nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:we have(this isn't even debatable) the worst PG in the league, and it's the coaches fault.

A pg avging less the 4 ast, is the coaches fault..

Go take a look at the standings, the top 5 teams in each conference have a bonifide pg or playmaker in there backcourt..we have niether. We have a top 5 scorer (a sf) facilitating our offense, a guy who has been ask to do something he has never done in his life..

No that's inst the coaches fault...Here is what is the coaches fault...We do not have one player in the back court that makes good decision...Not one..Not TD, Shump, Walker,or Fields...Yet he insist on running SSOL...We are still taking an insane amount of 3 pointers with guys who can't shoot...Our best players are in the front court...They can hit free throws and can board...Not once since MDA was given his job in NY have you ever heard him talk about rebounding and free throws, Riley use to say that wins Championships...So, we take an insane amount of threes,thus long rebounds, so we can't take advantage of our big front line...We don't get to the line...We have scrubs chucking from downtown and that's the game plan...U decide...

The big flaw in your argument is that we aren't runnin SSOL. Do you even remember what SSOL looks like? This coach has adapted to the roster and when they actually move the ball and execute they score. The problem is you can't expect these guys to keep that up on their own. When you have a PG they are the one that settles a team down and gets them back into the offense. A PG will create more easy looks so that everything isn't so hard. You can't get by with almost zero players that can smartly handle the ball and make good decisions. Every coach needs a coach on the court.

They were absolutely trying to run SSOL the last two games without Melo...In the process they threw up 69 threes in two games...

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:we have(this isn't even debatable) the worst PG in the league, and it's the coaches fault.

A pg avging less the 4 ast, is the coaches fault..

Go take a look at the standings, the top 5 teams in each conference have a bonifide pg or playmaker in there backcourt..we have niether. We have a top 5 scorer (a sf) facilitating our offense, a guy who has been ask to do something he has never done in his life..

No that's inst the coaches fault...Here is what is the coaches fault...We do not have one player in the back court that makes good decision...Not one..Not TD, Shump, Walker,or Fields...Yet he insist on running SSOL...We are still taking an insane amount of 3 pointers with guys who can't shoot...Our best players are in the front court...They can hit free throws and can board...Not once since MDA was given his job in NY have you ever heard him talk about rebounding and free throws, Riley use to say that wins Championships...So, we take an insane amount of threes,thus long rebounds, so we can't take advantage of our big front line...We don't get to the line...We have scrubs chucking from downtown and that's the game plan...U decide...

The big flaw in your argument is that we aren't runnin SSOL. Do you even remember what SSOL looks like? This coach has adapted to the roster and when they actually move the ball and execute they score. The problem is you can't expect these guys to keep that up on their own. When you have a PG they are the one that settles a team down and gets them back into the offense. A PG will create more easy looks so that everything isn't so hard. You can't get by with almost zero players that can smartly handle the ball and make good decisions. Every coach needs a coach on the court.

They were absolutely trying to run SSOL the last two games without Melo...In the process they threw up 69 threes in two games...

Knicks don't really push ball constantly or run any type of consistent PnR, those are the hallmarks of SSOL. 69 threes is an example of what happens when you DON'T run SSOL to any type of success.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:we have(this isn't even debatable) the worst PG in the league, and it's the coaches fault.

A pg avging less the 4 ast, is the coaches fault..

Go take a look at the standings, the top 5 teams in each conference have a bonifide pg or playmaker in there backcourt..we have niether. We have a top 5 scorer (a sf) facilitating our offense, a guy who has been ask to do something he has never done in his life..

No that's inst the coaches fault...Here is what is the coaches fault...We do not have one player in the back court that makes good decision...Not one..Not TD, Shump, Walker,or Fields...Yet he insist on running SSOL...We are still taking an insane amount of 3 pointers with guys who can't shoot...Our best players are in the front court...They can hit free throws and can board...Not once since MDA was given his job in NY have you ever heard him talk about rebounding and free throws, Riley use to say that wins Championships...So, we take an insane amount of threes,thus long rebounds, so we can't take advantage of our big front line...We don't get to the line...We have scrubs chucking from downtown and that's the game plan...U decide...

The big flaw in your argument is that we aren't runnin SSOL. Do you even remember what SSOL looks like? This coach has adapted to the roster and when they actually move the ball and execute they score. The problem is you can't expect these guys to keep that up on their own. When you have a PG they are the one that settles a team down and gets them back into the offense. A PG will create more easy looks so that everything isn't so hard. You can't get by with almost zero players that can smartly handle the ball and make good decisions. Every coach needs a coach on the court.

They were absolutely trying to run SSOL the last two games without Melo...In the process they threw up 69 threes in two games...

Knicks don't really push ball constantly or run any type of consistent PnR, those are the hallmarks of SSOL. 69 threes is an example of what happens when you DON'T run SSOL to any type of success.

They were trying to push the ball with TD...Absolutely...At the end of the game MDA was ask why he put Lin in...He said in a frustrating tone..I just wanted to get someone in there to run the pick and roll...

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:That's not even my issue with MDA...I am convince when BD comes on line this team will be markedly different...But it will only mask the job MDA is doing..You can't have a frontline like we have and not play to their strength...We can hit free throws and rebound, the formula to win...We have probably the best post up iso player in the league...Why are we not going to our strength???

The Knicks are shooting a ridiculously low % when they run ISO ball. Like 16%. The opposite should happen.

huh????...Melo???..Before he got hurt????...We shot 19% from the three last night...Melo is the only guy who runs iso...

nixluva wrote:It seems that the biggest problem MDA has in NY is the misconception that his offense is about taking 3's and that's it. You don't end up with having the most efficient offense in the league if all you do is run and gun. There's never been a more efficient uptempo offense than SSOL and even tho i've posted the statistics many times it still goes over people's heads.

The last 8 years MDA's teams have been #1, #2, #1, #2, #17, #17 and #5 in Offensive Efficiency. So he was the BEST or 2nd Best in terms of offense and then he comes to NY and has to run his offense with Duhon and a cast of clowns. Last year he finally gets a decent PG, not some All Star as people keep swearing he needs, but Raymond Felton, who's team didn't fight to keep him. All of a sudden the team is #5 in the league in Offensive Efficiency. It's crystal clear that he's not a bad coach or lost. You just can't expect him to be someone he's not and you must make sure to give him at least a DECENT PG.

That also means STAT must have a decent PnR PG too. We killed him as much as we did MDA. If you have STAT for $100 mil, you must make sure to have a PnR PG. Is that STAT's fault or MDA's fault? These are known facts and at this late stage they're not gonna change.

RIGHT, and just to piggy back on your comment..Why should a coach change his whole philosophy..Thats like saying melo sucks as a pg.

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:It seems that the biggest problem MDA has in NY is the misconception that his offense is about taking 3's and that's it. You don't end up with having the most efficient offense in the league if all you do is run and gun. There's never been a more efficient uptempo offense than SSOL and even tho i've posted the statistics many times it still goes over people's heads.

The last 8 years MDA's teams have been #1, #2, #1, #2, #17, #17 and #5 in Offensive Efficiency. So he was the BEST or 2nd Best in terms of offense and then he comes to NY and has to run his offense with Duhon and a cast of clowns. Last year he finally gets a decent PG, not some All Star as people keep swearing he needs, but Raymond Felton, who's team didn't fight to keep him. All of a sudden the team is #5 in the league in Offensive Efficiency. It's crystal clear that he's not a bad coach or lost. You just can't expect him to be someone he's not and you must make sure to give him at least a DECENT PG.

That also means STAT must have a decent PnR PG too. We killed him as much as we did MDA. If you have STAT for $100 mil, you must make sure to have a PnR PG. Is that STAT's fault or MDA's fault? These are known facts and at this late stage they're not gonna change.

RIGHT, and just to piggy back on your comment..Why should a coach change his whole philosophy..Thats like saying melo sucks as a pg.

Riley changed his philosophy...Listen he shouldn't have to change, he can get a new job...By the way, there changes in every profession that we all must adjust to or be gone...Thats a fact...

Riley came into a situation where players were already in place. The Knicks rebuilt the team, took away players that fit and didn't give MDA the PG he needs. He actually tried to Adjust to what he had. SO let's take a look at who MDA has.

STAT - PnR, Elbow midrange jumper, face up PF
Tyson - PnR, Alleyoop and put backs
Melo - ISO, catch and shoot
Shump - Scorer, not really a pure shooter

Fields, Walker, Novak, TD, Bibby - Spot up shooters, occasional cuts to the basket, not much else.

With the players he has, running a motion and ball movement set is about all you can do. His PF and C need to be setup via PnR. Melo is an ISO guy, but he can pass and so MDA gave him the platform to do that. Thing is you don't want a steady diet of that cuz it takes everyone else out of the game with less ball movement. Minus a PG you really don't have a single style that works for everyone. Most of the team needs to be setup to score aside from Melo, so that's why things look so bad.

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:That's not even my issue with MDA...I am convince when BD comes on line this team will be markedly different...But it will only mask the job MDA is doing..You can't have a frontline like we have and not play to their strength...We can hit free throws and rebound, the formula to win...We have probably the best post up iso player in the league...Why are we not going to our strength???

The Knicks are shooting a ridiculously low % when they run ISO ball. Like 16%. The opposite should happen.

huh????...Melo???..Before he got hurt????...We shot 19% from the three last night...Melo is the only guy who runs iso...

I don't even understand your response. And why would you compare anything long trend to 1 night's worth of stats?

When Melo runs PnR, we get something like 1.65 points per possession. When in iso mode, it's like 0.6

Do the math.

I put zero credence in those stats because it doesnt show game situation..When and where he got the ball in the shot clock, etc...I'm sure you do remember a stretch which has been discussed here where Melo will be given the ball with the shot clock running out on multiple occasions..

Also ..Was trying to get a few thoughts in from my iPhone on a supermarket line..Thus the incoherent garble..