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MSG3
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3/7/2012  12:22 AM
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Melo has been in this system for over a year. This is the only system STAT has ever known. Lin has shown he can excel in this system as has Chandler when Melo and STAT were out. I think the excuse of "needing time to gel" is overrated. Whats mostnimportantnis for the most important pieces to gel. We have all the talent a franchise could ask for. To me it's simple: either Melo is not trying to work in this system or D'Antoni is not doing a good job of coaching....or both.

How long is it going to take? Why can't D'Antoni coach his players from the sidelines during the game? Why is it so hard for everyone to move without the ball? We are squandering the talent we have and I don't know if there's a clear answer. But look at Miami last year, Boston their first year together, Indiana this year.....these are teams that went throug a lot of change and were able to succeed the way people expected. Yes, Miami struggled early but then dominated until the NBA finals.

I know we almost beat Boston and we came back tonight. But it's clear we have no identity and it's clear we're not very good.

What is wrong with the NY Knicks?

no. melo has been on the team for a calendar year, that is all.

For a player of his caliber isn't that enough to understand what he needs to do? Isn't that enough time for MDA to figure out how to bend his system for a "Star" talent?

have you payed attention to what has at all happened? Lockout? PG? Injury?

I've been to almost every home game for 5 seasons. I've been paying attention. Every team had to deal with a lockout and injuries. Look at Indy. They incorporated some new important players and they are fine. And now we have a PG. isn't it concerning that we don't even see signs of our superstar playing like one or our coach trying to make adjustments to the same things that hurt us every game?

All I want to know is everyone's opinion of what is wrong. I dont think the lockout, injury and PG excuses can be used any more.

Have you paid attention to how many teams we've lost to on their back to backs, how many times we start off slow, come back, get blown out in the 3rd and have to claw back to just fall short? Or how we continue to get killed on our defensive switches? Or a ton of other maddening things that our coaches and players seemingly can't fix?

Melo has played with Lin for what... 6 games? With exactly 3 practices. Are you suggesting they should be playing as well as say Collison and Granger?

You stated that Melo has been in the system for a year, which I said was wrong because of Lockout, injuries, etc.

Collison and Granger had to adjust to David West and George Hill taking minutes and adjusting to new roles and coaching and they have been very good. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Melo to be playing like he knows what he's doing out there. Melo/Lin doesn't have to be Stockton/Malone, but Lin has been good for most of his first month of real playing time in the league. Melo is a superstar Veteran and should be better than he is at this point. Why can't we expect the Knicks to be playing AT LEAST as good as the Pacers?

And this isn't only about Melo. I really like Melo and think he's one of the best in the game. This is more about what the problem is with the team and what can the coaches do to fix it. It seems like the same problems every game for the most part.

i see Melo missing a TON of shots.

This is true. He is missing a lot of shots. Maybe it's just a bad stretch. And maybe STAT is finally coming to life and they'll get it going together. But we still need to make adjustments to what other teams consistently do to us on both ends of the floor. Doubling Lin, exposing switches, lack of off the ball movement....coaches have to figure these things out. Doc, Carlisle, Thibedeau....these guys routinely make other coaches look like amateurs. Why can't Mike do things during the game?

AUTOADVERT
martin
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3/7/2012  12:59 AM
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Melo has been in this system for over a year. This is the only system STAT has ever known. Lin has shown he can excel in this system as has Chandler when Melo and STAT were out. I think the excuse of "needing time to gel" is overrated. Whats mostnimportantnis for the most important pieces to gel. We have all the talent a franchise could ask for. To me it's simple: either Melo is not trying to work in this system or D'Antoni is not doing a good job of coaching....or both.

How long is it going to take? Why can't D'Antoni coach his players from the sidelines during the game? Why is it so hard for everyone to move without the ball? We are squandering the talent we have and I don't know if there's a clear answer. But look at Miami last year, Boston their first year together, Indiana this year.....these are teams that went throug a lot of change and were able to succeed the way people expected. Yes, Miami struggled early but then dominated until the NBA finals.

I know we almost beat Boston and we came back tonight. But it's clear we have no identity and it's clear we're not very good.

What is wrong with the NY Knicks?

no. melo has been on the team for a calendar year, that is all.

For a player of his caliber isn't that enough to understand what he needs to do? Isn't that enough time for MDA to figure out how to bend his system for a "Star" talent?

have you payed attention to what has at all happened? Lockout? PG? Injury?

I've been to almost every home game for 5 seasons. I've been paying attention. Every team had to deal with a lockout and injuries. Look at Indy. They incorporated some new important players and they are fine. And now we have a PG. isn't it concerning that we don't even see signs of our superstar playing like one or our coach trying to make adjustments to the same things that hurt us every game?

All I want to know is everyone's opinion of what is wrong. I dont think the lockout, injury and PG excuses can be used any more.

Have you paid attention to how many teams we've lost to on their back to backs, how many times we start off slow, come back, get blown out in the 3rd and have to claw back to just fall short? Or how we continue to get killed on our defensive switches? Or a ton of other maddening things that our coaches and players seemingly can't fix?

Melo has played with Lin for what... 6 games? With exactly 3 practices. Are you suggesting they should be playing as well as say Collison and Granger?

You stated that Melo has been in the system for a year, which I said was wrong because of Lockout, injuries, etc.

Collison and Granger had to adjust to David West and George Hill taking minutes and adjusting to new roles and coaching and they have been very good. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Melo to be playing like he knows what he's doing out there. Melo/Lin doesn't have to be Stockton/Malone, but Lin has been good for most of his first month of real playing time in the league. Melo is a superstar Veteran and should be better than he is at this point. Why can't we expect the Knicks to be playing AT LEAST as good as the Pacers?

And this isn't only about Melo. I really like Melo and think he's one of the best in the game. This is more about what the problem is with the team and what can the coaches do to fix it. It seems like the same problems every game for the most part.

i see Melo missing a TON of shots.

This is true. He is missing a lot of shots. Maybe it's just a bad stretch. And maybe STAT is finally coming to life and they'll get it going together. But we still need to make adjustments to what other teams consistently do to us on both ends of the floor. Doubling Lin, exposing switches, lack of off the ball movement....coaches have to figure these things out. Doc, Carlisle, Thibedeau....these guys routinely make other coaches look like amateurs. Why can't Mike do things during the game?

I think that's an over generalization. Did MDA make Carlisle look like an amateur last game they played? Or in the beginning of the 4th? Sometimes you lose and sometimes your best players aren't living up to their billing.

If Melo hits 50% of his shots, maybe Knicks win and we don't even have this conversation.

I like to push responsibility to players.

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mrKnickShot
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3/7/2012  2:03 AM
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Melo has been in this system for over a year. This is the only system STAT has ever known. Lin has shown he can excel in this system as has Chandler when Melo and STAT were out. I think the excuse of "needing time to gel" is overrated. Whats mostnimportantnis for the most important pieces to gel. We have all the talent a franchise could ask for. To me it's simple: either Melo is not trying to work in this system or D'Antoni is not doing a good job of coaching....or both.

How long is it going to take? Why can't D'Antoni coach his players from the sidelines during the game? Why is it so hard for everyone to move without the ball? We are squandering the talent we have and I don't know if there's a clear answer. But look at Miami last year, Boston their first year together, Indiana this year.....these are teams that went throug a lot of change and were able to succeed the way people expected. Yes, Miami struggled early but then dominated until the NBA finals.

I know we almost beat Boston and we came back tonight. But it's clear we have no identity and it's clear we're not very good.

What is wrong with the NY Knicks?

no. melo has been on the team for a calendar year, that is all.

For a player of his caliber isn't that enough to understand what he needs to do? Isn't that enough time for MDA to figure out how to bend his system for a "Star" talent?

have you payed attention to what has at all happened? Lockout? PG? Injury?

I've been to almost every home game for 5 seasons. I've been paying attention. Every team had to deal with a lockout and injuries. Look at Indy. They incorporated some new important players and they are fine. And now we have a PG. isn't it concerning that we don't even see signs of our superstar playing like one or our coach trying to make adjustments to the same things that hurt us every game?

All I want to know is everyone's opinion of what is wrong. I dont think the lockout, injury and PG excuses can be used any more.

Have you paid attention to how many teams we've lost to on their back to backs, how many times we start off slow, come back, get blown out in the 3rd and have to claw back to just fall short? Or how we continue to get killed on our defensive switches? Or a ton of other maddening things that our coaches and players seemingly can't fix?

Melo has played with Lin for what... 6 games? With exactly 3 practices. Are you suggesting they should be playing as well as say Collison and Granger?

You stated that Melo has been in the system for a year, which I said was wrong because of Lockout, injuries, etc.

Collison and Granger had to adjust to David West and George Hill taking minutes and adjusting to new roles and coaching and they have been very good. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Melo to be playing like he knows what he's doing out there. Melo/Lin doesn't have to be Stockton/Malone, but Lin has been good for most of his first month of real playing time in the league. Melo is a superstar Veteran and should be better than he is at this point. Why can't we expect the Knicks to be playing AT LEAST as good as the Pacers?

And this isn't only about Melo. I really like Melo and think he's one of the best in the game. This is more about what the problem is with the team and what can the coaches do to fix it. It seems like the same problems every game for the most part.

i see Melo missing a TON of shots.

This is true. He is missing a lot of shots. Maybe it's just a bad stretch. And maybe STAT is finally coming to life and they'll get it going together. But we still need to make adjustments to what other teams consistently do to us on both ends of the floor. Doubling Lin, exposing switches, lack of off the ball movement....coaches have to figure these things out. Doc, Carlisle, Thibedeau....these guys routinely make other coaches look like amateurs. Why can't Mike do things during the game?

I think that's an over generalization. Did MDA make Carlisle look like an amateur last game they played? Or in the beginning of the 4th? Sometimes you lose and sometimes your best players aren't living up to their billing.

If Melo hits 50% of his shots, maybe Knicks win and we don't even have this conversation.

I like to push responsibility to players.

What pct of the responsibility does the coach have? He is the one implementing the offense. He also is responsible to incorporate his players as best as possible. He calls the plays and instructs the defense / switching.

It can't be just the players.

50 50?

RoyBatty
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3/7/2012  9:54 AM
On Melo missing shots, what's your opinion guys? Is he taking shots within the flow of the system and within his range (in which case it's something he must work through) Or is he missing more shots because of bad spacing, him getting the ball at the wrong time and place (in which case it's a system problem)?
The only thing I can contribute I saw Melo shooting last night and his J didn't seem as smooth; he didn't seem to be elevatign as much and was relying more on his arms to get the shot off, follow through seemed off..
SlimChin
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3/7/2012  10:11 AM
combination of things IMO; Melo is trying to adjust to MDA's system but he's not a good fit for this type of team.

Also, let's be frank MDA simply isn't an elite coach. he doesn't know how to make adjustments and can't figure out what to do with the pieces that he's got. he doesn't know how to inspire his players and he doesn't take command of his team. he was out-coached by Doc Rivers up in Boston and last night by Rick Carlisle.

MSG3
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3/7/2012  10:25 AM
SlimChin wrote:combination of things IMO; Melo is trying to adjust to MDA's system but he's not a good fit for this type of team.

Also, let's be frank MDA simply isn't an elite coach. he doesn't know how to make adjustments and can't figure out what to do with the pieces that he's got. he doesn't know how to inspire his players and he doesn't take command of his team. he was out-coached by Doc Rivers up in Boston and last night by Rick Carlisle.

I agree with this. I don't think Melo is being a Diva or a Marbury. I believe he has tried to fit in but he's not being coached up. Yes his shooting is bad right now but that will be corrected. The bigger concern is that he is not moving around without the ball nearly enough. You look at every other good team and there is constant movement. When we play well it's beause people are moving around. The coaching staff has to demand that the players do certain things and it's not getting through. The players are responsible but the coaches are more so.

The time is coming very soon where we cannot use the "chemistry" excuses. This team needs to at least start performing consistently. I'm not even talking about winning 10 in a row. An identity needs to show itself and that's on the coaches.

SlimChin
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3/7/2012  10:42 AM
MSG3 wrote:
SlimChin wrote:combination of things IMO; Melo is trying to adjust to MDA's system but he's not a good fit for this type of team.

Also, let's be frank MDA simply isn't an elite coach. he doesn't know how to make adjustments and can't figure out what to do with the pieces that he's got. he doesn't know how to inspire his players and he doesn't take command of his team. he was out-coached by Doc Rivers up in Boston and last night by Rick Carlisle.

I agree with this. I don't think Melo is being a Diva or a Marbury. I believe he has tried to fit in but he's not being coached up. Yes his shooting is bad right now but that will be corrected. The bigger concern is that he is not moving around without the ball nearly enough. You look at every other good team and there is constant movement. When we play well it's beause people are moving around. The coaching staff has to demand that the players do certain things and it's not getting through. The players are responsible but the coaches are more so.

The time is coming very soon where we cannot use the "chemistry" excuses. This team needs to at least start performing consistently. I'm not even talking about winning 10 in a row. An identity needs to show itself and that's on the coaches.

but the bigger picture overall is Dolan; thinking that having 2 superstars are going to guarantee you a championship team without putting much thought about what might work in terms of team chemistry and D'Antoni's coaching philosophy. it was obvious that walsh and d'antoni weren't too happy about the trade—for good reason; maybe they knew it wasn't going to work. But Dolan decided to override everybody and blew his wad to get melo.

Melo is hall of famer but he's not going to get a ring with this coach IMO.

GoNyGoNyGo
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3/7/2012  11:26 AM
It's more than missing shots. Melo is not playing within the Team concept. At one point last night, he was being harassed by Marion. Lin was wide open 10 feet to his left and there was about 12-14 seconds left on the 24. He looked at Lin, looked away, put his head down and forced his way to the basket. The defense converged and blocked his shot. The ball went the other way and they scored. This is just 1 example of his selfishness. The other has to do with his jawing with Marion while throwing the ball away on an inbounds!

Putrid.

MS
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3/7/2012  11:53 AM
It's pretty embarrassing watching Melo play basketball. It's one thing to be limited in overall intelligence, but the guy has played basketball his entire life, what's that hard to grasp in this system. Wilson, Gallo, Felton, Lee, Chandler, Amare, Fields all seem to understand how a motion offense with spacing works.

We gave up a kings ransom for the guy we shouldnt have to adjust everything around the team because he's a moron that only plays isolation basketball.

soundcrib
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3/7/2012  12:07 PM
This "can Melo fit in the system?" BS is just that... BS. When he's shooting 39% from the field and 29% from three, it has nothing to do with the system. Individually, he's just lousy. He's missing chippies, he's missing open J's in front of and behind the arc. He's just missing everything. He's pouting. He believes he's struggling to fit in. Those are all just excuses for him being lousy. He's still getting plenty of shots but he's missing most of them, and that is what's bringing this team down. He's not very mentally strong. He's doesn't have enough Mamba or Truth in him. It's not his "style" of play, it's his actual play.

Again, 39% from the field and 29% from three.

Gymkata
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3/7/2012  12:12 PM
I like Carmelo Anthony. He is a gifted player and by all accounts a decent human being. I supported and still support the trade. But he is definitely having a year to forget and we are going nowhere if he can't contribute. He's shown flashes, like Amare (just once can we have these two guys erupt during the same game? Once?) but the inconsistency is maddening.

But enough with the "he hates the team concept" and "iso ball is the work of Satan" stuff. The man is obviously making an effort to mix things up and against Boston his off-ball movement was some of the best we've seen from him. He's also logging 3.9 assists, up from his career average and third on the team behind the two point guards.

He needs to be much, much better, no doubt, and I am as frustrated as everyone to see our max-contract star sputter so much--but I think it's a gross generalization to say the guy is a selfish d-bag, short-circuiting our offense.

"I can not say all the secrets."
Long Run

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