more durable. He has already played more games than Gallo this season and any Knick fan in their right mind will be feel much better off with Melo over Gallo when Amare is injured and out for 2 to 4 weeks. Time has proven that the Melo trade worked out much better for us because now we have Lin and Candler instead of Felton and Mozgov. At this point its not even a debate. The Melo trade worked out for the Knicks. You want to try and counter because you were against is for so long but everyone sees it. You sound petty at this point. Just accept it that we are better off.

I agree the team we have now is better than team we had pre-trade. If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though. I thought the most practical thing to do was to focus on the players' on-the-court performance.

Note also that I did not say the team would have a better record now if we hadn't made the trade. I said the team would have a better record now if at the start of the season we had swapped Melo and Gallo.

Honestly you do a lot of personal attacking and seem closed off to views other than your own.

So now I and my personality is the problem? Another classic spin technique. If you cannot win the argument, change it.

You can say that about me but I am not letting you get off the point. You make a lot of factual statements that amount to nothing. How can you say stuff like:

If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though.

You don't need to know the validity!! We were playing with Gallo and Mozgov. The only reason we looked to replace them was because we got Melo! And why don't you try to defend you calling Melo injury prone when Gallo has barely played in Feb 8th!? You can't right? Stop looking at stats. Gallo played 28 games his rookie season!! Gallo is built like a twig and calling Melo overweight is like calling Universal Healthcare, Obamacare.

I can understand people not liking Melo but with the benefit of hindsight, how can anyone in their right minds say that the trade was bad?!

You call me similar to "Fox News" and "petty" and think I'm the one make it inappropriately personal? Wow!
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I didn't realize Gallo was out again and would say you're right that he's more injury-prone than Melo. I prefer his approach to the game over Melo's and would rather have 60 games a year from him than 70 from Melo. I've found the team very exciting under Woodson but do not think we will ever be title contenders with Melo unless he changes his approach to offense and gets in better shape than he's ever been in.

Bonn!! You did not know he was out? Do you not watch the Denver games? What kind of KnickNugget fan are you? I have probably watched 70 percent of their games since the trade.

I also IMHO think that Chandler is the better player. I loved that guy! Perfect team player. He was also an FA so who knows if we would/could have kept him.

Silverfuel wrote:
Other than Wilson Chandler, I don't miss anyone off that team. All those rookie starters are no longer starting. Tell me who you would have back from that team? Anthony Randolph? Felton? Mozgov? Come on man!

Also, you dont have to label him injury prone after his rookie year about you can call him that after this year right? He missed around 20 games last year and he is out again for a second time this year.

Well, I always believe rookies with right trainer coach, can excel simply because of young age and potentials. The rookies got bounced around and probably lost in the transaction. One of the fortunate/better examples is Lin. What Walsh saw on those players, I had to believe he might be onto something(except Mozgov), but getting rookies is cheap, trainable, and gives you some definite ideas about whom you can pick up from free agencies/trades for the big money. Gallo was healthy during the Melo trade I believe (was he? I forgot). But granted if a rookie on my team missed 20 games, I would probably trade him fast and you are right, he is now proven injury prone. I just look at the Melo trade and believe we got lucky. Somethings great came out of this trade but it was never anyone's guess, especially the owner.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:Just cannot go back in history and compare these things. We are where we are and don't know where we are going, but cannot go back.

Right Could not have said it better

Also I cant say better that Mike Woodson in under 1 month is 8-1 vs. some pretty good teams
and I've never EVER EVER seen Michael 'Strahan-mr.Pringles' D'Antoni go 8-1 record or whatever his best clip win streak was in
3-4 near seasons as Knickerbocker coach.

NEVER

We know where we at & going now
but we had an idea where we're going with MDA at end of February 2012 & its direction was not good outlook

Uh ... Linsanity?

I know; I was going to say that too. It's ironic that the team's record was *exactly* 8-1 during that stretch too.

You see? I try to be fair and balanced

Still shocked you did not know that Gallo is out long term. I thought you were his biggest fan!!

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I wonder if anyone can guess my position

Seriously, I think if you forget about all the other players and draft picks we gave up and simply put Carmelo back on Denver and Gallo back on the Knicks, our record this year would be significantly better.

Right, lets discuss how the regular season record would be and not care about how much better the team in the long run. Only the short sighted are allowed.

I forgot how much better the long-term would be with an overweight, injury prone 9 year veteran. It's ironic that preferring the young, improving player is considered "short sighted." Look, I still think Carmelo is a good player and has many strengths. If you don't really want exposure to a range of views, you shouldn't have opened this thread. DJ opened a can of worms with this thread.

Its a can of worms for you because you are the one that needs to make the point. You are the one that has to chase down every single pro Melo post and try to spin it like Fox News. But whatever.

It is obvious that not only is Melo a better player but is also more durable. He has already played more games than Gallo this season and any Knick fan in their right mind will be feel much better off with Melo over Gallo when Amare is injured and out for 2 to 4 weeks. Time has proven that the Melo trade worked out much better for us because now we have Lin and Candler instead of Felton and Mozgov. At this point its not even a debate. The Melo trade worked out for the Knicks. You want to try and counter because you were against is for so long but everyone sees it. You sound petty at this point. Just accept it that we are better off.

I agree the team we have now is better than team we had pre-trade. If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though. I thought the most practical thing to do was to focus on the players' on-the-court performance.

Note also that I did not say the team would have a better record now if we hadn't made the trade. I said the team would have a better record now if at the start of the season we had swapped Melo and Gallo.

Honestly you do a lot of personal attacking and seem closed off to views other than your own.

So now I and my personality is the problem? Another classic spin technique. If you cannot win the argument, change it.

You can say that about me but I am not letting you get off the point. You make a lot of factual statements that amount to nothing. How can you say stuff like:

If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though.

You don't need to know the validity!! We were playing with Gallo and Mozgov. The only reason we looked to replace them was because we got Melo! And why don't you try to defend you calling Melo injury prone when Gallo has barely played in Feb 8th!? You can't right? Stop looking at stats. Gallo played 28 games his rookie season!! Gallo is built like a twig and calling Melo overweight is like calling Universal Healthcare, Obamacare.

I can understand people not liking Melo but with the benefit of hindsight, how can anyone in their right minds say that the trade was bad?!

You call me similar to "Fox News" and "petty" and think I'm the one make it inappropriately personal? Wow!
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I didn't realize Gallo was out again and would say you're right that he's more injury-prone than Melo. I prefer his approach to the game over Melo's and would rather have 60 games a year from him than 70 from Melo. I've found the team very exciting under Woodson but do not think we will ever be title contenders with Melo unless he changes his approach to offense and gets in better shape than he's ever been in.

So you are wrong about the injury prone stuff so you bring up something totally different. There is the double standard. Did you think we would ever be title contenders with Gallo?

And btw, your rhetoric reminds me of fox news not a basketball fan. But I have to go so I won't be able to respond right away. I'll try and get back to you tomorrow.

I said I was wrong about the injury prone stuff. You want me to then mention nothing else? Do you want me to just write 10 sentences each stating my error in different words?

I think we'd have a chance of being title contenders in the future if did the right approach to rebuilding. That would have included extending Gallo but would have been part of a much broad vision that I've written about before. With this roster, it's not impossible to be title contenders but Amare has to return to the play he had 1 1/2 years ago and Melo has to change his approach to offense.

Can you call me Rush Limbaugh next? I dislike Fox News but am hoping for an even stronger insult!

You are Rush Limbaugh. Actually no, he is smarter than all of us. He can spin it like no one else.

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I wonder if anyone can guess my position

Seriously, I think if you forget about all the other players and draft picks we gave up and simply put Carmelo back on Denver and Gallo back on the Knicks, our record this year would be significantly better.

Right, lets discuss how the regular season record would be and not care about how much better the team in the long run. Only the short sighted are allowed.

I forgot how much better the long-term would be with an overweight, injury prone 9 year veteran. It's ironic that preferring the young, improving player is considered "short sighted." Look, I still think Carmelo is a good player and has many strengths. If you don't really want exposure to a range of views, you shouldn't have opened this thread. DJ opened a can of worms with this thread.

Its a can of worms for you because you are the one that needs to make the point. You are the one that has to chase down every single pro Melo post and try to spin it like Fox News. But whatever.

It is obvious that not only is Melo a better player but is also more durable. He has already played more games than Gallo this season and any Knick fan in their right mind will be feel much better off with Melo over Gallo when Amare is injured and out for 2 to 4 weeks. Time has proven that the Melo trade worked out much better for us because now we have Lin and Candler instead of Felton and Mozgov. At this point its not even a debate. The Melo trade worked out for the Knicks. You want to try and counter because you were against is for so long but everyone sees it. You sound petty at this point. Just accept it that we are better off.

I agree the team we have now is better than team we had pre-trade. If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though. I thought the most practical thing to do was to focus on the players' on-the-court performance.

Note also that I did not say the team would have a better record now if we hadn't made the trade. I said the team would have a better record now if at the start of the season we had swapped Melo and Gallo.

Honestly you do a lot of personal attacking and seem closed off to views other than your own.

So now I and my personality is the problem? Another classic spin technique. If you cannot win the argument, change it.

You can say that about me but I am not letting you get off the point. You make a lot of factual statements that amount to nothing. How can you say stuff like:

If for a moment we grant that the Melo trade was the only way to get those players, then the trade would have been worthwhile. It's impossible to know the validity of that assumption though.

You don't need to know the validity!! We were playing with Gallo and Mozgov. The only reason we looked to replace them was because we got Melo! And why don't you try to defend you calling Melo injury prone when Gallo has barely played in Feb 8th!? You can't right? Stop looking at stats. Gallo played 28 games his rookie season!! Gallo is built like a twig and calling Melo overweight is like calling Universal Healthcare, Obamacare.

I can understand people not liking Melo but with the benefit of hindsight, how can anyone in their right minds say that the trade was bad?!

You call me similar to "Fox News" and "petty" and think I'm the one make it inappropriately personal? Wow!
I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I didn't realize Gallo was out again and would say you're right that he's more injury-prone than Melo. I prefer his approach to the game over Melo's and would rather have 60 games a year from him than 70 from Melo. I've found the team very exciting under Woodson but do not think we will ever be title contenders with Melo unless he changes his approach to offense and gets in better shape than he's ever been in.

So you are wrong about the injury prone stuff so you bring up something totally different. There is the double standard. Did you think we would ever be title contenders with Gallo?

And btw, your rhetoric reminds me of fox news not a basketball fan. But I have to go so I won't be able to respond right away. I'll try and get back to you tomorrow.

I said I was wrong about the injury prone stuff. You want me to then mention nothing else? Do you want me to just write 10 sentences each stating my error in different words?

When you are proven wrong, don't bring up other random stuff to change the topic.

I think we'd have a chance of being title contenders in the future if did the right approach to rebuilding. That would have included extending Gallo but would have been part of a much broad vision that I've written about before. With this roster, it's not impossible to be title contenders but Amare has to return to the play he had 1 1/2 years ago and Melo has to change his approach to offense.

Can you call me Rush Limbaugh next? I dislike Fox News but am hoping for an even stronger insult!

Even with an injury prone Gallo? That means you are giving Gallo the benefit of the doubt but not Melo. Is that because you just don't like Melo or because you don't want to be proven wrong?

You are Rush Limbaugh. Actually no, he is smarter than all of us. He can spin it like no one else.

Bonn1997 wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:

HugeKnick4 wrote:Just cannot go back in history and compare these things. We are where we are and don't know where we are going, but cannot go back.

Right Could not have said it better

Also I cant say better that Mike Woodson in under 1 month is 8-1 vs. some pretty good teams
and I've never EVER EVER seen Michael 'Strahan-mr.Pringles' D'Antoni go 8-1 record or whatever his best clip win streak was in
3-4 near seasons as Knickerbocker coach.

NEVER

We know where we at & going now
but we had an idea where we're going with MDA at end of February 2012 & its direction was not good outlook

Uh ... Linsanity?

I know; I was going to say that too. It's ironic that the team's record was *exactly* 8-1 during that stretch too.

Bottom line is defense. Period

Jeremy Lin is still improving, hurt and going to make mistakes. Its really a sophomore rookie yr for Lin.
This Lin-sanity should stop. Lin is a BASKETBALL player period.
Lin-sanity isn't basketball its stock & $$$ talk that's it. I rather the BASKETBALL Player whom is a Knickerbocker

Going back to 8-1 stretch to Lin leading wins under MDA, teams were figuring out Knicks scheme and playing J.Lin different after
8-1 stretch. No need to blame entirety on MELO or AMARE returns

Again simple whether you like it or Not bottom line is defense.
you're going to have to pay the piper sometime & defense wins tough games alot of times & against varied circumstances

Mike D'Antoni coach, Woody as_stant defensive coach wasn't winning games on D' end of court cause the players HEAR 1 Voice
& one system the D'Antoni sytstem.

Furthermore if D'Antoni brother Dan the former defensive so-call coach was so great Knicks would not have to have any discussing chat
on NYK being a BAD Defensive team period.

Team playing defense now & Folks cannot believe they are watching a team looking like 90's Knicks defense with same cast, same roster
players same role players whom was under D'Antoni coach BUT NOW under Mike Woodson 'new' NYK interim Coach.

1 Voice being heard by players Coach Woodson teaches both end of floor (D and offensive). D'Antoni too STUBBORN for his own good.
End of story..