jrodmc wrote:subzero0 wrote:subzero0 wrote:jrodmc wrote:mrKnickShot wrote:jrodmc wrote:CashMoney wrote:subzero0 wrote:jrodmc wrote:subzeroO wrote:Oh, but please, dont let logic and facts get in your way. Lets continue to do things the way we have been because it has been so successful for us. This year was great wasnt it, we've been wracked with injuries, lost a coach, and are trying to avoid a sweep in the first round. What an improvement from last year, right. The knicks have to change the way they are building the team.
Yes, of course, and you leave out all those other teams (like the Knicks) who did the same thing and did not win a chip.
Drafted Patrick Ewing. Signed free agents. Did not win a chip.
Bulls, drafted Rose, signed free agents. Didn not win a chip...
OKC, drafted Durant, signed free agents, Did not win a chip...
Denver, drafted Melo, signed free agents, Did not win a chip...
and the list goes on.
You act like drafting people like MJ and Kobe and Duncan can happen every year.
And how does your Lakers...Shaq...examples fit your equation?
Seriously, Detroit won chips because they drafted Chauncey Billups?
What does your list prove? That you can cut and paste and pick a star player on the team that won?
This is professional basketball, it's not the Cooking Channel.
And I suppose changing how the team is built will keep us from coaching changes and being wracked with injuries?
The lakers had a draft day acquisition in someone named Kobe Bryant. Maybe youve heard of him? Shaq was a free agent that they signed to the team and together they won some championships. The detroit pistons drafted Tayshaun Prince and signed Chauncey Billups.
Thank you for helping me prove my point.
I have given you over 20 teams that have won that way and you tried to give me two. Tried, the operative word. If you dont get a championship level player and things dont pan out, clean your slate and get back to the lottery. Yes, the chances of getting that player and winning a championship that way maybe 1/30 but they are a hell lot better than 0% chance.
The problem with operating the way the knicks are operating is they will never be good enough to beat the best and always be bad enough to not get a top draft pick. Its called limbo and it only lends itself to team mediocrity. The cycle has to be broken. Unless ofcourse you like the way the Knicks are going?
Remove the greatest player of all time and how many chips are we talking about?
Don't worry, he loves to repeat himself. It's called cut and paste disease.
All any team has to do is draft 17th and sign possibly one of the most dominant centers in the history of the sport, and Voila! Chip.
Every team could do that. Ask Portland.
Well actually trade Vlade Divac for #17!
Between that trade and the Gasol trade it seems to me that you just need to look for the idiot GM/Owner to help change your franchise.
So it's very simple:
1) Draft one of the top 10 players to ever exist.
1a) Get an idiot GM/Owner to trade you one of the top 10 players to ever exist.
2) Sign a top 10 player as a free agent. Two, if they happen to be available. See the Celtics and Kevin McHale
3) Ensure there are a steady stream of 20 or so idiot GMs/owners who will provide you with 1a and 2.
Life is so simple when you only see one side of an equation.
No my plan is a little more like this.
1) Clean house
2) Because youve cleaned house you now have a high probability of getting a championship level player
3) Draft
a. This part is scout critical
4) Wait 1.5 - 2 seasons to see if the player is championship level quality
5) If the player was good but not good enough trade him GOTO LINE 1 ELSE LINE 6
6) Because you have the championship level player's Bird Rights and you're New York, you have a high probability of signing this player for more money than he is being offered anywhere else.
a. If the player does not want to resign GOTO LINE 1
7) Congratulations you have a young promising team.
a. Because you have a young promising team, a young championship level player, and you're New York you can now attract good free agents
8) Because you have signed your young player with his bird rights you have room under the cap for two max free agents.
a. You also now have enough cash left to sign very good complimentary players.
b. Because you have the cash and your back is not against the wall you can sign the best young max players out there. Low probability of getting injury prone players.
9) Find and sign two max contract level players to your team.
a. This part is scout critical
b. Congratulations you now have 3 great players with low probability of injury.
10) If you have not won a championship 4 seasons from this point GOTO LINE 1 ELSE LINE 11
11) Congratulations you've achieved something you werent able to by just signing free agents and making idiotic trades. Have a cookie.
Jrod, any comments?
So your plan could break down to:
1) Clean house
2) Draft really well. Sign really well.
2) Wait 5 years for a chip
3) If no chip, rinse, repeat.
You really need to increase your reading material beyond the backs of shampoo bottles while sitting on the ****ter.
Subzero, "your" theory works. Sometimes. But if you go through NBA history back to the 80's, you'll see it's not that simple. For every Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, there are 15 or so Sixers, Orlando's, Clippers, Nets, Knicks, who followed your plan and didn't get a chip. If professional basketball was as simple as the back of your local hair care product, wouldn't there be more parity in the league? All I'm saying is you don't get to say, all you need to build Microsoft or Apple or Google is A, B, and C and repeat until it happens. There are way too many variables. You don't mention coaching, you don't mention injuries, you don't mention the fact that "because your New York" doesn't always get you the best quality free agents out there, and your go back and clean house cycle will not keep your job as GM for very long in this city. Or did the Knicks suddenly move to New Jersey?
Do you honestly think the other billionaires and GM's of the league have never heard of the concept of drafting a franchise HOF player and signing really great free agents?
Wait 5 years and then start all over again? That might fly in Sacramento or Washington or Denver, where pro basketball is a true afterthought; do you really think it's going to fly here?
Not sure what your obsession is about hair products, but yea, different strokes for different blokes I guess.
Its not a theory, its a template. There is a template that every championship team, since the advent of the draft lottery, has followed. Yes it is not simple and yes there is probability involved but that is how it is done. You have to roll the dice. Right now the Knicks arent even part of the game.
This template works because it keeps the team under the cap, while giving the team a good probability of getting 3 good max level players, young player with bird rights included, who arent injury prone and still plenty of room under the cap for excellent roll players. What the knicks are doing now has 0 chance of success. Knicks are signing free agents first, killing their cap, they wont even have enough to resign the players they have this summer much less add help to this team, which i believe is something we all can agree the Knicks desperately need.
But then, what is success? If you think success is avoiding a sweep in the first round, then you should be smiling ear to ear. If you think success is getting to the first or second round of the playoffs only to get beaten badly, then congratulations, the Knicks are your team. If you think success is putting players out there who have no chance of winning a championship but will sell out every game and make a lot of money for ownership, then great, that is what you have. But if you think success is winning a championship with the possibility of winning multiple championships then you cannot expect the Knicks to do this while Dolan continues to build the team with an inordinate emphasis on the principle of building a team free agent first.
Building a team draft first with free agency afterwards does not guarantee that you will win a championship. But you know what? There is a greater chance of success. No team has ever won a championship building the way the Knicks are building. Every team that has won a championship since the 80's has had this template. Which do you think is the better course?
Who said I was a GM? Im appealing to Dolan.
5/7/2012 10:58 PM
