Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Baron in a week (or more, lets see how the plot develops).

Lin stays. Bibby is cut in favor of JR/Martin. Reverse order and the Knicks don't know what they are doing.

Agressively pursue a trade for a backup PG. Make Douglas and the low gang available. Consider Fields ONLY for the right player, especially if JR is signed.

Win.

You realize how desperate and sad all of this would sound to an objective outsider (someone who isn't a Knicks fan)?

You mean a non-Knick fan like Bill Simmons?!

My guess is even Bill Simmons would say that hoping for JR Smith to turn the season around is desperate.

Sad? Yes. Desperate? Definitely. But it is still a plan build on a reasonable premise. When you do t have starting caliber guards on your active roster it's both sad and desperate but you need to then plan on getting some by any means available.

I would much rather see us doing that than tanking for some stupid lottery.

risks of the lottery:
look who the houston rockets just didn't pick up options on: jordan hill, hasheem thabeet, jonny flynn and terrance williams (picks 8, 2, 6, 11 in 2009)

yeah tanking sounds like a much more sound option!

Risks of starphucking: see 2000 millenium for the Knicks.

Are you suggesting signing JR Smoth equals starphucking? If not your post is completely irrelevant in this context.

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:Baron in a week (or more, lets see how the plot develops).

Lin stays. Bibby is cut in favor of JR/Martin. Reverse order and the Knicks don't know what they are doing.

Agressively pursue a trade for a backup PG. Make Douglas and the low gang available. Consider Fields ONLY for the right player, especially if JR is signed.

Win.

You realize how desperate and sad all of this would sound to an objective outsider (someone who isn't a Knicks fan)?

You mean a non-Knick fan like Bill Simmons?!

My guess is even Bill Simmons would say that hoping for JR Smith to turn the season around is desperate.

Sad? Yes. Desperate? Definitely. But it is still a plan build on a reasonable premise. When you do t have starting caliber guards on your active roster it's both sad and desperate but you need to then plan on getting some by any means available.

I would much rather see us doing that than tanking for some stupid lottery.

risks of the lottery:
look who the houston rockets just didn't pick up options on: jordan hill, hasheem thabeet, jonny flynn and terrance williams (picks 8, 2, 6, 11 in 2009)

yeah tanking sounds like a much more sound option!

Risks of starphucking: see 2000 millenium for the Knicks.

Are you suggesting signing JR Smoth equals starphucking? If not your post is completely irrelevant in this context.

To answer your other question, JR Smith is a desperate attempt to make our starphucked roster work when we really need to admit starphucking doesn't work and start over.

MS wrote:I think the alarming part of this and every post is that it hinges on Baron Davis to make Carmelo, Chandler and Amare worth having on the team. Because with the lack of flexibility the Knicks have the next 3-4 years we have to rely on luck.

Why would Nash take the mid-level to come to new york when we could just as easily go to a team like Miami? Why would Raymond Felton take less money to play in New York. Jameer Nelson is already medicore. So where does that leave the Knicks. We have little to no tradeable assets that's why it's not to early to judge this move.

A starting point guard, two starting sf, a backup/starting center, power foward depth and draft pick is a lot to give up for a team getting back one player. Again our package of players is better than what the Clippers gave up for Chris Paul.

So what happens if Baron gets injured? It's likely we miss the playoffs. As unlikely as it is that Cleveland beats us out they have a starting center that is as good as chandler and point guard that is a leader and shooting above 50% as a rookie. We are essentially competing with the Bucks and the Cavs. That's downright embarrassing.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to say that Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony aren't worth having on the team.

No one is saying that Baron makes them worthwhile - they're saying he's a big piece of the puzzle. Kind of the way people here were always saying a defensive center was a piece of the puzzle - and it was.

But a defensive center isn't gonna run the point. There's no one cureall - it's about building a team. The Knicks have some good foundation built and even some walls on the house - now they need a front door. Baron can be a front door. No one is saying the front door is the most important part of the house, it'd be pretty useless without the foundation and walls. But it's a pretty damn important piece to be missing.

AND, where did I even say Baron was a cureall? I said they needed guard depth. Berman is saying the Knicks are chasing Ramon Sessions - I like that idea. We might be chasing JR Smith, I like that idea.

None of those guys is "the answer"... they're pieces that we are adding to a very good foundation.

I swear - some people want to act like a foundation of Carmelo, Tyson, Amar'e, Fields, Shumpert isn't a good start. IT IS. It's just missing some pieces.

crzymdups wrote:

MS wrote:I think the alarming part of this and every post is that it hinges on Baron Davis to make Carmelo, Chandler and Amare worth having on the team. Because with the lack of flexibility the Knicks have the next 3-4 years we have to rely on luck.

Why would Nash take the mid-level to come to new york when we could just as easily go to a team like Miami? Why would Raymond Felton take less money to play in New York. Jameer Nelson is already medicore. So where does that leave the Knicks. We have little to no tradeable assets that's why it's not to early to judge this move.

A starting point guard, two starting sf, a backup/starting center, power foward depth and draft pick is a lot to give up for a team getting back one player. Again our package of players is better than what the Clippers gave up for Chris Paul.

So what happens if Baron gets injured? It's likely we miss the playoffs. As unlikely as it is that Cleveland beats us out they have a starting center that is as good as chandler and point guard that is a leader and shooting above 50% as a rookie. We are essentially competing with the Bucks and the Cavs. That's downright embarrassing.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to say that Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony aren't worth having on the team.

No one is saying that Baron makes them worthwhile - they're saying he's a big piece of the puzzle. Kind of the way people here were always saying a defensive center was a piece of the puzzle - and it was.

But a defensive center isn't gonna run the point. There's no one cureall - it's about building a team. The Knicks have some good foundation built and even some walls on the house - now they need a front door. Baron can be a front door. No one is saying the front door is the most important part of the house, it'd be pretty useless without the foundation and walls. But it's a pretty damn important piece to be missing.

AND, where did I even say Baron was a cureall? I said they needed guard depth. Berman is saying the Knicks are chasing Ramon Sessions - I like that idea. We might be chasing JR Smith, I like that idea.

None of those guys is "the answer"... they're pieces that we are adding to a very good foundation.

I swear - some people want to act like a foundation of Carmelo, Tyson, Amar'e, Fields, Shumpert isn't a good start. IT IS. It's just missing some pieces.

Many, not all, but many of the guys that are very down on this team after the poor start are guys that hated the Melo trade to begin with. Then you also have your usual negative Nancy posters that get off on the team playing poorly every year. We can't expect this group to be reasonable given the circumstances. Nor to see any positives despite the poor start. The naysayers are in their full glory right now and nothing we say even if it makes sense will get thru.

Most of this teams problems are self inflicted. Teams aren't beating us as much as we're beating ourselves. This team needs to execute at a higher level than it has and it's fully capable of doing that. Until we can start to fill some of these holes later in February, the guys we have must step up and I believe they will. Guys like Fields, Shump, Lin, Walker are getting better. I'll be happy when Jorts gets back cuz he was having a good rookie season. At some point we'll see if Baron can really help us or not, but that won't be the end of this team options. They still have the trade deadline and maybe a China FA.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:I think the alarming part of this and every post is that it hinges on Baron Davis to make Carmelo, Chandler and Amare worth having on the team. Because with the lack of flexibility the Knicks have the next 3-4 years we have to rely on luck.

Well put

The point that's being missed is that you keep the frontcourt and add what's missing, which is the easier part of the team to fix. We're set at PF, C and SF.

Our disagreement lies there. I don't like this team PG through PF. If we were to get a great PG, we'd still suck at SG, have Meloburry at SF, and Shareef-Abdur-Amare at PF.

What are you basing this kind of comment on? When has STAT been Shareef or Melo been Steph with a good PG running the show? Every team has a weak spot. Right now SG is not a strength, but Fields is playing much better and it was believed he couldn't play well with Melo. We see now that this was a load of crap.

Shump is still learning, but his defense has remained a big plus for this team. I have good feelings about the development of Lin. He could help to push TD to SG and that would solve a lot of our problems. Jorts was doing well and I can't wait to get him back. All is not doom and gloom. There are bright spots.

Our two best players are redudant talented scorers with low basketball IQ's that don't play defense and aren't leaders. They talk a nice game, but rarely do they back it up with intensity on both sides of the court. Tyson Chandler is good center, but is he elite? No. But he is paid that way. His defense is good, but overated. The East Centers are virtually interchangable after Howard and Horford. (Noah, Varejo, MGee, Bogut, Monroe, Hawes,etc)

The Knicks one hope is Baron Davis. If he is injured we are a fringe playoff team with three near max contracts and limited depth. I don't see how that's a foundation. Would Steve Nash come here? Maybe. However the Knicks are by all accounts one of the most embarrassing franchises in the entire league. There history is highly overblown; 1973, that's a joke. So why is anyone in a hurry to come here? Gasol, Kobe, Bnyum or Lebron, Wade, Bosh? If I am Nash or Felton I choose those places over NYC in a heartbeat. Going all in with Chandler and hoping for a point guard is not a plan.

I would love to be optimistic, but I have watched this team play uninspired basketball. They beat one good team all year who played there third game in three nights. If you can tell me what the positives are I would like to hear them. We have been blown out by **** teams and don't take the game seriously.

crzymdups wrote:

MS wrote:I think the alarming part of this and every post is that it hinges on Baron Davis to make Carmelo, Chandler and Amare worth having on the team. Because with the lack of flexibility the Knicks have the next 3-4 years we have to rely on luck.

Why would Nash take the mid-level to come to new york when we could just as easily go to a team like Miami? Why would Raymond Felton take less money to play in New York. Jameer Nelson is already medicore. So where does that leave the Knicks. We have little to no tradeable assets that's why it's not to early to judge this move.

A starting point guard, two starting sf, a backup/starting center, power foward depth and draft pick is a lot to give up for a team getting back one player. Again our package of players is better than what the Clippers gave up for Chris Paul.

So what happens if Baron gets injured? It's likely we miss the playoffs. As unlikely as it is that Cleveland beats us out they have a starting center that is as good as chandler and point guard that is a leader and shooting above 50% as a rookie. We are essentially competing with the Bucks and the Cavs. That's downright embarrassing.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to say that Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony aren't worth having on the team.

No one is saying that Baron makes them worthwhile - they're saying he's a big piece of the puzzle. Kind of the way people here were always saying a defensive center was a piece of the puzzle - and it was.

But a defensive center isn't gonna run the point. There's no one cureall - it's about building a team. The Knicks have some good foundation built and even some walls on the house - now they need a front door. Baron can be a front door. No one is saying the front door is the most important part of the house, it'd be pretty useless without the foundation and walls. But it's a pretty damn important piece to be missing.

AND, where did I even say Baron was a cureall? I said they needed guard depth. Berman is saying the Knicks are chasing Ramon Sessions - I like that idea. We might be chasing JR Smith, I like that idea.

None of those guys is "the answer"... they're pieces that we are adding to a very good foundation.

I swear - some people want to act like a foundation of Carmelo, Tyson, Amar'e, Fields, Shumpert isn't a good start. IT IS. It's just missing some pieces.

The Knicks have some very good pieces. The really need a floor general. They arent nearly as bad as they have looked. I just hope this coaching is able to turn this around because FAs arent coming here to play for Mike Woodson

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

MS wrote:I think the alarming part of this and every post is that it hinges on Baron Davis to make Carmelo, Chandler and Amare worth having on the team. Because with the lack of flexibility the Knicks have the next 3-4 years we have to rely on luck.

Why would Nash take the mid-level to come to new york when we could just as easily go to a team like Miami? Why would Raymond Felton take less money to play in New York. Jameer Nelson is already medicore. So where does that leave the Knicks. We have little to no tradeable assets that's why it's not to early to judge this move.

A starting point guard, two starting sf, a backup/starting center, power foward depth and draft pick is a lot to give up for a team getting back one player. Again our package of players is better than what the Clippers gave up for Chris Paul.

So what happens if Baron gets injured? It's likely we miss the playoffs. As unlikely as it is that Cleveland beats us out they have a starting center that is as good as chandler and point guard that is a leader and shooting above 50% as a rookie. We are essentially competing with the Bucks and the Cavs. That's downright embarrassing.

I think it's pretty melodramatic to say that Tyson Chandler, Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony aren't worth having on the team.

No one is saying that Baron makes them worthwhile - they're saying he's a big piece of the puzzle. Kind of the way people here were always saying a defensive center was a piece of the puzzle - and it was.

But a defensive center isn't gonna run the point. There's no one cureall - it's about building a team. The Knicks have some good foundation built and even some walls on the house - now they need a front door. Baron can be a front door. No one is saying the front door is the most important part of the house, it'd be pretty useless without the foundation and walls. But it's a pretty damn important piece to be missing.

AND, where did I even say Baron was a cureall? I said they needed guard depth. Berman is saying the Knicks are chasing Ramon Sessions - I like that idea. We might be chasing JR Smith, I like that idea.

None of those guys is "the answer"... they're pieces that we are adding to a very good foundation.

I swear - some people want to act like a foundation of Carmelo, Tyson, Amar'e, Fields, Shumpert isn't a good start. IT IS. It's just missing some pieces.

yea.. this is why Knick fans arent smart. They are stupid. They dont understand why you cant add a couple players and be the Celtics 4 years ago.