markvmc wrote:If someone new at the helm is what it takes for the Knicks to realize Melo/Stat doesn't work, I'm all in favor of it.

+ 1.

Than we can get serious about that Amare for Deron.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:Time has become the biggest factor in the way Mike D'antoni should be judged as a professional.

Game by game, Losing streak to losing streak, and season by season, it has become evident the only reason he was highly regarded as an offensive genius was because of his 2 time MVP, Steve Nash. It has become clearly obvious Mike D'antoni's impact on that offense and that team's success was extremely minimal.

The SSOL system, the pace, the demand of players having an ability to shoot, the tempo, etc.

Move on Mike. We've all come to realize you are a phony. You can't fool New York anymore.

When the grass is cut, the snakes will show.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

airchibundo507 wrote:no more excuses. no waiting for baron davis.

we have a degenerate offense with no movement. we haven't had a PG this season yet I have seen no development in this offense in 15 GAMES. D'Antoni is content with iso. Melo is content with chucking. And our shooters (except Harrelson) are content with bricking their three's.

ship this guy out. no more wasting damn time.

if your shooters can't make a basket and Melo decides to do ISO, what do you suggest to change it to?

I think management may be moving on. I think D'Antoni is given the year but unlike Walsh, Grunwald is building the team the way he thinks it will be successful and not to make D'Antoni successful. That sucks if you are a system coach and your gm is putting you in a position where your system can't be effective.
Trading for Tyson and leaving only Toney, Iman and Bibby at the point was a definite disregard for the coach's system. If D'Antoni is Grunwald's guy I think he does everything he can to position himself to get Paul next year. He went for a center which is a major piece for any competing team but in the process he put his coach in a position where he couldn't do what he is successful at doing.

The franchise had moved on from MDA when the Melo trade happened. Melo is the exact opposite of an MDA player. Tyson is much closer to being a fit for MDA. Fire him they will, but I am not holding my breath on this mess improving anytime soon.

CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.

5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

for me, here's why the 36% doesn't mean much: MDA's system is about PnR and the PG making decisions. You don't have that decision maker, you don't have the offense. So 36% almost makes sense.

If Phil Jackson was running his triangle without Kobe or Jordan, his win % goes down. Fairly simple.

holfresh wrote:Hey..I never liked the MDA hiring...But I want him to finish the year...This way we know whether or not he can coach..If he can, gravy for us...But after watching the game tonight, I asked myself, which team looked coached...Mil call a time out while they were up big to run another play on us that worked...Where is our coach in all this???..

I mean regardless of what we all think of Melo and STAT...We know these guys had game within the last year..I'm just saying...WTF!!!....

OF course I fire D'Antoni for Skiles or Thibodeau or someone like that without thinking twice but how much impact would these guys have when you have a guy like Amare playing the way he is and Carmelo holding the ball for 20 seconds? I don't know of many coaches that can succeed with a team as currently constructed. I don't think this team has the necessary pieces to compete for the 2nd round of the playoffs, let alone a championship.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.

5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

for me, here's why the 36% doesn't mean much: MDA's system is about PnR and the PG making decisions. You don't have that decision maker, you don't have the offense. So 36% almost makes sense.

If Phil Jackson was running his triangle without Kobe or Jordan, his win % goes down. Fairly simple.

I agree to some extent but 36% over 5 seasons is well below .500 for a significant period of time. Five years in the NBA us a long time. I don't think Phil Jackson would lose at that rate for 5 years no matter what his roster was. I also get frustrated when Jackson is thrown into any D'Antoni argument. I never hear Riley, or Popovich being brought up. I think it is obvious that D'Antoni needs a good if not great point guard to run his offense. I think management chose to build the team the way they thought it would be most successful long term and not in a way that would make D'Antoni more successful.

look a little further: PHO missed Amare for 2 whole years. And how many PHO games did Nash miss? And who was behind Nash? Suns really didn't have a backup PG for a long time.

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.

5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

You choose to see only the losing part of the record and explain away the winning part. And this then is fair assessment of his work? You are better than this my good man.

He won at an amazing rate with Nash and an assortment of all stars. What he did worked with that roster. However, he was in a unique situation. If Riley came to the Knicks in 91 and expected Mark Jackson to run a showtime offense I don't think he would have been successful.

so why is it a surprise that we are not successful right now without a PG?

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:My math might be wrong ( long day, great craft beer) but I believe D'Antoni has only won 36% of his games when Nash wasn't his point guard. You can come up with some legitimate excuses for part of that record but it spans 5 years. When you consider Boris Diaw's recent interview when he focused on the brilliance of Steve Nash it holds more weight.

Your hate for him has transgresses beyond personal to the level of religion. Do you think MJ didn't coach the Bulls when he was on the floor with them? Stockton? Magic? Heck even Derrick rose does the same thing, this is what great players do.

5 years 36% winning percentage is a significant body of work in my opinion. Also, while I have never liked the hire because I think the philosophy was wrong, I do think management chose to put D'Antoni in a position where he can't be successful. Hate is a very strong word. I can't think of anyone that I hate, I have disagreed fundamentally how D'Antoni approaches coaching and how he wants his team to play. That isn't hate but I desperately want the team to move on. Also, if you asked me if I respected his character and work ethic I would give you a different answer.

You choose to see only the losing part of the record and explain away the winning part. And this then is fair assessment of his work? You are better than this my good man.

Anyway, 36% is par for the course for a Dolan team. It's about what happened for D'antoni and what I would expect with the next coach.