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Judgment Out - Iseah Messed It All Up
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newyorknewyork
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3/3/2004  3:21 PM
Dampier & Wallace don't have to be the final part of the building. Zeke already said that he is not going to stop building until he wins a championship. Then after that he will see how he can build from that. But If we could get Dampier & Wallace then compete as Penny & Houston & Anderson's contract come off the books. And as Sweetney-Williams-DJ become better players that will either make an impact on the team or be traded for players who will. And again we didn't give up ALL our draft picks. We would be in great position to be a championship contender.
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Stevo718
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3/4/2004  10:44 AM
newyorknewyork --->>> You bring up so many good points, and it's good to see a fan with some smarts.

Any fan that can't see the HUGE difference between how Layden ran things and Isiah ran things needs to check themselves.

Common people, BOTTOM LINE- Knicks are watchable now and you can actually look forward to the future.

Give this new team some time!!!

When we traded for KVH that was one position that got changed, so that did not effect chemistry.
When we traded for Marbury we gave up McDyess and other players that did not play so once again the chemistry remained uneffected.
Now by trading KVH we have TT AND Nazir and on top of all that we are playing different lineups everyday!
Why? Because our 4, 5 spots before the trade were questionable and Isiah saw this, now we are trying to figure out the best combination for the 4 and 5 cause come playoff time we have to have stability at the 4, 5 and players that play like a 4, and 5. Not 4 and 5's that play like 2 n 3's(KT, Doleac etc.)
So have some damn patience, sometimes it takes teams a season to gel. Perhaps by gelling by the playoffs that might build up some momentum at just the right time and carry us into Eastern Finals (anything can happen, remember it's the Knicks).
jazz74
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3/4/2004  11:22 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I guess I have to come save the day for all the posters that have hope but aren't coming out and are letting the negativity run the board.

#1 We are still in 6th seed.
#2 We just got Houston back and have had 2 days of practice to get quality chemistry and rhythem going
#3 The March schedule isn't hard at all we have a lot of home games vs ATL division teams who all suck.
#4 We still have Sweetney-Williams-Demarr-Muhammad-Thomas all young and all getting better & better
#5 We have Sheed saying he wants to come here as a FA.
#6 We have Mutombo & Harrington entering there walking yrs after this season so a team looking for cap space can offer us a Dampier or Rahim type player.
#7 KT is also a FA this coming season making him a very tradable player and if he is resigned for midlevel like he is supposed to he is even more tradable.
#8 T.Thomas & Hardaway's contracts run out the yr after next making them tradeable assest for teams looking for cap space and are giving up players like Rahim or Dampier.
#9 We gave up 2 picks in the next 6yrs which means we still have 4 picks in the next 6yrs I can deal with that.
#10 TT, Marbury, Mutombo, KT, Muhammad, Sweetney, Williams, Norris, Trybanski, Harrington are all tradeable so we are not stuck.
#11 They have there mid level to improve the team even if they don't land Sheed they can still land Swift.
#12 With Marbury-Williams-Houston-Hardaway-Thomas-Anderson we have the deepest PG-SF in the east. Which all bring different styles which will make us tough to matchup with in the playoffs.
#13 Thomas has a great ability to trade the undesireable as he did with Eisley & Spoon. He also balanced the lineup from before and added a superstar & youth. I have trust in his plan.
#14 The team is 13-14 after the Marbury trade and the majority of that was without Houston. We could be 20-7 after the trade if we had him healthy for those 13games. We are 26-34 because of the team we had before Marbury. Marbury-Houston-Thomas-Thomas-Muhammad is good enough to win the 700. of the games in March.

Im sure im missing some more things but u guys get the point. Lets at least finish the season and see where we are. After we make playoffs we see how these veteran play in the playoffs. Then we can see what Zeke does in the Offseason. My hope is for Dampier & Wallace. Dampier using KT & Mutombo as bait. Wallace with the midlevel.

well, ny, you brought up a lot of points. very good ones. i think the one factor that is overlooked with the kvh trade is that we got back two tradeable players. van horn could be a tough trade. but we got back two athletic players in a very athletic league. these are also players that can be used to get other players without much of a hassle. so it is a trade for our future. i forgot swift will be a free agent. he could be the athletic pf we need. imagine naz, swift and timmy t manning the frontcourt? man, damage in the paint. highlight abound. ( by the way, that tim thomas dunk over dalembert last night was NASTY!)
newyorknewyork
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3/4/2004  11:41 AM
We are all die hard fans and we all want a championship. My learning experience for posting on a message board for 3yrs is that Knicks fans have the ability to overreact. If we play bad then we are bad forever and we have no future. If we play good we are only one player away from a championship. So sometimes some posters need to take the responsibility to try and even everything out.

No I didn't like what I saw in the 6 game winning streak. But I also know that they COULD play better than that especially with Houston coming back and the easier schedule. Also we have a lot of options and roads to take to keep building a championship calibre team so it ignorant to say that we have no future. We all know Zeke has the ability to make moves we will never be stuck.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 03/04/2004 23:06:37]
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gunsnewing
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3/4/2004  12:15 PM
The rotation is really simple to me. Just keep Shandon, Othella, Moochie and Cezary out of it.
Nalod
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3/4/2004  2:29 PM
Where is Leon?
MaTT4281
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3/4/2004  7:43 PM
You're right...damn that Isiah, brought us an all star point guard, replaced a coach that everyone has been complaining about, and can you believe he had the nerve to bring us a new, better, and younger starting center along with a nice THIRD scoring option. Not to mention he made NY a team people want to play for...ie Rasheed. Damn him straight to hell
NYK8
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3/4/2004  8:59 PM
lol,yo Matt.it just baffles me to see some of these people think the way they do.the knicks were dead the past what 2-3yrs headin nowhere wit no playoffs.then Zeke comes in and brought the knicks to life n got the nerve to complain.
!!!Knicks!!!
jazz74
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3/5/2004  8:16 AM
Posted by NYK8:

lol,yo Matt.it just baffles me to see some of these people think the way they do.the knicks were dead the past what 2-3yrs headin nowhere wit no playoffs.then Zeke comes in and brought the knicks to life n got the nerve to complain.

its almost like people are not happy unless there is something to complain about. our lineup was downright awful in the beginning of the season. we stunk up our own arena and people actually fell asleep watching our games. then isaih comes in a turns everything around. i love all, yes all, of the moves he made. when layzie was running the show, i got to the point that i felt apathy about my team. it got to the point beyond angry but just "i don't care" attitude with this team and only vent on this board. now zeke gives us a sliver of hope and people are saying he did too much. man, what he did was LONG overdue. he had to make up for lost time, about three years of lost time.
TRU
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3/5/2004  9:57 AM
The funniest thing about this board is how sentiments change after every game. If you look at the first page of this thread, all you can see is naysayers. Page two is full of well-wishers reacting to the Philly game.

At least with playa you get posting consistency (if not consistency of opinion). If you like where this team is (as I do), post your appreciation after the losses as well as the wins, man. My signature has been exactly the same ALL YEAR.

[Edited by - TRU on 03/05/2004 09:58:06]

[Edited by - TRU on 03/05/2004 09:58:49]
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
playa2
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3/5/2004  10:11 AM
Posted by TRU:

The funniest thing about this board is how sentiments change after every game. If you look at the first page of this thread, all you can see is naysayers. Page two is full of well-wishers reacting to the Philly game.

At least with playa you get posting consistency (if not consistency of opinion). If you like where this team is (as I do), post your appreciation after the losses as well as the wins, man. My signature has been exactly the same ALL YEAR.

[Edited by - TRU on 03/05/2004 09:58:06]

[Edited by - TRU on 03/05/2004 09:58:49]

Tru, thanks for bringing up that point that is overlooked by even the mods. Guys bash me all the time and I don't waiver, but they waiver on both sides of the fence and then have the nerve to critique me and talk about (CREDIBILTY). You all know who you are.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
simrud
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3/5/2004  10:40 AM
There arent no fence, there is just the reality of the situation. Before the the 6th game loosing steak the team looked great. Iseah looked how he could do no wrong. Then we got to see the resutls of the trade. Amplifed by the absence of Houston. So any reasonable person had to change their mind. Steaking to your agenda no matter what is actually going on is not anything to be proud of. Opinions should change game to game because things in basketball change game to game to.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gunsnewing
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3/5/2004  10:47 AM
Exactly Simrud!!

thats the most intelligent post I've ever read here!
TRU
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3/5/2004  11:08 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

Exactly Simrud!!

thats the most intelligent post I've ever read here!

Wow, and that says something.

Sim, are you serious with the "any reasonable person would change their mind" crap? Maybe we're not clear on what the word "reasonable" means.

Reasonable is giving a team more than 6 games to jel when they lose two of their top three scorers (injury and trade), without making a snap judgment that would force you to "change your mind" a week later.

Reasonable is allowing TT and H20 enough time to get used a radically different environment before condemming them as scapegoats for a recent losing streak.

Reasonable is waiting till the end of the year AT LEAST to render judgment on a coach who took over a losing team, completely turned over through trades a few weeks before the all star break.

Reasonable is NOT switching opinions with every passing gust of wind. It is pretty unintelligent, if you want to throw around adjectives. This isn't a chatboard about your favorite InSync member--we're men here. This is about our beloved Knickerbockers. So show some consistency and perspective and stop acting like girls.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
playa2
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3/5/2004  12:11 PM
THANKS TRU, some really can't see themselves.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
simrud
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3/5/2004  12:55 PM
Bro, get this, we are talking about a basketball team. There are plenty of things more important out there, this is a game, and one major fun part of it is the fact that as opposed to the GM's, coaches, and players, we fans can change our minds on things quickly and whenever we want too. If I feel that Lenny is not so good now, I don't care if I thought he was better before. I'm not held accounatble to anything, I did not hire him.

And just for the record, one game usually does not change my opinion, 6 games however do. And not because of the losses, but because of the way the games are lost. If you would actually watch the games you would see an incredible lack of effort by virually every player, absence of fundamentals, and to's upon to's followed by dumb fells. 6 games of stuff like that are sure to change the mind of anybody who bothers to watch.

Thankfully the Sixers game was good, very good effort by all players, and that is the most important thing.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
playa2
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3/5/2004  1:40 PM
Posted by simrud:

Bro,

And just for the record, one game usually does not change my opinion, 6 games however do. And not because of the losses, but because of the way the games are lost. If you would actually watch the games you would see an incredible lack of effort by virually every player, absence of fundamentals, and to's upon to's followed by dumb fells. 6 games of stuff like that are sure to change the mind of anybody who bothers to watch.

Thankfully the Sixers game was good, very good effort by all players, and that is the most important thing.



So why when I posted The team will let down after the trading deadline is over because Zeke wouldn't be able to trade them anymore you were all over my comments like a bad suit.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
simrud
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3/5/2004  3:32 PM
Because that post was not based on anything. We just had a nice strech, lost 2 tough games on the road w/out Thomas, but that's no reason to say we are gonna suck. Anyways, you can what you want, everybody is entitled to their opinon, and disagreeing is not being all over somebody, its debating, hence this forum lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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