nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.

Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.

A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.

D'antoni has no style. He never did.

I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.

"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.

If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.

And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.

I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.

both Nash and Diaw weren't nearly the players they were before getting into MDA's system.

You can talk chicken and egg all you want, but that is fact. MDA's system also benefited from having Nash run it.

I don't know why you would rely on a Biaw comment and call it conclusive evidence without knowing the context of question or answer.

Raving about Nash has nothing to do about NOT raving about something else. Perhaps beat writer asked "what are your thoughts on Nash?"

I agree about both Diaw and Nash putting up better numbers under D'Antoni. I also have thought saying D'Antoni can't win unless he has Nash at the point was a bit simplistic view. My point was that I think it has a bit more credibility after Diaw's comments. Diaw was being asked about his former coach because he had just had a huge game against him. Diaw was the one that brought up playing with Nash. If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.

When MDA 1st got a shot in the NBA he was on a poor team like most new NBA coaches. Rarely do they come into good situations. The 50 games in Denver in his 1st Head coaching job isn't fair to judge him on. The next shot he got he took over for Frank Johnson with the team in free fall and despite his final record the team retained him due to how the young players performed. The next year with Nash and a full Training camp to put in his system he excelled.

Coaches win with talent. When he's had talent and consistency he's won. I have no doubt that he can win here. IF they had a full training camp and SL and a PG to start the season, things would've been better. Not perfect but better. Guys still came in rusty and a bit out of top shape, but the foundation would've been better. Rather than having to rely on an untested Rookie Combo guard to run his system.

Season 	        Age 	Lg 	Tm 	G 	W 	L 	W-L% 	
1998-99 	47 	NBA 	DEN 	50 	14 	36 	.280
2003-04 	52 	NBA 	PHO 	61 	21 	40 	.344
2004-05 	53 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	62 	20 	.756
2005-06 	54 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	54 	28 	.659
2006-07 	55 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	61 	21 	.744
2007-08 	56 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	55 	27 	.671
2008-09 	57 	NBA 	NYK 	82 	32 	50 	.390
2009-10 	58 	NBA 	NYK 	82 	29 	53 	.354
2010-11 	59 	NBA 	NYK 	82 	42 	40 	.512
2011-12 	60 	NBA 	NYK 	23 	8 	15 	.348
Career 		        NBA 		708 	378 	330 	.534

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:I think people misunderstand the stlye of run and gun.

Mike D'antoni goes by no such system. His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement, although he has no idea how to communicate this to his team, and to shoot their way out of everything.

A more accurate label of a run and gun team would be Miami, because they understand that defense is the initial point of emphasis to implement such a style. The better the defense and rebounding, the easier it is to get out on the break and attack.

D'antoni has no style. He never did.

I find this to be an incoherent bunch of statements.

"His way is to totally neglect defense and promote ball movement". The first part has nothing to do with the second part. Offense vs Defense. And it's obvious that the defense this year has improved a LOT.

If you don't think MDA doesn't have a style, you should ask Nash about that. Or open your eyes. You may not LIKE the system, but it's also one of the more unique ones in the league. Just the like the triangle offense.

And guess what... the triangle offense really has little to do with the type of defense that is being played on the other end of the court.

I think there is something to the 'it was Nash that made that system successful' statements that are casually made. When the Bobcats beat the Knicks Boris Diaw was interviewed after and raved about how great it was playing with Nash. He didn't rave about D'Antoni. His focus was on the brilliance of Nash.

both Nash and Diaw weren't nearly the players they were before getting into MDA's system.

You can talk chicken and egg all you want, but that is fact. MDA's system also benefited from having Nash run it.

I don't know why you would rely on a Biaw comment and call it conclusive evidence without knowing the context of question or answer.

Raving about Nash has nothing to do about NOT raving about something else. Perhaps beat writer asked "what are your thoughts on Nash?"

I agree about both Diaw and Nash putting up better numbers under D'Antoni. I also have thought saying D'Antoni can't win unless he has Nash at the point was a bit simplistic view. My point was that I think it has a bit more credibility after Diaw's comments. Diaw was being asked about his former coach because he had just had a huge game against him. Diaw was the one that brought up playing with Nash. If you want more data, D'Antoni is 136-244 without Nash as his point.

When MDA 1st got a shot in the NBA he was on a poor team like most new NBA coaches. Rarely do they come into good situations. The 50 games in Denver in his 1st Head coaching job isn't fair to judge him on. The next shot he got he took over for Frank Johnson with the team in free fall and despite his final record the team retained him due to how the young players performed. The next year with Nash and a full Training camp to put in his system he excelled.

Coaches win with talent. When he's had talent and consistency he's won. I have no doubt that he can win here. IF they had a full training camp and SL and a PG to start the season, things would've been better. Not perfect but better. Guys still came in rusty and a bit out of top shape, but the foundation would've been better. Rather than having to rely on an untested Rookie Combo guard to run his system.

Season 	        Age 	Lg 	Tm 	G 	W 	L 	W-L% 	
1998-99 	47 	NBA 	DEN 	50 	14 	36 	.280
2003-04 	52 	NBA 	PHO 	61 	21 	40 	.344
2004-05 	53 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	62 	20 	.756
2005-06 	54 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	54 	28 	.659
2006-07 	55 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	61 	21 	.744
2007-08 	56 	NBA 	PHO 	82 	55 	27 	.671
2008-09 	57 	NBA 	NYK 	82 	32 	50 	.390
2009-10 	58 	NBA 	NYK 	82 	29 	53 	.354
2010-11 	59 	NBA 	NYK 	82 	42 	40 	.512
2011-12 	60 	NBA 	NYK 	23 	8 	15 	.348
Career 		        NBA 		708 	378 	330 	.534

The Nuggets went from winning 28% of their games with D'Antoni to winning 43% of their games the following year with Issell. There was not significant player movement.

Like I said it was his 1st shot and in a strike shortened season like this one. Who knows how those players came into the season. If they were in shape or even cared. He had no rep and who knows what the players thought about him at the time. You really think that's a good example of what he can do as a coach in that situation. You can go ahead and count that as some indication of his coaching ability, but it B.S and you know it. Just like his 1st year in PHX, again with very little prep time to effect positive change.

Also it's clear from looking at how well Felton did, that it's not so much just having Nash but any PG that is talented enough to run the system as it needs to be run. Nash was the perfect match which is why MDA wanted him in the 1st place!!!

nixluva wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Nixluva, You highlight the one piece of data that may hint at your POV and rationalize away the rest.

I'm using LOGIC! His 1st head coaching job in Denver. Strike shortened year with a team that came off a losing season. 2nd job he takes over for Frank Johnson in PHX mid year. Don't forget they made the big trade with NY too. So he had a team with some kids and some strangers after the trade.

You're NOT! Short season my azz. Every team has to deal with that and the average record in that season was still 0.500. Statistically shortening the season has zero impact on winning percentages in the NBA! There are plenty of teams that make changes and most of them don't win at below 0.300! 0.300 is a sucky job!

nykshaknbake wrote:Nixluva, You highlight the one piece of data that may hint at your POV and rationalize away the rest.

My oh my....

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN wrote:

Oh snap. IDK if this has been posted before but this is the first time I have seen it. I just busted out laughing.

nykshaknbake wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Nixluva, You highlight the one piece of data that may hint at your POV and rationalize away the rest.

I'm using LOGIC! His 1st head coaching job in Denver. Strike shortened year with a team that came off a losing season. 2nd job he takes over for Frank Johnson in PHX mid year. Don't forget they made the big trade with NY too. So he had a team with some kids and some strangers after the trade.

You're NOT! Short season my azz. Every team has to deal with that and the average record in that season was still 0.500. Statistically shortening the season has zero impact on winning percentages in the NBA! There are plenty of teams that make changes and most of them don't win at below 0.300! 0.300 is a sucky job!

So you're saying that every 1st time NBA head coach starts with a team of strangers, in a lockout shortened season and gets to .500? How often do those things all coincide? Can you imagine MDA trying to get the players on Denver at that time to buy into his European style of ball with almost no preparation like this year.

They never even heard of D'Antoni at the time and he hadn't yet had any NBA success as a coach. Also they had just added McDyess, Van Exel, Billups and LaFrentz. They hadn't played together before and as I said it was a Lockout season, with the usual lack of prep time. Sounds reasonable that it could fall apart. Besides this is ancient history we're talking about. That D'Antoni and this more experienced D'Antoni are 2 different guys.