mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

holfresh wrote:I'm always amazed at how posters react to the individual eb and flow of individual games..We beat the Nets and Jazz and we think we are world beaters and know how to win...Without guys like Melo and STAT, we are not even a 30 win team..We are now quoting Jared Jeffries on team play...Carmelo has to buy in, really?..No one has changed their game more than Carmelo since he has been here..I have seen 30 win teams for most of the last decade...This team doesn't have a chance without Melo and STAT playing like they are capable of playing...Enjoy the ride, we found a backup PG and let's hope he hangs in there until BD can really get going...

Nobody is saying we can win without Melo - but if you think he has changed his game he better change it alot more to be a true winner. Jordan needed to do it so he does not have to be embarrassed. This has not changed with the Ebb and Flow of each game. This is a consistent problem that is brought up day in and day out.

He is arguably the best pure scorer in the League but he has to adjust to his team. Karl Malone, Jordan ... He can join the club, hopefully ...

How did Jordan change?

He was a super Chucker under doug collins. His team all hated him cause they never saw the ball. Jax had to change that.

Jordan was and has always been an ISO player..He averaged 23/24 shots per game with Phil as the coach...

Seriously? I am not sure if you are just messing around. They even made a movie about this.

Which part do u think I'm not serious about?
You gonna tell me Jordan wasn't ISO and he didnt take 23/24 shots a game?

He took alot of shots but when he was doubled, how great was he about hitting Paxon, Hodges, Kerr, Grant, Armstrong - he trusted his teammates and they in turn delivered. The knock on him early was that was much more selfish. Not necessarily in assists because he sometimes he was just forced to pass because the whole team was on him.

Jax came introduced the triangle got Jordan to buy in and become an unselfish part of the system. Of course he took many shots - geez he was jordan.

Initially, Jordan did not want Pjax because Pjax thought Jordan scored too much and Jordan did not want Pjax to come in and change that.

Every star needs to buy into the coaches philosophy and learn to trust his teammates if they wanna win. Melo will need to do the same. He is a great player and is a great passer but he needs to be a willing passer and he also needs to allow the offense to flow through Lin not him.

MDA does not run an ISO offense. JVG did and it worked for their personnel but it won't work here with this coach.

There are so many things I can respond to in this that I don't even know where to begin....Phil Jackson was on Collin's staff for two years before Jordan got Collins fired...It came down to it was either Jordan or Collins...So Phil did not need to "come in" he was already in...U know what..I don't have time...

Nalod wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:I don't agree with the title.

Im sure many are looking for any angle to discredit MDA and perhaps convince others he needs to go.

And that might come to be in time but the reality is Melo appears to be playing team ball and is passing.

Im sure we'd love to see him flip a switch and convert over nite but this is an on going process that takes time.

while we read over and over how inflexible MDA is, I don't hear what the solution is. As if letting Melo go Iso is the answer.

Melo can go for 30 every nite and we won't be more than a .500 team. If the concept is to employ the superior talent into the system that just takes time.

How much? I don't know.

With Lin we are seeing AGAIN (last year with felton) what a certain type point guard can do.

Last nite Lin was quoted talking about "the system" by which it creates space.

Utah was 13 and 9 coming in but not a good road team. Still, any victory over a .500 team is progress. He is excelling against Deron and Devon, both pretty good pts themselves.

What we saw last nite was a glimpse of why players want to play for MDA. Take a guy like Novak and plug him in and he looked like larry freaking bird for 10 minutes! Take a guy like Lin who was discarded by two teams has now killed two teams this week.

Can it continue? Is Lin the real deal?

Tune in. Its interesting!

i'm not blaming MDA. i'm saying Melo needs to buy in.

We agree.

Its not easy for melo to buy in. His whole life he has been a go to guy, and he does have very good moments when he is moving the ball. I loved the play last nite where he pulls his groin, limping he throws an "ooop" to chandler. Assist!

I was not for this trade but thats all been done, what I am watching is the transformation. I see it in spurts.

But lets not forget Melo is one of the games best closers so we can't take him all the way out of his game.

There is a time to iso, and a time to move the ball. He does not know when to trust his team when triple teamed and move the ball.

Took Jordan some time with Jax, it was not over nite.

I see progress. Maybe Melo and Karl were together too long to get it together.

Melo was young and hard headed building his career and earning those max contracts.

Melo had a choice coming here. I think he is bought in but it does not come easy. Lack of training camp did not help.

MDA also has to change as well...3 ball and no defense don't cut it in the playoffs...This team isn't built to suit what MDA preaches...You can blame Melo for "not buying in" but it's the coach who don't fit the players...

CashMoney wrote:Melo will be fine. It's amazing how people see what they want to see. See Melo waiving Lin off the ball but miss Melo driving and kicking it out to JJ for a wide open shot. Melo didn't pull his groin tkaing a shot last night, he pulled it on a post pass to Chandler for an assist. Melo has already bought into the system and now we have a PG to run the show. To say Melo doesn't pass the ball when doubled or tripled means people have selective memories.

He pulled his groin before he crossed mid-court.

Seriously guys, can't you just recognize good effort over the last four games and acknowledge it may be slowly turning things around? Or do you just spend all your time looking for new ways to blame the coach? The guy will get canned after this season. So can't you just watch the game without trying to find the next problem? Is that too much to ask for?

I am not very negative on this, Melo has show signs of being willing to learn. He may be even more frustrating than TD to anyone trying to teach him. TD is a third string scrub, Melo is perpetual all star. You can't just tell him what to do over and over. You need to devise a plan where you let him meet you halfway there. Part of this has to come from Melo himself. I think we will be ok.

crzymdups wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Oooh! We found another problem with MDA. Yay!!
Being on the haters.

Seriously guys, can't you just recognize good effort over the last four games and acknowledge it may be slowly turning things around? Or do you just spend all your time looking for new ways to blame the coach? The guy will get canned after this season. So can't you just watch the game without trying to find the next problem? Is that too much to ask for?

this isn't about being an MDA hater. i like MDA.

but it's pretty clear that Melo has not bought in to the system here. do you think Melo has bought in?

and, yes, that's the point - I think MDA will be canned after this season. right now I'm enjoying it, but I'm a little sad that MDA won't be able to build here.

and i'm kinda grossed out that I think everyone knows, including Phil, that the only guy who will get Melo to buy in is Phil Jackson.

I should say I think Melo CAN buy in to a team play system - anyone who saw him get to the Western Conference finals with Billups and George Karl knows he can. But that's really the only season it felt like Melo was locked in and focused on the TEAM every night.

i'm not trying to be a hater, just talking about things I observe with the team i love.

how about this - I'll predict that while Melo is out for 2 weeks, if Amar'e comes back, the team will be at or near .500 when Melo returns. and maybe that'll wake melo up a bit, get a little buy in on his part. because the team could be really good if Melo was on board. the problem is - i don't know if Melo believes that. i think he thinks he has to do it all here.

I don't think he's had the proper chance to show if he has bought in or not. Without a PG, what was there to buy into?

I don't like the thought pattern of Melo and Mda not meshing, because essentially MDA is saying pass the ball, and Melo is not quite ready to give up on the idea that the Knicks are better off with him shooting against double teams, than they are with anyone else on the team shooting while open. At the beginning of the year, Melo blamed the team's poor performance last year, on the the emotional damage that the trading process involved, and how he was much more relaxed this year. That excuse is now out the window. It seems to me, that he is in the process of coming around toward his becoming a more unselfish passer.

Instead of being told, Melo simply needs to figure it out himself. The terrible record of the Knicks thus far this season speeds the moment of realization up significantly. I believe he will be a much more efficient player and less of a ball hog by around the end of February. He and Amare are very empirical. Ultimately they will do what it takes to win.

MDA is trying to get us to play championship basketball (e.g. sharing the ball on offense and getting open shots) while Melo is trying to play 1st round playoff basketball (going iso and taking a significant % of his shots with someone guarding him).

The latter option (Melo's way of playing) never wins championships because guys that do that (e.g. look at Pierce pre and post title) are not efficient and they hurt their respective teams because they are taking the most shots. When a team cannot score efficiently, they are 99.9% of the time not going to win a title.

Melo needs to adapt. D'Antoni is trying to give him some leeway with the iso but Melo has to determine when he can/can't go that route. It really shouldn't be that difficult as the first priority should be team basketball and if the shot clock is winding down or we need a last second bucket to win/tie, then Melo should get the ball to make a play (just like Kobe's Lakers and Jordan's Bulls would have done).

But when you see the guy try to force it on a # of possessions by running up the court and taking a contested shot within the first 12 seconds of the shot clock....I mean seriously. He is still like old Pierce, old Kobe, old Jordan (pre Phil Jax) and until he figures out how to be efficient and how to use his individual talent to make other guys better, then this team won't be a contender. That is what great players do and hell, Lin even showed that ability when he was running the offense for those 7 games (picking his spots).

If MDA can't get Melo to realize this, I don't know why we would chase him out of town for another coach (unless it's Phil Jax b/c he has specific experience getting stars to do this). Plus, even if we got Phil, you would have the opportunity cost of not getting the most out of Lin....

This is why I laugh when 90% of the fans think getting rid of is the answer.

eViL wrote:

s3231 wrote:To me it's actually pretty simple what the problem is....another way to say what crzy posted as his title.

MDA is trying to get us to play championship basketball (e.g. sharing the ball on offense and getting open shots) while Melo is trying to play 1st round playoff basketball (going iso and taking a significant % of his shots with someone guarding him).

The latter option (Melo's way of playing) never wins championships because guys that do that (e.g. look at Pierce pre and post title) are not efficient and they hurt their respective teams because they are taking the most shots. When a team cannot score efficiently, they are 99.9% of the time not going to win a title.

Melo needs to adapt. D'Antoni is trying to give him some leeway with the iso but Melo has to determine when he can/can't go that route. It really shouldn't be that difficult as the first priority should be team basketball and if the shot clock is winding down or we need a last second bucket to win/tie, then Melo should get the ball to make a play (just like Kobe's Lakers and Jordan's Bulls would have done).

But when you see the guy try to force it on a # of possessions by running up the court and taking a contested shot within the first 12 seconds of the shot clock....I mean seriously. He is still like old Pierce, old Kobe, old Jordan (pre Phil Jax) and until he figures out how to be efficient and how to use his individual talent to make other guys better, then this team won't be a contender. That is what great players do and hell, Lin even showed that ability when he was running the offense for those 7 games (picking his spots).

If MDA can't get Melo to realize this, I don't know why we would chase him out of town for another coach (unless it's Phil Jax b/c he has specific experience getting stars to do this). Plus, even if we got Phil, you would have the opportunity cost of not getting the most out of Lin....

This is why I laugh when 90% of the fans think getting rid of is the answer.

pretty much how i feel.

Me too!