MS wrote:We got swept in the playoffs; how do things get worse? And he didn't put the team on his back. If the guy just played like **** instead of terrible we actually win game 1. He was medicore in the series outside of game 2.

If you're a great player you adjust to your role. Lebron took a team with virtually nobody to 50 wins every year in Cleveland, Wade took his team to the playoffs with no one, Dwight Howard wins 50 games every year, if you're demanding max dollars and you call yourself elite you make your team a playoff team by yourself. You don't need to win in the playoffs, but with the 2nd easiest schedule in the league and embarrassing losses to lottery teams it falls on you.

If you're injured you don't shoot 30 times

We hobbled into the plaoffs and broke down fast. You could see it coming.

How do things get worse?

You lose your team and they tune you out. You don't make the playoffs at all.

Rare is it a team does well without chemistry and continuity.

Its not on MDA, Melo or Amare.

Its just what it is.

But I've always thought that he and Melo were on different pages. D'Antoni clearly didn't want to include Gallo in the Melo trade... you have to wonder if he wanted it at all. The article above makes it seem like he didn't.

The Melo / D'Antoni rift is gonna get bigger, I think, unless things get better. Probably one reason George Karl is smiling so much these days. D'Antoni can't win a fight against the smiling face of the Knicks, for better or worse.

Cut him loose already.

Moonangie wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm hoping Phil stays retired. I know i'm in the minority, but he just rubs me the wrong way. People want to give Nash all the credit for D'Antoni's success, but when it comes to Jax, he's great and no one seems to notice he's had ALL TIME GREATS when won his titles. He didn't just have some good players like the Mavs or Pistons, this dude had Literally the greatest player of all time and the next guy in line for that and the most dominant Center in our generation, plus boatloads of other really good players. His teams were fully loaded. He did a great job handling those teams and talents, which he deserves all the credit for, but Jordan was an assassin and then he gets Kobe who is also an assassin, plus throw in Pippen and Shaq and a little Pau. No one else in the modern era has had that level of talent except for Riley and KC Jones.

I don't want to win a title with this guy so he can claim all the credit. I'd prefer to win without him. It would be much sweeter for me. I don't think he'd really take the job without an assassin leader on the team to insure that he didn't have to get up off the bench much like he's used to. People complain about MDA not calling timeouts must never have seen Phil coach. Dude didn't invent the Triangle and I think he takes so much credit for what his players and staff did so he could just manage personalities. That's a luxury most coaches don't have cuz they don't have the best players in the league. Is he better than Spoelstra? Hell yes!!! I just don't think he's the only guy that could win with the level of talent he had. Sloan, LB, Adelman, Karl could all have won multiple titles with his teams.

I usually agree with you Nix, but this time I think you're off: Jax may have had elite talent on his championship teams, but it's the way he blends those egos with his role players that enabled those teams to be dynasties. His master crafting played a HUGE part in making those teams successful. Do I think the talent on the 3 Amigos Heat team is top tier? Of course, but I doubt Spoelstra achieves with them what Jax has done twice on two separate teams.

I'd take him back on the Knicks in a nanosecond, without hesitation. So what if he didn't invent the triangle? He does what great managers do: He surrounds himself with talented people (players and coaches) and gets them achieving at the highest possible level. And THAT is the hallmark of great leadership, something the Knicks have lacked since that goat Riley left us in the lurch.

Agree. Phil Jax is great simply because he has shown he can manage ego problems between stars. Something Sloan couldn't do, LB lost my respect when he started being a media whore, Karl couldn't really get Melo to buy in and play defense. MDA also doesn't seem to be abl;e to make these guys mesh well at least not yet. Phil Jax is about the one guy who may be able to get them to play as a team. Cant really argue with the rings, but I would happy to see someone like Sloan coach here as well.

Spoelstra is the perfect example of a lower level coach not really adding anything to get his coach over the top. That happens too. Doc was getting booed out of Boston before they added KG and Allen. IMO coaches get too much credit and too much blame. MOST of what happens is about the talent a coach has if we're dealing with equally talented coaches. It's 95% players and that extra %5 influence the coach has is critical in helping get an extra 10 wins and more importantly in the playoffs. It's about the players 1st and foremost. Give this coach what he needs to win and you won't have to worry about begging Phil to coach the team. Jax isn't the only coach that can win a title. Rick Carlisle did is job and got his talented and deep team over the top. This Knicks team has holes and isn't deep, Jax doesn't fix that. Fix those issue 1st and then we'll see what MDA can do or not. Dude had half a season with a good PG and then they send him away!!! That's not fair to bash the guy under those circumstances.

nixluva wrote:Interesting article. It's good to hear that the players are still behind the coach and that they recognize the fault lies mostly with them. While it's true that you can't just give MDA any old roster and think he's gonna succeed, it's also true that they brought him in and to this day haven't given him the one thing they know he needs to be successful! To handcuff the guy after sending away players that fit what he was doing seems extremely unfair. Even down to not resigning Shawne, this has been a rough situation for D'Antoni. They left him with literally the worst passing PG from the team a year ago. At the least he deserves to play out the year and see what he can do.

Heck he even went so far as to give Dolan's guy Melo every opportunity to shine this year. He had the ball in his hands and a complete green light. They created plays for Melo and on top of that gave him an excellent pick man in Tyson. No player could ask for more in terms of freedom to do his thing. There's no way anyone could blame the coach for Melo's failure so far. It's literally Melo's team to lead.

I think we need to see if this group can get out of this slump and play some great BB this year. If not then you can make needed changes in the off season when it's fresh and any new coach can have a clean start. However, you've gotta give MDA a full shot and hopefully with a real PG.

Respectively
when are the MDA supporters gonna tell it like it is ? that Mr D'Antoni does have some say-so & inputs onto this Knick
team and its roster makeup over the 5billion yrs he been knick roach-coach eh ?

The fact of the matter is D'Antoni is much to blame for PGs lacking in his inputs to drafts and other pieces brought in here
over the yrs and position players.

Agree knicks need a real PG. However Mike D gets no pass since his Chris Duhon 'starter' PG days when it was D'Antoni
whom told fans Duhon was a starter good enough to run his club then.

Same old same old
excuses will prevail and Mike D'Antoni is benefits from all the TRADEs and this & that as if he as coach isn't
responsible for anything BAD ? with Knicks lack of fortunes.

This sounds like we need to send D'Antoni a PG (Magic Johnson), SG (M.Jordan), PF (T.Duncan), C (Shaq) and SF Kobe Bryant
and only then will things be perfect for D'Antoni not to get blamed for anything here.
If this was his roster then we'd all here as Forum-folks can be coach succeeded too!

NYKBocker wrote:I like MDA. I don't like blaming coaches, but I would not be upset if he was fired. Sticking with TD and Bibby running the point is just plain stupid.

Who else is capable? You think you know for sure that Lin is ready? You think MDA really wanted to have TD and Bibby as his only real PG's on the team? I'm pretty sure they've been working with Lin, but lets give the kid some time to get the hang of this offense before we just throw him in there.

NYKBocker wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I like MDA. I don't like blaming coaches, but I would not be upset if he was fired. Sticking with TD and Bibby running the point is just plain stupid.

Who else is capable? You think you know for sure that Lin is ready? You think MDA really wanted to have TD and Bibby as his only real PG's on the team? I'm pretty sure they've been working with Lin, but lets give the kid some time to get the hang of this offense before we just throw him in there.

How long before you say **** this and let me give this other kid a shot? The goal is to win. TD and Bibby is not doing that for us. Wouldn't it be foolish not to try somebody else in your team? I am also not looking to throw him out there for ****s-and-giggles. Give him Bibby's minutes. 5-10 minutes in a game should benefit both the Knicks and Lin.

Yes the goal is to WIN. The goal is NOT to experiment by throwing in the flavor of the day scrub because the fans want blood. Continuity is of paramount importance when the chips are down. You guys start with throwing around names of scrubs like Lin, then there's a handful of posts saying he may do this better and that better and suddenly it is the coach's fault because Lib is not getting PT. there is no basis for this rationale it's built on conjecture in the absence of data.9

nixluva wrote:I'm hoping Phil stays retired. I know i'm in the minority, but he just rubs me the wrong way. People want to give Nash all the credit for D'Antoni's success, but when it comes to Jax, he's great and no one seems to notice he's had ALL TIME GREATS when won his titles. He didn't just have some good players like the Mavs or Pistons, this dude had Literally the greatest player of all time and the next guy in line for that and the most dominant Center in our generation, plus boatloads of other really good players. His teams were fully loaded. He did a great job handling those teams and talents, which he deserves all the credit for, but Jordan was an assassin and then he gets Kobe who is also an assassin, plus throw in Pippen and Shaq and a little Pau. No one else in the modern era has had that level of talent except for Riley and KC Jones.

I don't want to win a title with this guy so he can claim all the credit. I'd prefer to win without him. It would be much sweeter for me. I don't think he'd really take the job without an assassin leader on the team to insure that he didn't have to get up off the bench much like he's used to. People complain about MDA not calling timeouts must never have seen Phil coach. Dude didn't invent the Triangle and I think he takes so much credit for what his players and staff did so he could just manage personalities. That's a luxury most coaches don't have cuz they don't have the best players in the league. Is he better than Spoelstra? Hell yes!!! I just don't think he's the only guy that could win with the level of talent he had. Sloan, LB, Adelman, Karl could all have won multiple titles with his teams.

At the end of the day NIX, you would be on broadway teary eyed like the rest of us when that knicks float reaches city hall..No matter how it happen, or the coach that made it happen..

Right now I agree that more of the blame should fall on Melo, Stoudemire and Douglas, but a no-nonesense coach like Phil could impose himself in the players' psyche and make them play batter.

A guy like Doc Rivers would help too. Because while we need a PG desperately, the truth is there seems to be something rotten in this group of players. Mentally, they aren't close to being a team. That is why they look worse than the end of last season.

loweyecue wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:Insanity is also trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Do you suggest we plow through with continuity when Davis comes back? Just give the kid a try out. What we have isn't working out.

loweyecue wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

nixluva wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I like MDA. I don't like blaming coaches, but I would not be upset if he was fired. Sticking with TD and Bibby running the point is just plain stupid.

Who else is capable? You think you know for sure that Lin is ready? You think MDA really wanted to have TD and Bibby as his only real PG's on the team? I'm pretty sure they've been working with Lin, but lets give the kid some time to get the hang of this offense before we just throw him in there.

How long before you say **** this and let me give this other kid a shot? The goal is to win. TD and Bibby is not doing that for us. Wouldn't it be foolish not to try somebody else in your team? I am also not looking to throw him out there for ****s-and-giggles. Give him Bibby's minutes. 5-10 minutes in a game should benefit both the Knicks and Lin.

Yes the goal is to WIN. The goal is NOT to experiment by throwing in the flavor of the day scrub because the fans want blood. Continuity is of paramount importance when the chips are down. You guys start with throwing around names of scrubs like Lin, then there's a handful of posts saying he may do this better and that better and suddenly it is the coach's fault because Lib is not getting PT. there is no basis for this rationale it's built on conjecture in the absence of data.9

Continuity is the only way you can make incremental improvement. We suck because our team is disbalanced with gaping holes. Changing to a different band aid isn't going to heal a ruptured artery. Change for the sake of changing is ill advised and meaningless. This type of thing is usually suggested by people who either don't have a long term plan or dont have the discipline needed to execute one.

+200

The goal at the world's most renovated arena is to sell tickets.

The Dolan "plan" was to have enough "star power" to attract the deep-pocketed "stars" and non-basketball fans who pony up for the prime seats by 2011. Here we are.

Consider the arena renovation being completed, just in time to be squeezed out of the playoffs by the 76ers.