KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:enjoy the ride... Melo is 27 and according to basketball reference has a 68 percent shot of making the Hall of Fame. If he produces somewhere between where he has IN A LOCK OUT SEASON and his career averages for the remainder of his career, he is going to the Hall of Fame. This is the same crap people said about Dirk before he won a chip

Exactly right.

Not to ruin your party but at 27, Dirk was a more efficient scorer and rebounder than Melo, plus I don’t remember anybody ever questioning his leadership, Dirk was soft but always committed.

There are things you can find better in both players, but i think they are in the same category in general.

Wrong my friend, in his prime Dirk was a MVP candidate almost every year and a MVP winner in 2007, while a very good all-star, I don’t think Carmelo has ever being a true MVP candidate in the NBA. May be someday MAY BE.

Dirk was considered soft. People thought he didn't rebound enough. They said stuff like "WHY'S A SEVEN FOOTER HANGING OUT ON THE PERIMTER?!?!" Then he won a championship and suddenly everyone remembers his career differently, as well as revises their personal history with watching him. Try reading op/ed pieces on Dirk after the Golden State collapse. Obviously their games are different. But both are extremely talented perennial All Stars who when they are on are among the best players in the world. Heck, Dirk even showed up this year out of shape.

The point of the mention to Dirk though was that Melo is at the same point in his career where Dirk was when he took the majority of his chit. He ate a lot of chit. Again, he at a lot of chit. But the Dallas organization stayed the course and it paid off in the end.

To tie the two together, this Knicks group hasn't been together long enough to realistically compete for a championship. But they'll see what works and what doesn't work and the organization will make adjustments. Because Melo can win games single handedly. Last night the Knicks would have lost if you plug in some average SF.

The ceiling is significantly higher with Melo than without. I know everyone says 'look at how the Nuggets are doing without Melo!" and thinks the Nugs got the king's haul, but don't look now because right now Denver isn't in the playoffs. Did that ever happen with Melo?

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:enjoy the ride... Melo is 27 and according to basketball reference has a 68 percent shot of making the Hall of Fame. If he produces somewhere between where he has IN A LOCK OUT SEASON and his career averages for the remainder of his career, he is going to the Hall of Fame. This is the same crap people said about Dirk before he won a chip

Exactly right.

Not to ruin your party but at 27, Dirk was a more efficient scorer and rebounder than Melo, plus I don’t remember anybody ever questioning his leadership, Dirk was soft but always committed.

There are things you can find better in both players, but i think they are in the same category in general.

Wrong my friend, in his prime Dirk was a MVP candidate almost every year and a MVP winner in 2007, while a very good all-star, I don’t think Carmelo has ever being a true MVP candidate in the NBA. May be someday MAY BE.

Dirk was considered soft. People thought he didn't rebound enough. They said stuff like "WHY'S A SEVEN FOOTER HANGING OUT ON THE PERIMTER?!?!" Then he won a championship and suddenly everyone remembers his career differently, as well as revises their personal history with watching him. Try reading op/ed pieces on Dirk after the Golden State collapse. Obviously their games are different. But both are extremely talented perennial All Stars who when they are on are among the best players in the world. Heck, Dirk even showed up this year out of shape.

This is exactly right. People have a different idea of Dirk now, and seem to forget the general opinion of him many years ago.

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:enjoy the ride... Melo is 27 and according to basketball reference has a 68 percent shot of making the Hall of Fame. If he produces somewhere between where he has IN A LOCK OUT SEASON and his career averages for the remainder of his career, he is going to the Hall of Fame. This is the same crap people said about Dirk before he won a chip

Exactly right.

Not to ruin your party but at 27, Dirk was a more efficient scorer and rebounder than Melo, plus I don’t remember anybody ever questioning his leadership, Dirk was soft but always committed.

There are things you can find better in both players, but i think they are in the same category in general.

Wrong my friend, in his prime Dirk was a MVP candidate almost every year and a MVP winner in 2007, while a very good all-star, I don’t think Carmelo has ever being a true MVP candidate in the NBA. May be someday MAY BE.

Dirk was considered soft. People thought he didn't rebound enough. They said stuff like "WHY'S A SEVEN FOOTER HANGING OUT ON THE PERIMTER?!?!" Then he won a championship and suddenly everyone remembers his career differently, as well as revises their personal history with watching him. Try reading op/ed pieces on Dirk after the Golden State collapse. Obviously their games are different. But both are extremely talented perennial All Stars who when they are on are among the best players in the world. Heck, Dirk even showed up this year out of shape.

This is exactly right. People have a different idea of Dirk now, and seem to forget the general opinion of him many years ago.

While they were both highly criticize at some point during their carrier, a prime Dirk was already a 3 times all NBA first team 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2011 , a NBA MVP in 2007, a three point shootout champion in 2006 and had taken the Dallas Mavericks team to the NBA finals in 2006 (losing to the Heat). Since Carmelo hasn’t achieve any of these, I would think comparing him to Dirk is really unfair to Dirk regardless of the media and fan’s perceptions.

As far as Dirk being out of shape this year, for all I care he can become the next Eddy Curry, since he already did what nobody could have never done for that franchise before and that was winning the NBA championship. SOMETHING WE CAN ONLY DREAM ABOUT.

A strong comparison off the top of my head would be someone like Paul Pierce, a star and leading scorer on his team, but always outshone by a more athletic and more brilliant contemporary (Kobe).

From a sheer statistical perspective, I'd also compare Melo to Kevin Durant, though Durant seems to be outpacing Melo in awesomeness.

Alternatively, Basketball-Reference gives him some extremely interesting similar players, who I don't really see as all that similar...:
Shane Battier, John Havlicek, Jamal Wilkes, and Mehmet Okur.

But back on topic, the Linsanity lineup CAN win... but there are some obvious changes - we now have a functional Baron Davis, offensive-powerhouse JR Smith, Jorts, a semi-gimpy Anthony... and all we've lost is Bill Walker and JJ2.

technomaster wrote:Dirk might not be the best comparison for Melo. He's one of those players that breaks the mould and transcends position. He's an odd Wing-Center thing, an anti-tweener. Versatile. His game is so different from normal convention that his coaching staff has always had to structure his supporting cast in strange and mysterious ways.

A strong comparison off the top of my head would be someone like Paul Pierce, a star and leading scorer on his team, but always outshone by a more athletic and more brilliant contemporary (Kobe).

From a sheer statistical perspective, I'd also compare Melo to Kevin Durant, though Durant seems to be outpacing Melo in awesomeness.

Alternatively, Basketball-Reference gives him some extremely interesting similar players, who I don't really see as all that similar...:
Shane Battier, John Havlicek, Jamal Wilkes, and Mehmet Okur.

But back on topic, the Linsanity lineup CAN win... but there are some obvious changes - we now have a functional Baron Davis, offensive-powerhouse JR Smith, Jorts, a semi-gimpy Anthony... and all we've lost is Bill Walker and JJ2.

I totally agree, Melo should no be compare to Dirk in any way, shape or form (Dirk was wayyyyy better). On the other hand Pierce and Melo is a much better comparison.

KnicksFE wrote:

technomaster wrote:Dirk might not be the best comparison for Melo. He's one of those players that breaks the mould and transcends position. He's an odd Wing-Center thing, an anti-tweener. Versatile. His game is so different from normal convention that his coaching staff has always had to structure his supporting cast in strange and mysterious ways.

A strong comparison off the top of my head would be someone like Paul Pierce, a star and leading scorer on his team, but always outshone by a more athletic and more brilliant contemporary (Kobe).

From a sheer statistical perspective, I'd also compare Melo to Kevin Durant, though Durant seems to be outpacing Melo in awesomeness.

Alternatively, Basketball-Reference gives him some extremely interesting similar players, who I don't really see as all that similar...:
Shane Battier, John Havlicek, Jamal Wilkes, and Mehmet Okur.

But back on topic, the Linsanity lineup CAN win... but there are some obvious changes - we now have a functional Baron Davis, offensive-powerhouse JR Smith, Jorts, a semi-gimpy Anthony... and all we've lost is Bill Walker and JJ2.

I totally agree, Melo should no be compare to Dirk in any way, shape or form (Dirk was wayyyyy better). On the other hand Pierce and Melo is a much better comparison.

I agree, though Pierce is a better player. Though, I was watching pierce the other night and he looked FAT!!

mrKnickShot wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

technomaster wrote:Dirk might not be the best comparison for Melo. He's one of those players that breaks the mould and transcends position. He's an odd Wing-Center thing, an anti-tweener. Versatile. His game is so different from normal convention that his coaching staff has always had to structure his supporting cast in strange and mysterious ways.

A strong comparison off the top of my head would be someone like Paul Pierce, a star and leading scorer on his team, but always outshone by a more athletic and more brilliant contemporary (Kobe).

From a sheer statistical perspective, I'd also compare Melo to Kevin Durant, though Durant seems to be outpacing Melo in awesomeness.

Alternatively, Basketball-Reference gives him some extremely interesting similar players, who I don't really see as all that similar...:
Shane Battier, John Havlicek, Jamal Wilkes, and Mehmet Okur.

But back on topic, the Linsanity lineup CAN win... but there are some obvious changes - we now have a functional Baron Davis, offensive-powerhouse JR Smith, Jorts, a semi-gimpy Anthony... and all we've lost is Bill Walker and JJ2.

I totally agree, Melo should no be compare to Dirk in any way, shape or form (Dirk was wayyyyy better). On the other hand Pierce and Melo is a much better comparison.

okay fine, let's compare Melo to another Hall of Famer instead

Well I think that Pierce is the type of player that Melo should look to emulate. He too had a shoddy rep until he won and became a better team player. Melo certainly has the talent that pierce has.

fair enough.

maybe I was unclear or was misinterpreted... don't know. The entire reason I brought Dirk up in the first place was because he was surrounded by role players and depth that complimented his skillset. Dirk has holes to his game but brings more to the table than he takes off. Dirk and Melo could not be more different as players but I think Melo's situation is a lot like Dirk's was and that turned out all right. That's all I was trying to say

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

technomaster wrote:Dirk might not be the best comparison for Melo. He's one of those players that breaks the mould and transcends position. He's an odd Wing-Center thing, an anti-tweener. Versatile. His game is so different from normal convention that his coaching staff has always had to structure his supporting cast in strange and mysterious ways.

A strong comparison off the top of my head would be someone like Paul Pierce, a star and leading scorer on his team, but always outshone by a more athletic and more brilliant contemporary (Kobe).

From a sheer statistical perspective, I'd also compare Melo to Kevin Durant, though Durant seems to be outpacing Melo in awesomeness.

Alternatively, Basketball-Reference gives him some extremely interesting similar players, who I don't really see as all that similar...:
Shane Battier, John Havlicek, Jamal Wilkes, and Mehmet Okur.

But back on topic, the Linsanity lineup CAN win... but there are some obvious changes - we now have a functional Baron Davis, offensive-powerhouse JR Smith, Jorts, a semi-gimpy Anthony... and all we've lost is Bill Walker and JJ2.

I totally agree, Melo should no be compare to Dirk in any way, shape or form (Dirk was wayyyyy better). On the other hand Pierce and Melo is a much better comparison.

okay fine, let's compare Melo to another Hall of Famer instead

Well I think that Pierce is the type of player that Melo should look to emulate. He too had a shoddy rep until he won and became a better team player. Melo certainly has the talent that pierce has.

fair enough.

maybe I was unclear or was misinterpreted... don't know. The entire reason I brought Dirk up in the first place was because he was surrounded by role players and depth that complimented his skillset. Dirk has holes to his game but brings more to the table than he takes off. Dirk and Melo could not be more different as players but I think Melo's situation is a lot like Dirk's was and that turned out all right. That's all I was trying to say

Dirk and Melo are in very comparable situations, but Pierce is a better comparison to Melo. I do think Melo has more talent than Pierce but obviously has a lot to prove, just like Pierce did at his age.

Pierce slipped when he was drafted so he came into the league with a chip on his shoulder. Guys drafted ahead of him: Olowokandi, Bibby, Raef LaFrentz, Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter, Robert Traylor, Jason Wiliams, Larry Hughes, Dirk,

Melo not so much but he's never been talked about the way Lebron has, he hasn't won a trophy like DWade. Hopefully he's got that same chip.

Big difference:

Pierce stuck with the same team and endured some TERRIBLE seasons with Boston so he knew a good thing when he had it with KG and Ray Allen.

POWNED Lebron in the Cleveland series in some huge moments, ditto against Kobe.

Hope Melo's career arc follows the same path.

misterearl wrote:Well Done

smackeddog wrote:So here's where we're at:

Melo- Groin, could miss games
Amar'e- back, probably done for the season
JJ- Knee, out 2 weeks
Lin- Knee, could be ongoing issue
BD- back, hamstring- limited to 20mins a game
Tyson- sore wrist, but playing well despite it
Bill Walker- out til end of April
Bibby- age- contributes very little indeed
TD- nothing to contribute

So really, healthy players-wise that just leaves us:

Shump (may have ongoing knee tendonitis issues)
Jorts
Novak
JR Smith
Jerome Jordan
Fields

A Friendly Addendum

Just Sayin'

Melo - Groin, could will miss games
Amar'e - back, probably done for the season
JJ - Knee, out 2 weeks, one more false step away from being done for the season
Lin - Knee, could be ongoing issue
BD - back, hamstring- limited to 20mins a game
Tyson - sore wrist, but playing well despite it
Bill Walker- out til end of April
Bibby - age- contributes very little indeed
TD - nothing to contribute

So really, healthy players-wise that just leaves us:

(by position)

1. Shump (may have ongoing knee tendonitis issues)
2. JR Smith, streaky like Starks and nearly as much fun to watch
3. Fields - rebounding
4. Novak - scoring
5. Jorts, opportunity knocks, could be a formidable bodyguard for Chandler on the glass

Jerome Jordan - see TD

Hey, it could happen.

Mob deeply broken...