But Lin is currently our fastest/quickest PG, with the best IQ, and being the true PG at 6'3.

Oh..do please elaborate!

RonRon wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I know you guys hate this, but I don't care.......I coached for a long time adn never once put a player in to "try things out". People keep assumign that he is killing TD and Bibby in practice. Not once have we considered the possibility that he is getting killed in practice.

I've seen Lin play every game but Charlotte(still have it taped and will watch). Maybe the Charlotte game is an indication he's getting better and ready to play soon. Mabye it's just a product of a 30 point blow it. Tough to tell. Considering he hasn't played more then 6 minutes in a game, how are all of you guys making these definitive assessments that he is better than Bibby or TD? What are you seeing? The saem thing we saw in Anthony Randolph youtube videos? Give it time, if he's good he will play.

AR was taking bad shots, while he had the athleticism, foot speed, length, and size while lacking the IQ that could have taken some of JJ's minutes.

But Lin is currently our fastest/quickest PG, with the best IQ, and being the true PG at 6'3.

Lin has shown he is the best option, even over Iman. But Iman's defense is keeping him in the game which I understand but not over TD and especially Bibby.

#1 Where has he shown he is the best option? In the 6 minutes of garbage time he's played? Or was it the 10 minutes per night of 1.5 assist, 39% FG 20% 3's that he showed in Golden State. By no means am I sayign he stinks. Btu I'm saying what are you seeing to make all of these determinations? ARe there games in an alternate universe that some of you guys are watching that I don't get on Directv.

#2 If he's as good as everyone makes it out to be why wouldn't D'Antoni play him? If he is that much better than those two what's the incentive to sit?

#3 If he is so much better than these two why has he not clearly seperated himself? If he's so good how in the world could he let Mike Bibby even be an option?

ramtour420 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Reality is that in NY whenver our rotation players fail we make the assumption that the bench guy is clearly better and the only reason that they aren't playing is because the coach is dumb, hates the guy, is loyal, doesn't know how to recognize talent, resistant to change, blind, making love to the starter.

This is the identical argument that we had 2 years ago between TD and Duhon. It is no different. Some of it is the exact same people using the exact same reasoning. D'Antoni doesn't like young guys. TD is quicker and more athletic then Duhon. Blah, blah, blah. It's the same shallow analysis. NOw that we have seen TD's warts now we have just turned it around on him.

The only PG on this roster that has a chance to turn us around is Baron. Evne that is no guarantee. With Lin we have to hope he continues to improve and hopefully eventually starts EARNING minutes over these other two guys at the one. In the meantime he has shown nothing other than a couple passes here or there. Lot more to the game than that. In r minutes per in 6 games it is impossible to show what type of PG you are and how great you are. Only the coaching staff knows where he is. We know nothing but our fantasies.

" a couple passes here and there" in extremely limited minutes, passing to our 3rd stringers is more than we have seen from TD starting, playing a lot of minutes and passing to our starters. That's all. Yes, we don't watch the practices but we watch games.

Last year he did well, but this year, TC is down low vs Amare playing center and being able to camp outside for a lanes.
We also had Billups and Shawne Williams to help spread the floor, while taking the pressure away from him.
He has a shot to beat his man of the dribble, 1v1 with his man, but he has no shot but if there is help defense behind them.

Billups was our clear 2nd/3rd option, while we don't have one this year, or a player of his leadership to take the pressure off Melo and our Guards.
We played Amare at the 5 a lot last year, with Shawne Williams, Melo, TD, Billups.

Amare
Shawne
Melo
TD
Billups

that is 4 3 point shooters to spread the floor, with Amare being a solid 17foot shooter over the center, while Melo had room to post up.

This year Melo has little room to post up and has to help the PG, without the shooters, and extra big men to take the space.
So how can we get good shots? We already tried moving the ball, usually with no effect.

So no post up players, no players able to penetrate, and bad 3point shooting this year is a disaster.

It has been obvious that our guards are not able to penetrate and TC said yesterday, he was able to score was off the penetration from the guards.
This is where Lin's skill exceeds at the very least, Bibby. But Dantoni still does not play him, rather play TD, which also results in ball movement that goes NOWHERE.

The penetration allows good shots and will break the defense down. Earns a step for our team and will allow us to be in rhythm and confidence.
25% of the season isn't enough? When it will be 50% the season, Dantoni will say "I have to put the best lineup in order to hopefully get a winning streak going."

Good 3 point shots, go from the post back out, or with dribble/penetration. TC and Amare do not post up, so how else can we get good shots?

ramtour420 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:Reality is that in NY whenver our rotation players fail we make the assumption that the bench guy is clearly better and the only reason that they aren't playing is because the coach is dumb, hates the guy, is loyal, doesn't know how to recognize talent, resistant to change, blind, making love to the starter.

This is the identical argument that we had 2 years ago between TD and Duhon. It is no different. Some of it is the exact same people using the exact same reasoning. D'Antoni doesn't like young guys. TD is quicker and more athletic then Duhon. Blah, blah, blah. It's the same shallow analysis. NOw that we have seen TD's warts now we have just turned it around on him.

The only PG on this roster that has a chance to turn us around is Baron. Evne that is no guarantee. With Lin we have to hope he continues to improve and hopefully eventually starts EARNING minutes over these other two guys at the one. In the meantime he has shown nothing other than a couple passes here or there. Lot more to the game than that. In r minutes per in 6 games it is impossible to show what type of PG you are and how great you are. Only the coaching staff knows where he is. We know nothing but our fantasies.

" a couple passes here and there" in extremely limited minutes, passing to our 3rd stringers is more than we have seen from TD starting, playing a lot of minutes and passing to our starters. That's all. Yes, we don't watch the practices but we watch games.

I will say it again, two years ago we were saying the same things about Douglas and duhon. It's the same frigginnargument. Now we've seen Douglas warts we are turning on him. As for Lin when he is ady he will play. After Fields,Mozgov, shumpert,Harrelson this staff has shown that they are more than willing to play the young guys.whether its Friday, a month from now or never I'm confident he will play when he's ready. I have no other evidence to the contrary other than made up conspiracy theories

Nalod wrote:TD used to hit his shots.

Whats changed?

He had surgery and might not be right.

I think this is a big issue - I think he's hurt again, or not fully recovered.

He's a tough kid, like Melo, I guess- and both probably should site until they're better and able to contribute...

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:TD used to hit his shots.

Whats changed?

He had surgery and might not be right.

I think this is a big issue - I think he's hurt again, or not fully recovered.

He's a tough kid, like Melo, I guess- and both probably should site until they're better and able to contribute...

I think like Melo and Amare, they are missing the room 4 shooters spaced out.
Amare playing at Center also gives him plenty of room to operate.
Without Billups, Amare + Melo are both missing a player that is the 2nd/3rd option in moments, "Mr. Big Shot" provided.
He might not be able to penetrate with speed and quickness but his shot is way behind the 3point line and he has good leadership, taking pressure of everybody.
TD might be able to take his man, with good spacing, off the dribble, but once there is help DEF, hes is very limited with his skills/moves.
Shawnee Williams is very much missed starting with his consistent % 3 point shot.
Even though he isn't as talented and a all round players like Wilson Chandler or Shawn Marion, he is a decent defender with his length and effort.
Melo's confidence is at a career low right now mixed with injuries.
He is missing the room to operate while not able to get post position, without 4 shooters *him being the 4th* out there.
That little post presence that Shawnee Williams and Melo was able to operate on, is now gone.
Mixed with the good shooting to space the floor, TC at Center vs Amare, and Amare at PF vs Shawne or Melo, its a big difference.

Amare
Shawnee Williams
Melo
TD
Billups

vs

TC
Amare
Melo
Fields
Iman

Nalod wrote:TD used to hit his shots.

Whats changed?

He had surgery and might not be right.

I think the problem is that he couldn't play bball at all over the whole of the offseason (I think he only got clearance to play just before training camp). So he's bound to be rusty as hell. on top of that he gained a lot of muscle on his arms and shoulders to prevent re-injuring his shoulder when he battles through picks. So that screwed up his shooting. Then on top of that, he started so poorly and the fans turned against him so quickly, that his confidence is absolutely shot. Watch a clip of TD from last year when he was playinmg well- it's amazing how much worse he is this year- he's like a completely different player, especially attitude wise- he has no confidence, he's slower, his decision making is even worse- he stinks in every way.

At this point he's a shooting guard who can't shoot, in a point guards body.

martin wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:this team need a coach that excels in the half court offense. This is not a run and gun team and Mike is not a half court coach.

I want to say that I've read some stats that while in PHO the offense was nearly as good in half court set as it was in run and gun.

2011-12 with TD, Shump, Bibby    - #17 in scoring, #24 in Offensive Efficiency
2010-11 with Felton, TD, CB      - #2  in scoring, #5  in Off. Eff.
2009-10 with Duhon, TD, Hughes   - #10 in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2008-09 with Duhon, Nate, Hughes - #4  in scoring, #17 in Off. Eff.
2007-08 with Nash                - #3  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2006-07 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.
2005-06 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #2  in Off. Eff.
2004-05 with Nash                - #1  in scoring, #1  in Off. Eff.

It's so obvious statistically what the problem is with Mike's tenure here. Soon as you give him a decent PG all of a sudden things work right. This is like a repeat of the Ewing era. We just never got that 2nd star he needed to help him get over the hump. Here we just haven't been able to give him a permanent solution at PG.

Bippity10 wrote:We simply don't support our coaches in NY. Our front office competes against them, plays politics and then scapegoats them after they put together an awful roster. part of the reason we haven't won a title in decades. The reason we got out of teh dumps under Walsh was because Walsh hired a coach he believed in and then proceeded to find players that fit his style of play. We have now done the opposite. How can we repeat this same mistake over and over again and never put two and two together that this is why we never win.

i think if MDA would have just played TD in the first year before Walsh demanded that the coach play him, all would have worked out OK.