jazz74 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

TheSage wrote:Jackson, Riley and Auerbach all had a few things in common they had key players, a sound system, knowledge and leadership but the one thing which places Red above the others is that he built the teams he coached- he traded an all star center fora draft choice, he drafted a junior and waited a year for him to graduate. No other coach built and coached like that. Since we are talking Jackson-he walked into a situation in Chicago where he got arguably the greatest player of all time together with a great no. 2 and built a system around them, walked into a situation where the players worked well in his system. Do the knick players fit his system? Can they fit it-does he really want the headaches, the media frenzy?

He inherietd a team that won 47 games the year before.

Most look at the names and they were in place but think they were going to be great anyway.

He grew that team.

Riley took over a team that had one a championship inside of 18 mos. They already were champs.

Big difference.

Red Auerbach did it as a coach, and them as GM. Dude was amazing.

Riley went to knicks and did not get it done, and Only had one chip in Miami after being JVG's Biitch with playoff loses except for the "fight".

Riley is over rated.

Look at Phil Jaxs roster objectively. He won with a lot of role players stepping up and doing amazing things.

riley overrated? did you see that knicks roster in 94 that he took to the finals and eight points away from a championship? he is a great coach. now is he better than phil? cant say because phil is such a motivator and plays mind games better than anyone. his system will work wonders with melo because melo is comfortable on the elbow which kobe and mj do their magic in the system. also he is a great post up player. this is also a coach that you better respect to get rid of that stigma. marbury had the same situation with brown and blew it but i think melo wont have that problem. i think chandler will do well in the triangle but stoudemire and lin might be the odd people out. another thing jax has done, however, is tweak the triangle to fit the strengths of his best players. the triangle he ran in chi town is different than what he ran in la. as a matter of fact, the triangle with the chicago team in the first three championship run is different than the one he ran in the last three. this is the best choice and if dolan is smart, he will listen to whetever jax says about what he needs and get out of the way, which is what i am worried about.

I never said Riley was a bad coach.

Over rated in terms of when he is mentioned with the great ones.

At the same time there are only two coaches who have more rings than Riles.

My arguement is weak if based on ring count. I don't like Riles. I should take my self out of the arguement.

I think my take is that Riles coached 24 years and after his 4 showtime teams which were basically a core that had already won with Paul Westhead he got thos 4 rings at the front end of Laker run. 4 rings in his first 6 years with a ready made team. Then he got only one more ring in 18 seasons.

So his run was concentrated in the front end and he coached 24 years.

Auerbach needed 11 years until he won his first, then got 9 in a 10 year period. Dude ran off EIGHT IN A ROW!

Phil got his in his 3rd season and took over for a team that won 47 the year before he got on. Then gets 6 in the next 8 years. He won 11 of 20 years. Or 9 years without. Half of Riley.

Red had Russell. Phil had Jordan. JOrdan played 5 seasons before he got Phil. No rings before Phil.

To me Riles Ring in Miami is tainted as he undercut SVG and took over the team for the season and made a nice run to finish the season. They count of course. Riles was the GM so it was his de-facto team in a way.

I guess in my mind Riles was in the right place at the start of his career and the rest, 19 seasons, many with very very good teams I don't think he is in that uber talent that Phil and Red would be in.

He has 5 rings. I think he is a two ring kind of talent.

That puts him in good company though.

Just one mans opinion.

Not because Phil is too old to return but he's too smart to be a James Dolan puppet. Walsh is a similar thinker to Jackson. Jackson would never stand for any Dolan BS.

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster0506.html It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

I think I agree with Nlod, that Riley actually had a much better and championship proven team with the Lakers than Phil Jax did. But that aside, what coach now avaialable would you take over PJax? You already know I wanted MDA to be here and to win so not arguing that. But now that we have Woody who will basically either cater to Melo's every whim like Mike Brown did for Lebron or he will be on a bus headed to oblivion the first time Melo tunes out his yelling. You need a coach with that level of credibility to make anything work with Melo, anybody else will be part of the revolving door rotation.

The only guy in my mind is Popovitch

loweyecue wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm on record as saying that as great as PJax is perceived to be he's not a miracle worker. It's not like he dragged so, so teams to the finals every year. Riley's Knicks weren't legendary rosters. Even his Heat team that won a title wasn't a particularly good team outside of DWade and Shaq. http://www.nba.com/heat/roster/roster0506.html It wasn't The Houston Rockets Rudy T. or Detroit Pistons L.B. or even a Rick Carlisle Mavs type challenge.

This would no doubt be one of Phil's biggest challenges. In the toughest city to try and do it without the best talent in the league leading the team. I just wonder if Phil would risk taking the hit to his legacy or would he view this as the ultimate challenge and crowning accomplishment to his career?

I think I agree with Nlod, that Riley actually had a much better and championship proven team with the Lakers than Phil Jax did. But that aside, what coach now avaialable would you take over PJax? You already know I wanted MDA to be here and to win so not arguing that. But now that we have Woody who will basically either cater to Melo's every whim like Mike Brown did for Lebron or he will be on a bus headed to oblivion the first time Melo tunes out his yelling. You need a coach with that level of credibility to make anything work with Melo, anybody else will be part of the revolving door rotation.

The only guy in my mind is Popovitch

So Popovitch is now available for the Knicks coaching job?

No ...

He is the only coach that I would be interested over PJax (if he were available)

I see you said "coach now available" - so it was not your question - sorry. Just saying that he is the only coach overall that I put higher.

loweyecue wrote:First three game skid and the media will be on Woodson like a duck on a junebug. I don't think he will last into next season.

rightfully so. with the amount of games left, we cant afford a three game skid.